New GS, engine seized. Diary of Rebuild/Testing - LOTS OF PICS!!!!!

[DoD#i]

Depends where "relatively inexpensive" falls in your world, to some extent.

Without going shopping to see what one sells for now (mine has not died yet) I paid about $100 for a decent name-brand (green) 4-1/2" angle grinder - with appropriate implements it cuts/grinds metal, masonry, etc - you can get flap discs for sanding - at present I'm abusing the poor thing (dust) by using a dry diamond blade to cut tile (I hates bathroom remodeling, I does) - it runs some mean wire brushes too. Harbor Freight (et al) probably has some horrid knock-off for much less, but that's a crap-shoot in quality. Mine is at least 5 years old (I don't recall precisely) and going strong.

My understanding is that there is a large jump in quality/usefulness between 4" and 4-1/2" grinders.

Of course, it won't fit in the tiniest places where a Dremel is actually better (well, a Foredom is better, but only if you have long-term-relatively inexpensive in mind - the up front cost is steep, but they last forever and work like nothing else electric). In a smaller size you can look at electric die grinders or air die grinders (relatively cheap and _very_ long-lasting _if_ you have the expensive compressor to run them.)

...Safety glasses and hearing protection strongly recommended.

Curiosity got the best of me. $41.22 at amazon...free shipping, even.
Ahh, but that's like a 300 watt motor (G12SS) - mine is 1300W(G12SA), and those still go for about $90 (but are perhaps discontinued) - but will do a lot more work.

[Fry]

I'm planning on cutting out the bottom plates and change the angles a little to center the bolt hole a little more.  Part of the problem is that I have a handheld mask so I'm trying to weld one handed.  They are strong just REALLY UGLY.  I'm going to end up grinding them all down and puttying them up just to look better.

The more you weld then cut to change it the more trouble your going to have and the weaker the metal gets, potentially.

As others have said, try to get some similar sized metals and practice welding on them. You are using a Mig right?

Do something about that helmet also, it's showing up in your welds with the Globs and Splatter well off center of your intended target welding area. plus a bit to much Build Up as well. Perhaps raise the heat up a bit and pull your weld a little quicker. With that being said, the welds I have done on my GS project at times have come out horrible and I have had to grind them down and re-start. You want to make sure your penetrating both metals, not just welding on a nice bead of weld On Top of the metals your joining. I like to use a Mig like a Stick Welder, I'll switch the weld puddle in semi circular motions creating, or trying to create a nice weld that looks like a roll of dimes.

IMHO those Lugs you welded on are to big, I'm telling you, cut out of sheet plate 4 Triangle Ears wit the corners rounded off. Weld them to the inside and outside of each frame stub, the Buell Sub will slot into this, much better looking than a big Piece your currently working with.

Overall, great work, nice determination, and a cool project overall.

[utgunslinger13]

Depends where "relatively inexpensive" falls in your world, to some extent.

Without going shopping to see what one sells for now (mine has not died yet) I paid about $100 for a decent name-brand (green) 4-1/2" angle grinder - with appropriate implements it cuts/grinds metal, masonry, etc - you can get flap discs for sanding - at present I'm abusing the poor thing (dust) by using a dry diamond blade to cut tile (I hates bathroom remodeling, I does) - it runs some mean wire brushes too. Harbor Freight (et al) probably has some horrid knock-off for much less, but that's a crap-shoot in quality. Mine is at least 5 years old (I don't recall precisely) and going strong.

My understanding is that there is a large jump in quality/usefulness between 4" and 4-1/2" grinders.

Of course, it won't fit in the tiniest places where a Dremel is actually better (well, a Foredom is better, but only if you have long-term-relatively inexpensive in mind - the up front cost is steep, but they last forever and work like nothing else electric). In a smaller size you can look at electric die grinders or air die grinders (relatively cheap and _very_ long-lasting _if_ you have the expensive compressor to run them.)

...Safety glasses and hearing protection strongly recommended.

Curiosity got the best of me. $41.22 at amazon...free shipping, even.
Ahh, but that's like a 300 watt motor (G12SS) - mine is 1300W(G12SA), and those still go for about $90 (but are perhaps discontinued) - but will do a lot more work.

I guess for a piece that my only plan to use it would be to smoth out the welds $100 might be a little steep.  I paid 25-30 for the dremel and it worked okay till it just stopped turning on!  I might return it to wal-mart and get a new one lol.  Is there a place that might let me rent something like those angle grinders your talking about?  I know home depot rents tools and I live right next to one.

I'm planning on cutting out the bottom plates and change the angles a little to center the bolt hole a little more.  Part of the problem is that I have a handheld mask so I'm trying to weld one handed.  They are strong just REALLY UGLY.  I'm going to end up grinding them all down and puttying them up just to look better.

The more you weld then cut to change it the more trouble your going to have and the weaker the metal gets, potentially.

As others have said, try to get some similar sized metals and practice welding on them. You are using a Mig right?

Do something about that helmet also, it's showing up in your welds with the Globs and Splatter well off center of your intended target welding area. plus a bit to much Build Up as well. Perhaps raise the heat up a bit and pull your weld a little quicker. With that being said, the welds I have done on my GS project at times have come out horrible and I have had to grind them down and re-start. You want to make sure your penetrating both metals, not just welding on a nice bead of weld On Top of the metals your joining. I like to use a Mig like a Stick Welder, I'll switch the weld puddle in semi circular motions creating, or trying to create a nice weld that looks like a roll of dimes.

IMHO those Lugs you welded on are to big, I'm telling you, cut out of sheet plate 4 Triangle Ears wit the corners rounded off. Weld them to the inside and outside of each frame stub, the Buell Sub will slot into this, much better looking than a big Piece your currently working with.

Overall, great work, nice determination, and a cool project overall.

Yeah before i was just arcing to the metal and letting the puddle build up, but I've been trying different patterns on scrap like everyone suggested and IMO I think I'm now pulling a sweet "roll of dimes" bead (at least much better than the previous welds).  The problem is with just getting engaged money is now tight and I can't justify a new welding mask, and a new angle grinder when I have something that works, just not quite as good. lol

Thanks for all the input!

Nick

[Fry]

Your doing fine, make what you have work as far as tools and technique....With practice comes perfection.

[utgunslinger13]

So I went ahead and bought a cheap angle grinder from wal-mart for $25 today and got into the grinding quite a bit more.

Right side lower:


Left side lower:


Left side lower inside:


Right side upper:


Right side closer view from the outside:


Right side closer view from the inside:





So I'm slowly making progress, I'm just taking my time because I'm so nervous about getting things done RIGHT.  As always, your input is welcomed!!!

[utgunslinger13]

So I've fnially made some progress with the mounts, unfortunately not as quickly as I would like, but I'd rather take my time now than hurry through and be unhappy with the results!

I was finally able to get a real mock up with the new mounts welded and drilled.  It shows I still have some work to do to get it all 100% but I'm getting closer!

Here is the right side of the bike looking at the upper mount, seat, and tank.  The red line is where I plan on cutting to help fit everything back together.




Here is the right side of the bike looking at the lower mount.  This isn't very pleasing aesthetically, but right now I want it strong and later I'll worry about looks.




Here is the left side of the bike showing both mounts and how I had to turn the battery to fit between the mounts.  This hasn't been permanently moved here, but I think it looks to be a great fit and will allow for mounting of electronics and other things if necessary.




Here is a nice rear end shot, still debating on cutting that tail light mount off or just making things easy and using buell tails?




And here is a nice side shot, I think she's starting to take shape!




I'll be getting out of work early tomorrow for meeting a goal so I'm hoping to finish all four mounts and will be looking at adding any extra cross members or strength anywhere possible.  Let me know what you guys think!

Thanks,

Nick

[utgunslinger13]

Morning bump just because I think it was to late for anyone to see it last night!

[Fry]

Great Work.

[utgunslinger13]

Thank you!  One of my main concerns is that with the batter turned that I won't be able to put in a cross bar to tie the two upper mounts together and the two lower mounts together.  If I were to put the battery in normal orientation, the bolts for the two upper subframe mounts hit the battery and you can not get a nut in there.  The only solution I can think of, short of buying a smaller battery, is to turn the battery back to the stock orientation then lower the mounting portion 2 inches.

So if I were to lower the battery to clear the bolts, would I have to worry about any rubbing from bottoming out the suspension?  It doesn't seem that it should rub, but does anyone have any input on how low I could move the battery?  Or perhaps how much the swing arm will move up under load?

Thanks,

Nick

[Fry]

Your already half way there, and have welding skills so...Cut the battery box out/unbolt it, ditch the stock airbox for a K+N Lunchbox, and weld the batt right on the cross tube for the upper shock mount.

[utgunslinger13]

I agree that would work perfect but for now I went ahead and just lowered the battery mount 2.5 inches or so.  I was afraid to move it towards the front in prep for a k&n lunchbox without having one to measure the clearances so I just lowered it.  I am still alittle worried about the rubbing issue if I were to bottom out, but I can move it later if need be.  Its late and I don't have pictures loaded, but I'll get some tomorrow for everyone.

Thanks,

Nick

[Fry]

You mentioned that with the Batt. in the Stk. location you couldn't get a nut on the back of the bolt well how about using a Button Headed Allen Bolt (Thin profile of the head of the bolt), and send it through from the opposite direction and have a nut on the outside? Then you can get one of those fancy little decorative caps to hide the ugly looking nut on the outside.

Just a thought.

[yamahonkawazuki]

You mentioned that with the Batt. in the Stk. location you couldn't get a nut on the back of the bolt well how about using a Button Headed Allen Bolt (Thin profile of the head of the bolt), and send it through from the opposite direction and have a nut on the outside? Then you can get one of those fancy little decorative caps to hide the ugly looking nut on the outside.

Just a thought.

+ 1

[utgunslinger13]

Due to the battery "breather?" (the piece that the sticker points to next to the neg term of the battery) the battery would not fit between the two upper mounts, let alone allow anything to come through the mounting holes.  So I went ahead and lowered the stock mounting location about 2-2.5 inches.  Now it will sit in and no clearance issues with the battery.


View from the rear tire:




View from the right side:




Another view from the right side showing a little better the clearance I'm working with between the battery and tire:




Here are the bolts and nuts I chose to use, with the battery lowered there are no longer clearance issues:




And here is an almost final shot!  Still debating some cross member bars for strength but haven't fully decided yet:





As always, your input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Nick

[Fry]

Please tell me those are Grade 8 Nuts and Bolts....

Otherwise great work, ingenuity and perseverance.

[birdman]

+1 with locking nuts for final installation. 

ALERT!
It looks like you have a pretty good mount but after looking how you did the battery box, I would still worry about the lateral structure strength you mentioned earlier.  The drop-down you made looks to only be tack welded.
Now look at the factory brace that is there that you pictured prior to cutting it.


The factory brace is a seriously important structural support from what I see.  It keeps the whole rearend from swinging side to side so it is wise to be concerned.  Now that you have the box put in I can see what you are talking about.

I would tie the bottoms of the new mounting ears here with a piece of plate ( or even a piece of 90 angle to box the bottom and rear faces) and fully weld all seams including the battery box. Look for more ways to make it stronger.  I don't see a clearance issue really that close to the pivot point of the suspension.


Hope this makes sense and is helpful.

Birdman

[utgunslinger13]

Please tell me those are Grade 8 Nuts and Bolts....

Otherwise great work, ingenuity and perseverance.

I know that is a concern and to be honest with you I have no clue how to tell the grade of the bolt.  I got these from Home Depot as I knew they would fit for the mock up.  Here is a picture of the bolt if you can tell me if I need to upgrade or not?

[beRto]

I know that is a concern and to be honest with you I have no clue how to tell the grade of the bolt.

Those appear to be Grade 5 bolts:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx
http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp

[utgunslinger13]

+1 with locking nuts for final installation. 

ALERT!
It looks like you have a pretty good mount but after looking how you did the battery box, I would still worry about the lateral structure strength you mentioned earlier.  The drop-down you made looks to only be tack welded. The factory brace is a seriously important structural support from what I see.  It keeps the whole rearend from swinging side to side so it is wise to be concerned.  Now that you have the box put in I can see what you are talking about.

That picture was taken after a long night of working and it not being completely done.  I finished the weld this morning and grinded it down.  The tack was just to get it in to help me eyeball the fit.

I would tie the bottoms of the new mounting ears here with a piece of plate ( or even a piece of 90 angle to box the bottom and rear faces) and fully weld all seams including the battery box. Look for more ways to make it stronger.  I don't see a clearance issue really that close to the pivot point of the suspension.

Hope this makes sense and is helpful.

Birdman

It makes perfect sense, I have a few options for braces I was looking at due to clearance issues and problems removing the battery.

I have 3 options for the lower mount that I can see (these are just being held in place by my fiance and in no way are actually mounted to the bike!):

Option 1, flat bar across the back portion of the ear:




Option 2, 90 degree piece across the bottom, this would just reinforce my worries of clearance with the tire:




Option 3, 90 degree piece across the top with a cut out to clear the battery.  If I choose this method, I plan some gussets on the inside where it opens up for the battery cutout:




The way I see it, due to needing access to the battery and clearance to remove it, I only have 1 option for a brace on the upper mounts:

Flat bar across the top, 90 degree won't work without a cutout to clear battery removal:








Please anyone chime in because I have NO EXPERIENCE with this sort of things and would love a consensus on here about the best option.

Thank you!

Nick

[utgunslinger13]

I know that is a concern and to be honest with you I have no clue how to tell the grade of the bolt.

Those appear to be Grade 5 bolts:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx
http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp

Will a grade 5 bolt need to be replaced?  The strengths and numbers mean nothing to me  lol