Who are you voting for, for President?

[yamahonkawazuki]

What about Islam during the crusades?  They got slaughtered.  Sure they were combatant, but you would be too if a bunch of fat foreigners were trampling all over your land and murdering/raping your family in the pursuit of a religious icon.

i know terry, everyone seems to think christianity is the ONLY violent religion out there. i disagree. the crusades were one example, of either side not adhering to its teachings or its god. radical sects were to blame for that. essentially the one percenters 

[yamahonkawazuki]

I'm a right-wing, anti-illegal, pro-life, gun owning, straight, white, college educated, politically informed, conservative, Christian male.  Liberals hate me, and Muslims want to kill me.

I don't hate you.  I just find you very self-righteous and incredibly misguided.  The only things I hate are 1)  laws based on someone else's religion being imposed on me, and 2) lies.

btw TG no need to HATE. hate is a very negative word. lol, i more prefer dislike. but in essence i hate no one or nothign. i dislike however close minded people of all political persuasions. close minded people of all genders, races, and such. ( jsut my thoughts, do as you will . here have an e-beer 

[shiznizbiz]

so me boss tells me that obama cant produce papers saying hes a citizen, somethign about conflicting stories of birth country and citizenship stuff...any word on this from anyone?

[yamahonkawazuki]

so me boss tells me that obama cant produce papers saying hes a citizen, somethign about conflicting stories of birth country and citizenship stuff...any word on this from anyone?

ive heard this myself, and if it is true, then weve got a problem. now most on tehleft will say this is a RW propaganda piece. but id like to see whassup. or a suit filed if need be

[shiznizbiz]

*disclaimer, the following is just idiotic rambling that bears no real insight to the opinion of the poster, its just a what if? style post with goofy satiristic not so humorous humor*
Yeah Id like to know for sure.  IT would suck for so many people to want him as president if he isnt even qualified to begin with. rules are rules. 
If he isnt a citizen, what was going through his head when he was younger?  I want to be the first president of the US that isnt a citizen. obama, not a citizen, tryign to take over the country...oh nos son!  if he wins, and hes a terrorist, were f%&ked.  lmao.  They will rebuild him, make him stronger, faster, smarter, more american. his mission objective, to become president. 

[yamahonkawazuki]

okay volvo sniffer, drugs are bad mmmkay 

[quiktaco]

First, I don't care if he's a Muslim or a Christian or an Atheist.  I don't think any of those make one a better leader.  So whether he is or is not a Muslim is a useless question.  If you want to get real picky about violent religions, you'd better look at the actions of those who call themselves Christian (and have throughout history).  Bush claims to be Christian.  So does Fred Phelps.  So does duck Cheney.  So does Tony Alamo.  Does that make them fine upstanding people?

The reason you should care that he may be a Muslim, is because in the Koran, it specifically says to kill Infidels...that means you, too.  Anyone who does not believe in Islam.  It's not a matter of who could lead better.  Hitler led the masses very well.  So did Stalin, and Mussolini, but they are all not good for the country.  Technically Black Muslims aren't even Muslim, because the 'Mohamed' that they say is a prophet, is a different 'Mohamed' that true Islam says is a prophet, but they feel that they can more easily convert them, so they allow it.
You are pulling out specific people out of Christianity and saying they are violent.  Christianity is not violent as a religion.  It does call for war, and protection at some times, but in general preaches to love one another.  The religion of Islam as a whole is violent.  Those who claim that it is a peaceful religion, either have never read the Koran, or don't truly practice being a Muslim.  It calls for all Muslims to kill anyone who is not Muslim, there's no way around it.

Second, what does it take to become a Christian, and what facts do you possess which tell you that Obama is not and was not always a Christian?  What religion do children truly have?  If you were raised by atheist parents, were you an atheist until the age at which you began to believe?  Does it matter?

It takes believing in Christ, the son of God, birthed by Mary, who died for our sins.
The proof that I have that he is not Christian, is that he/his church believes that Christ and God are black.  Christ was a Jew, born to a Jewish Mother.  HE'S NOT BLACK.  That single fact, says that he's not a Christian, because he doesn't believe in the true Christ.
It's true that you will probably believe what your parents believe, but you will during your life time be exposed to the truth.  Once exposed, you either reject it or believe it.  That's when the person has accountability.  If you are never exposed to the truth, then you have no accountability, and you are judged like an innocent child.

Third, in the last eight years, anyone comparing the actions of Bush to the actions of Hitler (which I find a VERY valid comparison) was castigated wildly.  Yet the same people now compare Obama AS A PERSON to Hitler.  I don't expect consistency from angry people, but this is a little over the top.

Hitler was Socialist.  Obama is Socialist.  Bush is not.  Hitler commanded a crowd of tens of thousands based on emotion.  Obama commands a crowd of tens of thousands based on emotion.  Bush doesn't use emotion to talk to a crowd.
If you had read pretty much anything that I had wrote about the comparison, then you'd see all the similarities.  Previously, I never called bush or defended bush from being called Hitler.  So, I'm not the same people, sorry.

Fourth, whose handwriting is on the form you posted?  Someone at the school?  Obama's father or stepfather? Obama himself?  How old was he at the time?  It is utterly meaningless in and of itself yet you take it as fact because you desire to believe that the man about to be elected President (over your strenuous objections) is evil.

I'm assuming it's either his step-father's or a registrar.  This is for his Catholic School enrollment.  It's not the fact that he has Islam listed, but it's the fact that he so conveniently left the fact that he attended Catholic School, as a Muslim out, when telling the American people about his schooling.  Whether he believed it or not, if your father is Muslim, then you are automatically Muslim.  His campaign says that he was never a Muslim...which is shown incorrect.

Fifth, why do Obama's alleged lies bother you but McCain's obvious continuous pandering flip flops NOT bother you?

Mostly because Obama's lies are a lot more dangerous to the world.  If he is hiding the fact that he's Muslim, then America will change dramatically, Israel will be bombed, Western Civilization will crumble.  These are highly likely if the most powerful man in the world, secretly wants to kill all Infidels.

so me boss tells me that obama cant produce papers saying hes a citizen, somethign about conflicting stories of birth country and citizenship stuff...any word on this from anyone?

This has been brought up, but has been hit down by the Liberals...unjustly at that however.
The issues about this concern Obama's birth certificate.  There are about 6 discrepancies with his, compared to other Hawaiian birth certificates at the time.  The record number is blacked out, so it can't be tracked, there is no seal that shows it's certified, there's a few of the documents words that differ from the others, Obama's has no creases, and they supposedly were always folded and mailed. And a couple more
I understand that some of these things are probably nothing, but when there is an authenticity issue, then all these things matter.  I really don't know if he is a natural citizen or not...I've kind of given that front up, because there are so many other reasons he should be the president, other than the fact that he may not even be eligible.  Also, if Hillary really wanted to be President, then she'd have her staff going through Hawaii's records like mad, trying to disqualify him.  So with all that, I'm sure he is, but I'd still like some proof.

[trumpetguy]

Christianity is not violent as a religion.  It does call for war, and protection at some times, but in general preaches to love one another.  The religion of Islam as a whole is violent.  Those who claim that it is a peaceful religion, either have never read the Koran, or don't truly practice being a Muslim.  It calls for all Muslims to kill anyone who is not Muslim, there's no way around it.

So Christianity can be judged in general terms, but not Islam?  Do you see a flaw in your thinking?  I do.  There are some violent Christians.  There are some violent Muslims.  End of story.  Every word in the Bible is not taken literally by anyone.  Do you eat pork?  Do you associate with women during their menstrual cycle?  There are some wacko things in there which we conveniently ignore.  But we sure point out every flaw in the Quran.

It takes believing in Christ, the son of God, birthed by Mary, who died for our sins.

So it doesn't take attending the "right" church?  In the next sentence you say it does.  You have NO basis to judge Obama's claim to Christianity.  None -- Zero -- Zippo.  You're spouting crap, of which none matters.

Hitler was Socialist.  Obama is Socialist.  Bush is not.

Hitler called his party socialist, but was not a socialist nor a communist - look at his economy.  Obama is not a socialist.  He is a democrat.  If you look only at his economic policies in the last three weeks Bush IS a socialist.  But fortunately, the world is NOT black and white.  Bush has fascist tendencies (as does McCain) but that does not mean he is a fascist.  Only a simpleton would say such a thing.

Once exposed, you either reject it or believe it.  That's when the person has accountability.

Whether he believed it or not, if your father is Muslim, then you are automatically Muslim.

If Obama never was a practicing Muslim (his father was an atheist) then he can truthfully say he was never a Muslim.  How do YOU f*cking know?  You don't.  That doesn't stop you from saying it...

Mostly because Obama's lies are a lot more dangerous to the world.  If he is hiding the fact that he's Muslim, then America will change dramatically, Israel will be bombed, Western Civilization will crumble.  These are highly likely if the most powerful man in the world, secretly wants to kill all Infidels.

Let's talk in a couple of years. You'll have some explaining to do.  Israel may be bombed -- they have been under people you claim are Christians -- but I can't wait to see if Western Civilization crumbles because America elects Barrack Obama.  THEN will you stop with the smears?

[cafeboy]

Hey, Check out this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA9D9_x9bgY

[quiktaco]

Christianity is not violent as a religion.  It does call for war, and protection at some times, but in general preaches to love one another.  The religion of Islam as a whole is violent.  Those who claim that it is a peaceful religion, either have never read the Koran, or don't truly practice being a Muslim.  It calls for all Muslims to kill anyone who is not Muslim, there's no way around it.

So Christianity can be judged in general terms, but not Islam?  Do you see a flaw in your thinking?  I do.  There are some violent Christians.  There are some violent Muslims.  End of story.  Every word in the Bible is not taken literally by anyone.  Do you eat pork?  Do you associate with women during their menstrual cycle?  There are some wacko things in there which we conveniently ignore.  But we sure point out every flaw in the Quran.

It takes believing in Christ, the son of God, birthed by Mary, who died for our sins.

So it doesn't take attending the "right" church?  In the next sentence you say it does.  You have NO basis to judge Obama's claim to Christianity.  None -- Zero -- Zippo.  You're spouting crap, of which none matters.

Hitler was Socialist.  Obama is Socialist.  Bush is not.

Hitler called his party socialist, but was not a socialist nor a communist - look at his economy.  Obama is not a socialist.  He is a democrat.  If you look only at his economic policies in the last three weeks Bush IS a socialist.  But fortunately, the world is NOT black and white.  Bush has fascist tendencies (as does McCain) but that does not mean he is a fascist.  Only a simpleton would say such a thing.

Once exposed, you either reject it or believe it.  That's when the person has accountability.

Whether he believed it or not, if your father is Muslim, then you are automatically Muslim.

If Obama never was a practicing Muslim (his father was an atheist) then he can truthfully say he was never a Muslim.  How do YOU f*cking know?  You don't.  That doesn't stop you from saying it...

Mostly because Obama's lies are a lot more dangerous to the world.  If he is hiding the fact that he's Muslim, then America will change dramatically, Israel will be bombed, Western Civilization will crumble.  These are highly likely if the most powerful man in the world, secretly wants to kill all Infidels.

Let's talk in a couple of years. You'll have some explaining to do.  Israel may be bombed -- they have been under people you claim are Christians -- but I can't wait to see if Western Civilization crumbles because America elects Barrack Obama.  THEN will you stop with the smears?

Islam tells to kill anyone who is not Islam.  Christianity does not condone such violence.  End of story.

Obama believes in a Black Christ.  Not Christian Christ, therefor not Christian. 

Obama is too a Socialist.  He's more liberal on issues than open Socialists.  How can he not be a socialist if this is true?
"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed."
-Adolf Hitler

His Grandfather was Muslim.  His father, he says is Atheist, but he practices what Muslims practice, including Polygamy, and other things.  Because he does admit that his Grandfather was Muslim, then that makes his father Muslim, which makes him Muslim.  Not to mention the fact that it's on enrollment records for school.  He was raised as a Muslim.  If he wasn't, then his religion wouldn't be listed as Islam.

I'm not saying it will for sure crumble.  And it may not be extremely soon, but we are not far behind England on much, and England is currently thinking about allowing Shariah law to take place, which goes around English courts.


You'll believe what you want to believe, because you don't look at ANY of the evidance that points to ANY of Obama's faults.  You don't care if he is Muslim and wants to kill you.  You don't care if he is a Socialist.  You don't care about your freedoms.  You don't care if you are happy in life or not, you just want whatever the government wants.

The day of individual happiness has passed.
Adolf Hitler

The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force.
Adolf Hitler

You are a sheep, that is blinded by meaningless rhetoric, and lies.  You attack me, saying that I'm blinded, but have not basis for that, but I do have basis going the other way.

[frankieG]

i think all religions have their violent factions or persons whom take the terrorist route.  however i think it is human nature, as well with most if not all animals, to fight over resources and power.  so a end to conflict is just a dream.

[quiktaco]

i think all religions have their violent factions or persons whom take the terrorist route.  however i think it is human nature, as well with most if not all animals, to fight over resources and power.  so a end to conflict is just a dream.

Well said. Every religious group has those who are extremists.  The difference comes, however, when the religion itself is telling the people to be extremists.

Hitler claimed to be Christian.  KKK says they're Christian.

However, these people are acting on individual beliefs, and not those of the religion itself.  They are extremists who also happen to be Christian (or call themselves Christian, because they are not acting Christian)

On the other hand, the extremists of Islam (or what it says in the Koran that all Muslims should do), act directly in accordance with their religion.

[cafeboy]

i think all religions have their violent factions or persons whom take the terrorist route.  however i think it is human nature, as well with most if not all animals, to fight over resources and power.  so a end to conflict is just a dream.

Well I have to say +1 Frankie

[jserio]

you know, this whole thread has been nothing but one person/persons bashing obaman and then others defending him. let's turn this around. i normally don't "attack" people on this board, but for the sake of discusion and "enlightenment" i'm going to call out MR. QUICK TACO....  don't take any offense, just present your agrument sir. you have been bellowing about how bad obama is. now, tell me, why is mccain so great? and please, don't say mccain is so great just because obama is so bad in your eyes. will mccain contine the failed policies of Bush? will mccain work to keep our jobs here in the states? will mccain work to solve our immigration woes? will mccain work to regulate the economy better? (recent credit crisis etc). foreign policy? education?

[frankieG]

religion and politics...two things that people get very emotional about...please do not take offence.

[bettingpython]

religion and politics...two things that people get very emotional about...please do not take offence.

Religion and politics are the 2 subjects which should never be discussed in polite company. Other than the occasional right wing humorous jab at the left I have pretty much given up discussion of politics with people whom I have a friendly aquantance with.

[jserio]

my father and i can and do discuss politics at length at times. there are items we agree on and some we do not. we just agree to disagree. 

[quiktaco]

you know, this whole thread has been nothing but one person/persons bashing obaman and then others defending him. let's turn this around. i normally don't "attack" people on this board, but for the sake of discusion and "enlightenment" i'm going to call out MR. QUICK TACO....  don't take any offense, just present your agrument sir. you have been bellowing about how bad obama is. now, tell me, why is mccain so great? and please, don't say mccain is so great just because obama is so bad in your eyes. will mccain contine the failed policies of Bush? will mccain work to keep our jobs here in the states? will mccain work to solve our immigration woes? will mccain work to regulate the economy better? (recent credit crisis etc). foreign policy? education?

One of the biggest reasons, is the one you said I can't list, so...

First off, most of Bush's policies aren't failed.  Liberals like to play that up.  He actually kept the economy pretty stable during time of war.  The war has diminished funds, but other than that, the economy has been great.  McCain will bring home troops in an appropriate matter.  The war will end under both potentials, however, it will end properly, and in victory with McCain.  Obama wants to rush troops home which will threaten not only their lives, but everything that has been fought for over the last 7-8 years.

Of course McCain will work to keep jobs here.  That's what tax cuts on businesses do.  When it's cheaper to work here, they'll stay here.  Not only that, but they'll employ more people, and pay people more.  It's called supply side economics, or the trickle down theory.  It works great.  The other option is to end the tax cuts on them, which Obama wants to do.  That will drive these businesses to other countries.  Why would anyone want to keep their business here, when it's cheaper to have it in Mexico or elsewhere.

The recent credit crisis didn't start with republicans.  It started back in the day of Jimmy Carter.  he made it easier for people with poor credit to get loans.  Clinton then ramped this up, and that's a lot of the reason why Clinton's economy is viewed at being so good.  All this was pushed into Bush's presidency.  The housing market was getting ridiculously high because there were all these easy to get loans.  Once people couldn't sell homes for as high anymore, it all crashed.  That along with the banks supplying these loans.  The very banks that are backed, and in ties with democrats.  Hopefully these bail outs will do some good, and the market will equalize soon.  Then, McCain's Supply side economics will be able to help build up the economy again.

McCain has excellent foreign policy.  We'll have a stronger, and more well prepared military, and McCain will be able to deal with the inevitable threat from Iran.  Obama wouldn't be able to handle it.  That is, if he even wanted to...something we really don't know about him.

Public Education is bad, there's no way around it.  Work hard and put your kid through private school.
Some things that are good with his plan though, is to award good teachers.  However, this plan may not work because of the liberal unions that public school teachers are in.  They get paid so much, and that's what they get, so there's no use to strive to be a great teacher, cause it's not going to get you anywhere. (socialism anyone?)  He also wants to reform 'no child left behind'.  He feels that it was a good start, but doesn't need to be tossed away like most republicans think.  He also wants to ensure access to students that strive to go further.  This is a big problem with the democrat side.  The perpetuating drop outs and welfare recipients.  Feeling like they can't succeed just cause they're in the projects.  Even those kids have the ability to succeed, but it is their lack of drive that pushes them to failure.  I think that something that would counteract this, would be to reform Welfare, and actually teach people to catch the fish instead of giving them a fish every day.  This will help those people become responsible citizens and help their children see that they can be something more.

He says he's going to secure the borders, but I don't think that's ever going to happen.  Watch this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAaBgMmSrJo
Very good video on Immigration.
So anyways, he says he's going to secure the border.  I don't agree with some of the policies, because he plans to allow many of them to stay, but he is going to be a lot more strict than Obama.  He does say that the recent immigrants will be sent back.  I don't feel that it will work, or that it will really ever work.  Too much politics on both side of the rope for this one.

Other things that I agree with McCain on, are Traditional Marriage, wants to do away with abortion, he's pro gun, he's a true Christian (however he did have a divorce, which I disagree with), he's been part of the military, which to be a Commander in Chief, I think is necessary.  He also knows the horror of war, and I feel that his time being a prisoner, has shaped him in a way to more humainly deal with situations.  He believes that we should drill for oil right now, while other means of energy are being developed.  (you all say it'll take 10 years, but new developments of technology will take 15 to 20 years to be really mainstream.  If we work for what we have now, then we'll make the transition more comfortable)

Obama and his campaign have been trying to lump McCain and Bush as the same person, but if you look at the facts, they are two totally different people.  Yes both on the right, but McCain is far more centric than Bush.  I am fairly far right, and I disagree with a lot of things that McCain does, or will do, but even then, he's so far to the right of Obama, that McCain can't even see Obama.

I want to go back to Reagan days.  He was a good republican conservative.  Since then, the right's gotten more centric, and the left's gotten more socialistic.  Back then, McCain would have been the Democratic Nominee.  Things  in this country have changed, and I'm just voting on the side that is closest to my values, beliefs, and proven ability.  I want less government, more freedom, and the ability to keep as much of my money as possible, so that I can succeed in life.  I don't want bigger government, with tons more stupid programs that take my money and give it to people so that they can keep sitting on their ass doing nothing.

[jserio]

i agree with most of the things you said...except the "side economics" and "trickle down therory". sure sounds great. except that i don't see that it has worked. if it worked so well, why are major employers such as ford, gm etc closing plants? why did honda move their motorcycle plant back to japan? why are the oil companies still raking in huge profits and not hireing people or improving their processes? i want as many jobs to stay in america as possible, same as you. but think about the other side of the equation for a moment. lets say we end these tax cuts and said company says, "hey, i can do this cheaper in mexico so i will." that's fine. when it comes time for them to import said product, double their tax on it. hit them in the pocket book. sure this needs to be done with tact but i think it would work better than the way things have gone recently. let's discuss age. mccain is old, fairly old. obama is a younger guy. i'm getting the impression that mccain is still thinking of how things should be run in terms of how they were 30 years ago when he first got into politics. obama is a younger guy, should be more "in tune" to how things should go in this "new age". things are different. times are changing, so our policies and how we handle things need to change as well. you mention religion. i won't ask yours, it's not any of my business. obama's parents registered him as muslim, this is fact. but if your parents had baptized you as catholic, could you not grow up and make your own choice as to your religion? of course you could, so can obama. you mention that his church believes Christ was black. and how this is wrong etc. how do you know? were you alive during Christ's time? i can say this, from my perspective of history, Christ was not the meek looking, fair skinned man with long hair that is portrayed of Him. He was a carpenter, a Jew. he escaped several times those hunting him because he blended in with the crowd. if He was so light skinned and long hair and frail looking he would have stood out like an albino at the apollo. my point is, nobody really knows. a mans relationship with God is his own PERSONAL relationship, nobody elses. what goes on between you and the Man upstairs is your business. you stated yourself all that matters is acceptance that Christ came and died for our sins. everything else, is meaningless i think.

[Cal76]

Bush's policies sure do seem to have failed, but maybe I am playing up his mistakes.  Except that, his approval rating is about 20% and the majority of the country believes that the economic crisis is mostly due to the republicans.  I am sure a few americans can get things wrong, but 80%??  It is unrealistic to believe that 80% of the country is wrong and the last desperate 20% are hanging on hoping everything will be ok.  Or maybe they are waiting on a disaster to happen so, attention will be taken away from the obvious incompetence. 

And, why does it matter if someone portrays jesus as black??  To me it seems kind of smart, in that, it could make both adults and children relate better.  If the message is the same, why would anyone, whose goal is to "spread the word", care what race that jesus is seen.  To me, it seems a whole lot smarter than the typical hell, fire, and damnation method.  I may have a completely different view if the baptist churches I went to as a child would have tried as hard to relate to me as opposed to using fear to get me to believe.  How is it possible that he sees jesus as black be a reasonable reason to exclude him?  Unfortunately, we will never know a politican's real beliefs because to believe in anything outside of christianity is certain political suicide.  I wish our leaders could express their true feelings as they once did. 

No one can argue the greatness of presidents like Thomas Jefferson, John Adams,  or Lincoln and they all made anti-religious statements. 

Jefferson said:  "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." and "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." 

Adams said:  "The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."  and "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." 

Best of all, Lincoln said:  "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." 

If any of these presidents tried to run today, they would not get close to a nomination.  And why not, did they not do a pretty good job??  The Declaration of Independence and the end of slavery are not bad feats.  It is when seperation of church and state was considered important.  The insistance that someone may not be able to do a job that has nothing to do with religion because he is not religious is just as stupid as it sounds!!  Christianity does not have the monopoly on morals!!  I know christians that are moral and that are everything but.  I also know non-christians that are moral and still others who are not.  Christianity and morality are not co-dependant and it is absurd to think otherwise!!

Not to mention, Obama has said he is a christian!!  It is kind of wierd to say that any politician must be a christian and then when a politician is, he gets the "no you're not" line.  Come on, it is just silly.

By the way, none of this matters because McCain has done such a crap job at nearly every aspect of his campaign, a miracle is about the only thing that would keep Obama out of the white house.  The cool and collected Obama would have to do something pretty bad to not win so, looks like you are gonna have to deal with it.