85 mpg

[Ronin]

Thats awesome mileage  You have one Green GS 

But motorcycles don't have catalytic converters, so they already pollute something like 10 times the amount cars do per mile. If you want to even match a car for environmental friendliness you need to get something like 500 miles to the gallon... Fuel efficiency does not strictly equal greenness...

Catalytic converters put out Sulfer dioxide,mixed with water say rain or dew turns into Sulfuric acid.I know of nothing living that can take that and make use of it! 

[qwertydude]

The sulfur has to come from somewhere, it's not in the air, oil, or car parts so the only place it could be is the gas. Remember I got my GS tested SO2 levels were below the limits, in fact I already said all my numbers were below limits. Ultra Low sulfur gas and diesel is now the standard since 2006 and will be increasingly more stringent in coming years, more sulfur is emitted from coal fired plants than from cars now. No matter how clean you car is, it can have 3 stage catalytic convertors, if there is sulfur in the fuel it's being turned into SO2 no matter what, so it's not the vehicles fault it's the fuels. So electric cars in the US will technically be creating more acid rain than gas and diesels. And yes nothing can live in sulfuric acid but only in high concentrations, but also there is oxygen in the air not toxic but did you know that breathing 100% oxygen for extended periods will kill you too? Yes the oxygen will oxidize the cells in your lungs and will release free radicals into your body. If your lungs don't melt your damaged DNA will cause cancer. Yes oxygen is toxic, guess what ozone is O3, 3 bonded oxygen atoms and they use it to sterilize medical equipment, the oxygen is so unstable it immediately damages all DNA it comes in contact with, hence even ozone is a pollutant and is nothing more than oxygen. I'm all for saving the environment but believe we can only do so if we are all well informed of the science necessary to solve the problem. Much like a doctor healing a patient by prescribing treatment, you wouldn't want anyone making environmental policies based on piss poor science and misinformation spread by those with an agenda other than the benefit of the environment. I hope to set an exampple of not falling for sensationalism and only going for what is truly better for the environment. The GS500 was the best compromise for manufacturing footprint, resource consumption, fuel efficiency, simplicity to maintain, and also pocketbook impact. Wanna know how well hybrid cars fulfill those requirements? In one word poorlly.

[yamahonkawazuki]

lemme ask you this, emissions aside. what is the performace like. does it have the acceleration of a yugo? i mean that is a drastic jump in teeth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz2eCFoafXk ( a friendly jab. nothing serious )

[qwertydude]

Well it's only a 12% increase in gear ratio, that means off the line I only have 12% less starting torque, but once I get in the power range it feels exactly the same as before. I can still out accelerate all the cars at a stoplight. Yet for some reason many of them still try to race me. Often times off the line I'll hear their tires chirp and engines scream as they try their best so that their Hyundai doesn't fall behind me. Why is it people feel they need to always lead the pack at a light even if there is a much faster vehicle pulling ahead without even trying?

[mp183]

I can get 55 mpg if I take it easy on the throttle.
My DL650 gets about the same mileage.
At higher speeds the V-Strom beats the GS500.
It's all a matter of wind resistance.
The higher the speed the lower the mpg.
My riding buddy got 63 mpg on his V-Strom but it was painful.
Had to keep the speed down and be very gentle on the throttle.
Gearing on his V-Strom was slightly altered but not any big amount.

[harlight]

I'd like to know the vendor that supplies the 17 or 18-tooth sprockets.  Thx

[the mole]

Just like to add to qwertydude's bit about acceleration.
Changing to a larger front sprocket (I have a 17t) only changes your initial acceleration off the line, after you get going the gearchanges will happen at slightly different road speeds, but overall the performance is the same. If you are accelerating hard and using maximum engine performance, the acceleration in each gear would be slightly less than for stock gearing, but each gear will run to slightly higher speed at the same rpm. If you run a drag against a standard bike from say 30 mph, the standard bike will start off pulling ahead, then at the first gearchange the higher geared bike will gain while the other goes for the next gear. Then the stock bike pulls ahead until trhe next change and so on.
If you compare the stock 16t with 18t, I imagine that with 18 teeth its almost like starting off iin 2nd, but after that gearchanges will happen almost exactly like a stock bike, but when the 18t is, say, going for 4th, the 16t rider is changing to 5th, but they're both changing at the same time at the same speed and rpm and with the same performance.
The 16t rider gets better acceleration off the line, easier hill starts and is happier in very slow traffic. The 18t rider gets effectively an extra gear at the top end for relaxed cruising, better economy and less engine wear.
The ideal for me would be to leave first where it is, change the other gear ratios so that they are evenly spaced with 5th where the standard 6th is, then have 6th as a real overdrive. The best of both worlds as the torquey GS engine really doesn't need a close ratio gearbox, and you'd be doing fewer changes in traffic. That's never going to happen, so I got the 17t.
But mainly, I'm loving riding the GS after too long without a bike!!!

[pherthyl]

The sulfur has to come from somewhere, it's not in the air, oil, or car parts so the only place it could be is the gas. Remember I got my GS tested SO2 levels were below the limits, in fact I already said all my numbers were below limits. Ultra Low sulfur gas and diesel is now the standard since 2006 and will be increasingly more stringent in coming years, more sulfur is emitted from coal fired plants than from cars now. No matter how clean you car is, it can have 3 stage catalytic convertors, ......

Holy jesus.  Your keyboard has an enter key for a reason.  Impossible to read these one line novels.

Not to mention your argument is all over the place.  It's pretty well known that motorcycles (pre 2006) pollute a lot more than cars.  Plenty of very detailed reports have been written up about it, based on measured values, all of which you can find with a bit of web searching.    Not that I care, I don't own a car and ride only a few thousand miles a year so realistically I'm no worse than the average car driver.   

If you really care about emissions of your bike, get just about any modern bike that passes Euro3 standards.   It'll be about at the same level as modern cars and you can breathe easy.

[qwertydude]

New bikes may be cleaner but they also have a hefty premium attached to them.

All the performance people are demanding out of newer bikes means they have big wide expensive tires, get poorer gas mileage and have higher maintenance costs.

Tell me of a bike that I can purchase that is cleaner, inexpensive to maintain, and gets better gas mileage AND is available in the US's limited bigger is better market and I'll buy it.

We don't have the choice to buy any new fancy small bikes in the US, heck even the new US market ninja 250 is still carbed.

Seriously they're still selling new GS500's out of the dealer and I know they haven't changed so they still must pass emissions so what's the big deal?

2006 was not a big leap in motorcycle emmisions technology, it was a big leap in gasoline and diesel, ultra low sulfur.

Again please tell me what on-bike technology keeps S02 out of the exhaust?

Catalytic convertors can only deal with NOx's (leads to nitric acid in acid rain), CO (greenhouse gas) and unburnt hydrocarbons.

There is no way to prevent the formation of S02, the precursor to (sulfuric acid) and no way to catalize it into anything using available technology.

The most damaging acid in acid rain with the inauguration of ultra low sulfur fuel is NOx's and their atmospheric byproduct nitric acid.

I wouldn't worry about sulfuric acid in acid rain, and if you studied a little chemistry you'd know that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter look it up here there is no way for any vehicles to deal with sulfuric acid producing S02 other than sulfur reduction in fuels.

I stand by that my bike still passes CA AUTOMOBILE emmisions, the toughest in the world and you're still trying to pick that apart? Seriously.

I'm doing my part as best I can, and educating myself in the process, a little bit of googling can lead to a lot of misinformation about environmental policy as I've previously stated.

So please if you want to change my mind please provide the necessary info like I've done with 3 way catalysts, read it, they have NOTHING to do with sulfuric acid production.

2006 as I've said was not a change in motorcycle technology but in fuel technology.

[yamahonkawazuki]

qwerty one more question, got a link for this front sprocket? and 2. do you have to change the chain to use this item? many thanks ahead of time 

[Unknown]

lemme ask you this, emissions aside. what is the performace like. does it have the acceleration of a yugo? i mean that is a drastic jump in teeth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz2eCFoafXk ( a friendly jab. nothing serious )

HAHAHAHA +1

Yeah, where did you get the sprocket, what else did you have to change, what part number? Do I just searched through the garbage and slap in any old sprocket that fits? I think my mountain bike has an 18 tooth sprocket lol

[pherthyl]

New bikes may be cleaner but they also have a hefty premium attached to them.

All the performance people are demanding out of newer bikes means they have big wide expensive tires, get poorer gas mileage and have higher maintenance costs.

Some of them sure,  but any medium sized bikes (Ninja 650r, SV650) get about 50-60MPG which is the same as the GS (your 85MPG is clearly an exception).  FI and tighter tolerances on the newer engines allow a lot more power to be squeezed out of the same fuel. 

Tell me of a bike that I can purchase that is cleaner, inexpensive to maintain, and gets better gas mileage AND is available in the US's limited bigger is better market and I'll buy it.

2008 Ninja 250r should meet all those categories.  It's still carbed, yes, but it is a lot cleaner than before.
Seriously though, I don't care in the slightest what you ride, I'm just saying older bikes pollute a lot more than newer ones.  The tradeoff is expense and a more complicated machine, I totally agree with that.

Seriously they're still selling new GS500's out of the dealer and I know they haven't changed so they still must pass emissions so what's the big deal?

That's a good point.  I don't know the regulation situation in the US so I wouldn't know, but it is strange that they can still sell it in the EU without passing Euro3.   Maybe it doesn't take effect until later.

Again please tell me what on-bike technology keeps S02 out of the exhaust?
Catalytic convertors can only deal with NOx's (leads to nitric acid in acid rain), CO (greenhouse gas) and unburnt hydrocarbons.

A partial solution is better than no solution.

I stand by that my bike still passes CA AUTOMOBILE emmisions, the toughest in the world and you're still trying to pick that apart? Seriously.

Unless you did the full test cycle measurements with your bike you can't know that.  Just hooking up the equipment and doing a quick check is not enough. 
Most GSes here are non-cali models and they absolutely certainly don't pass.   I'm not saying to ditch your GS, I sure won't, but that doesn't stop me from realizing that they're old tech and not that clean.

[qwertydude]

My sprocket is afam it's the only one that makes sprockets that big. You can get it from bikebandit. The price though did go up from $30 to $41 last time I checked. I also put a brand new stock sized 110 link chain and it fit just fine, a little closer than normal but hey that's more area for the chain to wear  , actually you should replace your chain when you're able to pull the chain out about 1/2 a link's length from the rear sprocket.

And older technology isn't necessarily dirtier, did you know that the old Honda 80's CVCC could pass emissions standards back in the day without using catalytic convertors? Low compression engines like the GS500 actually creates les NOx's therefore do not need the 3 way catalytic converters of newer vehicles. The drawback is they create more CO which is easily dealt with with regular single and 2 stage cats. Tight tolerances and high compression may be good for high power output per displacement but is not necessarily more efficient or cleaner, more NOx output that need bigger heavier cats to deal with and the need to run richer for them to work. Which is another reason they are not as effiicient. So the question is what is more pollutting a tiny bit of NOx that leaks by my inferior cats or the far greater amount of CO2 coming from newer engines because they are not efficient. Keep in mind that the Kyoto treaty cares primarily for that CO2.

I know people with ninja 250's and even on the ninja 250 boards people say they don't get the kinds of mileage that we see on our GS's most people are only getting about 55-70 mpg same as ours and it isn't cleaner it has the same single stage cats like our GS's but the higher compression needed to produce the power creates more pollution in the form of NOx's than our GS's. A highly strung out engine is less efficient. A piston moving up and down at 8000 rpm wastes a lot of energy, kinetic energy is K=1/2m*v^2, which means even though the engine is lighter and smaller the energy required to change the direction of piston travel is actually very great. Take for axample a HD sportster. I know guys who regularly see 60 mpg on those. And they've got 883cc engines and the guys with the 1200 actually regularly get 55. Efficiency is not relative to size. An extremely low revving engine is actually very efficient. It's one other often overlooked reason why diesels are so efficient.

And what other testing do you need to do? I've hooked it up to the dyno and stuck the tester in the exhaust and did a full rpm load test. CA is the only state that requires load testing with smog checks most states just idle or free rev. It passed, what else do you need to test for? Again if you want to make a case please back up with facts and not just blanket statements like new stuff is cleaner. Because you obviously didn't even know about the honda CVCC engine which even though was carbureted was cleaner than the fuel injected and catylized "clean" cars of it's era. I am an engineering student and know quite a few full fledged engineers myself and can tell you that nothing you have presented even comes close to a convincing argument. If the information is out there and searchable please search it for me since I wouldn't know which facts you are looking at. I give absolute specifics, catalytic convertors, the Honda CVCC engine, even fuel sulfur reductions.

[erbilabuc]

im buying one tomorrow

[theGrinch]

I got around the same mileage (if I did the maths correctly) out of a standard 16 tooth sprocket when I did my "800 mile in 22h" run from Germany to the UK. Only motorways, constant 75ish mph. (Erm... that was obviously 70 in France and the UK officers... )

Do you have a pic of your sprocket fitted? Coz it was really tight when I put a 17 in at one point. I know that SUZUKI has a big range of production tolerance, but I couldn't fit a 18 tooth in my 99 engine.

[pontil]

It's all about mileage now isn't it?  Here in Denver they have an HOV (high occupancy vehicle) lane for cars with two or more people and it has an exception for motorcycles. I guess they've decided that using less gas compensates for more pollutants per cc/ci