Who are you voting for, for President?

[quiktaco]

Every time that something is posted, the liberal backers keep saying that it has no relevance.  Please explain to us HOW it has no relevance.

Osama: Yes, that is right I am running for president of the United States of America
Reporter: Really?!? Aren't you a Terrorist?
Osama: Well...yes, but that doesn't have relevance.  That's in my past, and that's just what it is...my past.
Reporter: Oh, okay.  Well in that case...    Say, where do you stand on the issues?
Osama: I've always supported the young in my home town.  I've donated millions to the terrorist training camps to help these young Muslims see the light.
Reporter: Wow! Millions?!?  Wait, did you say terrorist training camps?
Osama: Yes...they are my people.  I've invested so much time and effort in being a Community Organizer, and I feel I've really made a difference in the community.
Reporter: Yeah, I guess you have made a difference.  Where do you stand on Abortion?
Osama:  That's not a fair question!  I haven't performed an abortion in years...  Well, back in the day, I'd usually just stand on the head...that would usually get the job done.
Reporter:  Isn't that a little inhumane?
Osama:  No, not at all.  You see, this was only after a botched abortion attempt earlier in the pregnancy.
Reporter:  Got it.  Tell me, where are you getting the money for your campaign?
Osama:  Well I'll tell you where I'm not getting it;  From Pakistan and Afghanistan.  They're too pushy for their agenda's.
Reporter:  I have a letter here that states that you've received over 450,000 dollars from the people of Afghanistan.
Osama:  Uh u u u, well, you see here,  The e e, this money is from the people.  It's not from these countries. 
Reporter:  Hey, is that a bomb around your waist?
Osama:  Yes, but that's not relevant.  It has nothing to do with this campaign.  Next question please.

[quiktaco]

I'm not an English Professor, I'm an Artist.  Where does it say in this thread's rules that you can't cut and paste?  Did I say I was going to write everything in my own words?  If I were to do that, then you'd just say it's all bs, cause I wrote it.  This is still attacking, you guys really don't know how not to attack, do you?  Keep this a debate.  I present issues, you comment on them, I comment back.  You present issues, I comment on them, you comment back.  That's how it works.

REFUTE SOMETHING.  That's what this is all about.  It's a debate.  These are things that I have found that bring a different light to Obama.  IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH IN THESE STATEMENTS, THEN REFUTE IT.  DON'T SAY THAT IT'S A WASTE OF TIME!  It's only a waste of time on your end, cause maybe these statements have a lot of relevance and you don't know how to refute them.  Is that what it is?

[jserio]

I love YOU 

[quiktaco]

I love YOU 

K, that's just childish.  Please leave this thread.

[jserio]

i will not leave this thread!!! 

[quiktaco]

Then please contribute.  This thread has been on the edge of the TF since it began.  It's very informative and people are enjoying reading and following it, so please don't be childish.  It's fine if you want to contribute.

[trumpetguy]

Reporter: Yeah, I guess you have made a difference.  Where do you stand on Abortion?
Osama:  That's not a fair question!  I haven't performed an abortion in years...  Well, back in the day, I'd usually just stand on the head...that would usually get the job done.
Reporter:  Isn't that a little inhumane?
Osama:  No, not at all.  You see, this was only after a botched abortion attempt earlier in the pregnancy.

And you call OTHER people childish?  Get real, QT.  How childish is this kind of garbage ^ ^ ^ ?

Your posts do not concern issues, they usually concern bizarre accusations, and often from some off-the-wall smear website.  You want to debate issues and where Obama or McCain stand on those issues, fine, but enough with the ridiculous smears.

[jserio]

i have contributed thank you. all i see lately is a bunch of he said she said. one poster saying obama is bad, the other saying no, he's good. there seems to be no real debate here. nothing is being refuted with any kind of evidence. it's all hearsay. one poster refuses to answer a post because it would "waste their time". how are we gonna talk about things if there is no talking? my comment, "I love YOU" was my way of saying that it seems this thread has degenerated into a schoolyard "your momma" argument. seriously. lets talk about where each candidate stands on the issues. and i'm sick of hearing, "oh, but that info is from a left-wing site or a right-wing site". grow some f%$king balls people. become AMERICANS not democrats or republicans, liberals or conservatives, left or right.

[quiktaco]

That was just something to show how ridiculous it is to not look at the person as a whole.  To discount the rest of the persons life would be voting for an anonymous person.

My posts do concern all types of issues.  You just avoid them.  There are also topics about the kind of man he is.  Also things about what he's lied about in his past, like having student loads for Harvard, or his life changing article that he read in a magazine.

If one looks at Obama's voting history in the past, then you will see where he stands on issues.  Don't go by what he's saying right now, because it's completely different.  He's always been apposed to guns, now he's saying that he never said that, and that he thinks self defense guns are fine, and hunting guns are fine, but if you look at what he's voted for, then he's wanted to ban all guns.

Look at his voting history, not his propaganda ads.

[quiktaco]

i have contributed thank you. all i see lately is a bunch of he said she said. one poster saying obama is bad, the other saying no, he's good. there seems to be no real debate here. nothing is being refuted with any kind of evidence. it's all hearsay. one poster refuses to answer a post because it would "waste their time". how are we gonna talk about things if there is no talking? my comment, "I love YOU" was my way of saying that it seems this thread has degenerated into a schoolyard "your momma" argument. seriously. lets talk about where each candidate stands on the issues. and i'm sick of hearing, "oh, but that info is from a left-wing site or a right-wing site". grow some f%$king balls people. become AMERICANS not democrats or republicans, liberals or conservatives, left or right.

I know you've contributed, but the comments were out of line in the context they were presented.  How you describe it here is fine, and I understand what you are saying.

You are right, nothing is being refuted, however I do give lots of evidence along with my posts.  If that evidence gets refuted, then that's fine, but no one will know if it's bad evidence unless someone comes back with something to say that it is.

I've given so much information here, and it seems to be just passed by like no one really cares.  This information isn't just made up crap.  These are actual topics that are out there, and real things that people aren't seeing in the media.  Please take that long post that I posted and refute some topics that you think are false, or without proof.

[jserio]

i never said i thought what you were posting was false. i'm not voting for obama. and it has nothing to do with anything you've posted here. i made up my mind at the beginning of the primaries that i wasn't voting for him. in my mind, the words coming from his mouth sounded nice but they have a false ring to my ears. my dad always told me if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. obama reminds me of the guys running for class president in highschool. smart, educated people. smooth talkers and able to work a crowd. problem was, they'd say they were gonna do all this stuff but in reality, they couldn't. class president is like a figurehead, can't change much if anything. now, i'm not saying our president is a figure head, but he doesn't have final say in alot of matters. we have checks and balances (that i feel we need) to ensure no one branch of the govt gets too big for their britches. (sadly, i think the entire govt is too "big".)

[quiktaco]

Thanks Jserio, you are very right.  I just didn't want this to be thrown to the TF after 23 pages.

He does seem too good to be true.  If everything he were saying were true, then he'd be the best thing since sliced HDTV hotdog buns.  However, he hasn't stood firm on almost any issue since he started running.

Look at the war, economy, abortion, gun control, health care, social programs, you name it.  He has moved so far to the right from where his voting record stands.  The words he speaks are of a moderate Democrat.  The votes that he casts are of a far left Socialist.

He's two different people, and the media doesn't care to point out these things, they're too busy having tingling in their pants from him.

[jserio]

the media is never a "great" source for information. i'm sick of turning on the news and hearing bout this person's dead, that person is in jail, this politician had an affair, i don't know how many houses i have, i can't remember what my pastor said, the cowboys lost to the redskins so the sky is falling in dallas, the economy is in trouble, oil prices rise, oil company rakes in huge profit, consumer continues to take it in the ass(maybe they'll have ky available next time) etc, etc....    

[Cal76]

That has kind of been my point from the begining.  Both sides will be able to find trash and even the supposed reputable sources have become trashy.  I really try to base my opinions on my beliefs and what I have personally heard the cantidates say.  And when I say "personally heard what the cantidates say", I am speaking of an entire interview and not just sound bites.  Out of context, anyone can say anything, but the conversation as a whole means two different things.  Honestly, I have attempted to debate in  the true fasion of the word and I get the same things over and over.  I get hearsay, sound bites, other people's opinions, and pages on top of pages of "he said this, but what he meant was this" 

I would love to debate issues.  I do believe his life, past and present are relevant.  I do not, however, feel it is necessary to read every agenda seeking web page in order to base my opinion.  The issue is the economy.  The issue is Iraq.  An issue that has been forgoten in this election is education.  I was given the privalege of tutoring freshmen, sophmore and junior students in different math and engineering courses this past year and OMG.  Our high school students are graduating without a minimal education.  I literaly had to teach a girl what a number line was and she said she had good grades in high school.  No child left behind is a joke and we, at present, doing an awesome job of making our children idiots. 

I will not comment again on Obama's religion or lack of because I do not care.  His past is relevant, but his religion(in this country we have a freedom of by the way) and hearsay, is not.

The US is my home and I am worried about what is happening to it right now.  And whats happening to the US has nothing to do with any of the points anyone has brought up about Obama.  How about we shift this thread from a Obama bashing sermon to why McCain would do good.  If you want to change my mind, try telling me why I should vote for McCain as opposed to why I should not vote for Obama.  Go figure?

Got to go see Palin make a horses ass out of herself   JK  I hope she does great, but loses of course.

[Cal76]

Oh well, she didn't do bad at all.  I definately believe Biden won the debate, but I do not thing she did a bad job.  In fact, I believe she could have restored her image, not much help to McCain, but she did herself some good.  Besides the whole not answering questions that were directly answered thing.  It was a smart move to go back to her bread and butter topic, energy, when she did not understand a question.  Over all, she did worlds better than in the Couric interview and much better than I expected.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Reporter: Yeah, I guess you have made a difference.  Where do you stand on Abortion?
Osama:  That's not a fair question!  I haven't performed an abortion in years...  Well, back in the day, I'd usually just stand on the head...that would usually get the job done.
Reporter:  Isn't that a little inhumane?
Osama:  No, not at all.  You see, this was only after a botched abortion attempt earlier in the pregnancy.

And you call OTHER people childish?  Get real, QT.  How childish is this kind of garbage ^ ^ ^ ?

Your posts do not concern issues, they usually concern bizarre accusations, and often from some off-the-wall smear website.  You want to debate issues and where Obama or McCain stand on those issues, fine, but enough with the ridiculous smears.

Cmon TG dont make me smack you upside the head with a doobie, this was what appeared to be sarasm or humour or somethign 

[yamahonkawazuki]

Thanks Jserio, you are very right.  I just didn't want this to be thrown to the TF after 23 pages.

He does seem too good to be true.  If everything he were saying were true, then he'd be the best thing since sliced HDTV hotdog buns.  However, he hasn't stood firm on almost any issue since he started running.

Look at the war, economy, abortion, gun control, health care, social programs, you name it.  He has moved so far to the right from where his voting record stands.  The words he speaks are of a moderate Democrat.  The votes that he casts are of a far left Socialist.

He's two different people, and the media doesn't care to point out these things, they're too busy having tingling in their pants from him.

LOL he hardly has a voting record. i cannot remember which thread it was in, but its here somewhere, BUT hes been on the campaign trail more tehn senate chambers, and his voting record reflects as such. someone said, well he has been runnign for president. and im thinking BUT hes being paid to be a senator. , so in essence, hes being paid for not showing up to work

[pkhoff]

Here is the script from a radio ad that is running in my area.

SCRIPT – "Defend":

Barack Obama: I'm Barack Obama, candidate for president, and I approved this message.

Ray Schoenke: This is Ray Schoenke. I played football with the Washington Redskins. Now I'm president of the American Hunters and Shooters Association. It's important to me that our next President protects our Second Amendment rights to own guns and defend ourselves.

Barack Obama and John McCain will both make sure we can keep our guns.

But what about keeping our jobs?

Barack's got a real plan that invests in creating jobs here at home and cuts taxes a thousand bucks for working families.

John McCain?

I saw a lot of cheap shots in my day...

But McCain's false attacks on Obama are just a fake to hide the ball. His plan sells out American workers.

McCain will keep giving tax breaks to companies that ship our jobs overseas.

And he'll look the other way while China breaks our trade deals.

It's the same old Bush playbook.

Look, when the coach loses eight years in a row, you don't bring him back for a ninth season!

We just can't afford more of the same.

Paid for by Obama for America.

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

This ad goes to show the gross dishonesty of Obama.

The first part about Obama being pro gun is a load of crap. This "American Hunters and Shooters Association" is a group of anti-gunners. The people behind this organization read like who's who of the gun ban crowd.

Kind of like the KKK forming a group called the National Colored People's Association.

[quiktaco]

I would love to debate issues.  I do believe his life, past and present are relevant.  I do not, however, feel it is necessary to read every agenda seeking web page in order to base my opinion.  The issue is the economy.  The issue is Iraq.  An issue that has been forgoten in this election is education.  I was given the privalege of tutoring freshmen, sophmore and junior students in different math and engineering courses this past year and OMG.  Our high school students are graduating without a minimal education.  I literaly had to teach a girl what a number line was and she said she had good grades in high school.  No child left behind is a joke and we, at present, doing an awesome job of making our children idiots. 

I will not comment again on Obama's religion or lack of because I do not care.  His past is relevant, but his religion(in this country we have a freedom of by the way) and hearsay, is not.

I think religion got too much hype once people found out what my religion was (on this thread anyways).  I don't care what religion he is, I would prefer mine of course, but it is correct, it doesn't affect the presidency.  However, it's not specifically the 'religion' of his religion that concerns me.  It's the racism that stems from that specific religion, and the extreme far left wing slant...You've got to admit, even Marxism (what that religion is based off of) is a little too far left for even most of you liberals here.  If the religion were just a religion, and not something bases off of James Cones teachings about social experience, then I would say whatever.  But it does play a major role in what he thinks because of this thing, which should really be more of an hour long seminar once a week instead of a religion.

I do think it's a good idea to listen to the actual people, but you can't stop there either.  You must compare this to their voting record.  That will tell where they really stand on issues.  Anyone can lie, and right now, Obama is doing it a lot.  He isn't the man that he was 6 months ago.  Not by what he's been saying and doing.

6 Months ago -
• With his church
• Proud of his Pastor/Friend/Mentor
• Anti-Gun
• Socialized Health Care
• Supported war - wants to increase in Afghanistan, and wouldn't be apposed to nuking Iran
• Helps every black person he could find and gives them tons of stuff (but not a job)

Now -
• Left his Church
• Never new this pastor was like this, now shuns him
• Pro-gun...I believe in gun control...yeah, use both hands
• ton less socialized of a health care system.  Even less than what Hillary was planning
• Never supported the war
• Helps everyone and is going to make millions of jobs so there's a surplus and even homeless people will work.

Look at all this.  He's not the same person.  When he gets in office, he's going to be the person he was 6 months ago, not the person he is now.  That's what his votes say, and that's where he'll stand.

And guess what guys, it's the dems that want to do the bail outs...it didn't pass the house vote because of the republicans.  Even being a big business, they want to give money to everyone, cause that's how they'll get more money in their pockets.

The Economy is going down because we're giving money to the poor instead of giving jobs and job training to the poor.  it makes too much since.  If they work for it, and don't need government money anymore, then the economy gets better.  Make programs that don't work, and never actually Help the people, just feed them or whatever, and the economy will die.

[bettingpython]

The media is not a good source since the objectivity of all media has gone out the window, the liberal left controlled media has openly shown their support for Obama.

Thanks but no thanks, I have looked at voting history and past performance says Obam is saying what the public wants to hear.

Speaking of voting for the first time in a very long time though I am voting for McCain for president our district 1 congressman John Sullivan will not be getting my vote. I will vote for the democrat who is opposing him since chose to ignore repeated e-mails from a large portion of his constituency and voted for the 700 billion dollar bail out.