New GS, engine seized. Diary of Rebuild/Testing - LOTS OF PICS!!!!!

[utgunslinger13]

Hello, my name is Nick and I am new to the forum.  About 6-7 years ago I had an 89 GS that I bought while in boxes and used the forum to help me get it back together and running, which I then ***STUPIDLY*** sold within 3 months.  I have recently been fortunate enough to get my hands on another project, so I am back again with questions! 

I recently bought a 1990 GS500 from craigslist which was not running.  The details that I got when I purchased the bike was that it was running ok but needed some carb/idle adjustment, then when the previous owner switched the speedo/tach out, it wouldn't start again after that.  First thing I'm replacing is the battery because it will barely honk the horn or turn the lights on, but my question is where to go after that?  I know the gauges might be a good place to start but could gauges from the wrong model really stop it from starting?




I looked on the parts numbers and the 2000+ have a different part number than 89-99, could that be the problem if they used the newer gauges and didn't wire them correctly?

Thank you for any input. 

Nick Caldwell

[ben2go]

Those look like gauges from an F model.The tach not hooked up will not stop the engine from running.The only difference in tachs is the F model is electric and the original is run by cable.You'll need to check the engine where the cable goes to make sure it has the F model plug where the original tach cable attached.There is a write up on using newer gauges on an older bike.The not running part is probably a loose connection in the head light from when the gauges were changed.If you've pieced a bike together this should be an easy task for you.Also have a local auto parts store charge and check the battery.

[Jay_wolf]

I have that exactly gauge on the 2001 ,. i think its just the upgraded look , when they changed all the plastics , .. Its cable driven on my 2001 ,

[utgunslinger13]

I have replaced the battery, and haven't had a chance to look into the wiring for the new gauges.  I did get the older gauges from the gentleman I bought it from today to compare though.  One other concern is, when I hit the start button, the solinoid clicks, but the engine doesn't turn over.  How do I determine if the engine is seized  or if the starter motor is locked up?

Thanks,

Nick

[Jay_wolf]

Thats a Dead battery.. Not enough Power to turn the Starter Over

[ben2go]

I have replaced the battery, and haven't had a chance to look into the wiring for the new gauges.  I did get the older gauges from the gentleman I bought it from today to compare though.  One other concern is, when I hit the start button, the solinoid clicks, but the engine doesn't turn over.  How do I determine if the engine is seized  or if the starter motor is locked up?

Thanks,

Nick

Sounds like a bad starter relay,starter clutch or possible starter.To check the engine,put the bike on the center stand,place it in 6th gear and try to turn the rear wheel forward.Removing the spark plugs helps relieve the compression making it easier to turn over.

[utgunslinger13]

Thats a Dead battery.. Not enough Power to turn the Starter Over

Battery is brand new, I'm going right now to check if I can turn the wheel in sixth gear.

[utgunslinger13]

Put bike up on centerstand, put into 6th gear, and when trying to turn the tire I could lift the bike almost off its center stand.

This doesn't look good. Sounds like the motor is seized doesn't it?

I pulled out the sparkplugs and this is what I have:


and this nasty bugger:


Any other ways to verify the motor being seized?

[bucks1605]

Did you pull the plugs out before trying to spin the wheel?

[ben2go]

It could still be a bad starter clutch or a bad stator that's lost it's magnets.Read through these.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38758.msg437562#msg437562

I don't have a clue whats happen to the orange colored plug.Never seen that on anything.

[utgunslinger13]

I did try pushing it with it in 5th or 6th gear and once I quit sissy pushing and actually starting RUNNING beside it, the tire did roll until the speed dropped?  Maybe a good sign?  I am now draining the oil and will pull the side cover off soon.  Any tips, or input on checking out the rotor/stator?

Nick

[ben2go]

I did try pushing it with it in 5th or 6th gear and once I quit sissy pushing and actually starting RUNNING beside it, the tire did roll until the speed dropped?  Maybe a good sign?  I am now draining the oil and will pull the side cover off soon.  Any tips, or input on checking out the rotor/stator?

Nick

Look for chipped epoxy that the stator coils and rotor magnets are coated with.Look for loose,cracked,or chipped magnets and stator poles.Here's how to check the electrical side of it.  http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38480.0

[utgunslinger13]

Pics comming soon, but one question.  I tried to rotate the rotor counter-clock wise like the post from Srinath said (this thread http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0) but the bolt felt like it was going to loosen or break!!!!!  I'm loading pics as we speak, but the gear next to the stator in this link http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0 is next to my rotor!

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Nick

[utgunslinger13]

Heres the Rotor, upon turning that center bolt counter-clockwise it started to losen?  I thought it should crank the engine?



and the Stator



Both seem in good condition to me?  I tested the starter and it turned with nothing hooked up to it.  Something else isn't moving causing the bike not to start!

HELP!

[utgunslinger13]

Anyone?

[ben2go]

Sorry.I was away for a bit.Starwalt spun the starter by connecting it directly to the battery.I know it will spin if you connect the starter wire to the positive post and touch a ground wire to the starter case.Might wanna check the threads I posted earlier or contact starwalt about how he did it.If it does spin, it's probably a bad relay.

[utgunslinger13]

I was able to get the starter to spin by reconnecting the back portion of the cover (with the clutch and shifter portion) and with no other gears attached the starter spun freely.  As soon as I put the gear back in to attach it to the gear behind the rotor, it won't spin.  I know the relay is good, and I know the starter motor is good.  Now I need to find out what is stuck from that point.  This might be a case of seized engine.

I tried to spin the rotor using the bolt in the center of the rotor, but when I turned it counter-clockwise (towards the front of the bike) the rotor wouldn't move and it felt as I was loosening the bolt.  Being as I don't know if its left or right hand threads, I was afraid to turn much more as I don't want to break the bolt.  If it is left hand threads, then something is stopping the rotor from spinning while in nuetral and with no brakes applied!

Thanks for all the help so far, but any other tips?  I did find out the bike has been sitting for 6 months, could the pistons be rusted in the sleeves and thats causing it not to spin?

Nick

[ben2go]

It could be condensation caused rust.That could be the orange stuff that's on the plug.Give each cylinder a good squirt of penetrating oil.May have to set over night.The rotor bolt has standard threads,so right tight,left loose.You can remove the small round cover on the other side and try to turn the ignition rotor bolt.With the plugs out and in neutral, it shouldn't be hard to turn by hand.Did you check the starter clutch?It's the double gear set above and behind the rotor just to the right.They fail and can lockup the engine by way of the starter clutch gear drive.

The drive clutch could have come apart.If the clutch lever feels really soft or really stiff,this could be a possibility.I've only hard of it once or twice on a GS.Of course it's under the other cover.If it comes to this get a 99 to 01 SV650S clutch.I have Mac Cycles SV650 friction discs and Barrnet clutch springs.Works like a dream.

[utgunslinger13]

I removed the starter clutch, it spun freely on the rod through the center, and would freely spin backwards with the gear attached behind the rotor.  With that starter clutch removed, I hit the start button and the starter motor spun freely as well.

So we have the following I know are good:
1.) Battery (just replaced)
2.) Starter Relay
3.) Starter Motor
4.) Starter Clutch
5.) Rotor and Stator

I am picking up some WD-40 to spray in the cylinders to see if that will work the pistons free, and I will take off the right side cover to see if I can spin the ignition rotor bolt.  I'm assuming I need to turn it right since its on the other side of the bike (assuming I need to spin it in the direction of the front tires?)? 

Clutch feels fine to me, but any suggestions on testing?

Also, if pushing it in 5th or 6th gear and dropping clutch would spin the tire, how could that happen if something was seized?  Could the clutch slip allowing the tire to spin freely?  How do you suggest checking if the piston is moving?  I've thought about a long screw driver down the spark plug hole while I drop the clutch but am a little nervous with the damage that could cause!

Thanks,

Nick

[beRto]

A summary and some questions:

1. Brand new battery (are you sure it was properly charged?)
2. Solenoid clicks, but bike will not start (relay is stated as "good"; how was this tested?)
edit: I re-read your post and I think you stated that with the the starter gears disconnected, pressing the start button turned the starter motor? If so, this would explain the conclusion that all switches (clutch, sidestand etc.) and relays are good.
3. Removed sparkplugs; one of them appeared rusted.
4. Placed bike on centrestand (with plugs out) and tried to turn rear tire with bike in 6th gear - NO TURN
5. Ran alongside bike (in 6th gear) and dropped clutch - REAR WHEEL TURNS

If you put the bike in neutral, does the rear tire spin freely?
If you pull in the clutch, does the rear tire spin freely?
Now that you have gotten the rear wheel to turn (i.e. item 5), what happens if you repeat step 4?
Shine a flashlight into the spark plug holes and look for rust, broken valves, etc.