Starting troubles

[myfirstluv]

Hello everyone,

I've searching for my issue in other threads but couldn't really find any help. Anyways;

I've been having trouble starting my bike this summer.  It was the worst early this summer go a little better and just got worse again after doing maintenance on the bike: 8000 mile maintenance.  Basically when I push the ignition button you can hear clicks and you can hear the engine trying to start, but you have to throttle on to get the bike started.  This is with the choke all the way on.  If the bike does start without using the throttle the rpm's either stay low and the engine eventually turns off or  the rpms take a while to move up.  Ever since this started I thought it was either the choke, air filter, or spark plugs, but I change the spark plugs and air filter.

What else could it be if its not the choke?

I have till September 26 this year for my warranty to end.  So I was thinking of them checking it out and just spending $50 and plus my horn doesn't work consistently either.

Thanks for your help!

[beRto]

Any idea on the condition of the battery? Based on your description, that's where I'd start. In many cases you can have it load tested for free.

[myfirstluv]

I did check the battery and I actually needed to fill it up with deionized water, which I did during my maintenance.  But nothing really changed after the fact,, as far as I can tell.

[beRto]

I did check the battery and I actually needed to fill it up with deionized water, which I did during my maintenance.  But nothing really changed after the fact,, as far as I can tell.

Did you also load-test the battery? How old is the battery? How do you store the battery in the off-season (assuming you have an off-season)?

Keeping the water level topped up is good, but eventually the battery will die regardless.

[myfirstluv]

The bike is an 06 model so I'm assuming it's two years old.  I don't know how to do a load test on a battery but I do have a multimeter where I test the battery on its own, when I start the bike, and when I throttle on.  I actually haven't done that recently because my multimeter ran out of battery. Is that what you meant by load test?  Either way could you please tell me exactly how you test your battery?

And also would a bad battery effect the horn as well?

[beRto]

The bike is an 06 model so I'm assuming it's two years old.  I don't know how to do a load test on a battery but I do have a multimeter where I test the battery on its own, when I start the bike, and when I throttle on.  I actually haven't done that recently because my multimeter ran out of battery. Is that what you meant by load test?  Either way could you please tell me exactly how you test your battery?

And also would a bad battery effect the horn as well?

A load test is not generally something you would perform by yourself. Take the battery into a local motorcycle shop and ask them to perform the load test for you (if you like, you can call ahead and ask if they perform this service free of charge).

The load test consists of hooking the battery up to a machine that simulates the load on the battery during normal operation - the shop will then look at the behaviour of the battery to see if it is working properly.

A bad battery will have unusual effects on all parts of the electrical system (horn included).

Hope this helps!

[DoD#i]

Battery may be bad - have it tested. I'd also suspect poor (dirty, corroded, not connecting well) connections, with or without the battery itself being bad, but if you get the battery tested, you'll know if that is contributing, or not.

[myfirstluv]

So, when i went to the dealer they said it's normal to give a little throttle to get it started.  The Haynes manual also mentioned this.

But now the problem is bad,  when I start it early in the morning and try to give it throttle to get the rpm's up when the choke is on the throttle won't twist right away like in the summer, I have to wait a little, and even then the rpm's don't always want to clime.

After the bike is "warmed up" if I have to stop at an intersection right after warming up the bike, the bike stalls (engine cuts off) after pulling in the clutch and rolling to a stop.  The idle also stays really low, and is almost shaky, for lack of a better word.  But once the bike gets going and is fully warmed it does get better and doesn't give me too many problems except the idle does lower a little bit when coming to a stop, but increases back to normal idle once stopped for 10 seconds.

I know everyone said to  get my battery checked but I am going to just get a new one, as per this forum's recommendations. 

Does anyone think my alternator is bad or something is wrong with the choke?

[TheDrunknmonky]

it is normal to give it some gas to start. i think the owners manual suggests 1/4 throttle.  i had this problem with mine and it was an '06 with zero miiles off the showroom floor.  first thing i would do is replace the battery.  that was the problem with mine.  if that doesn't work i would take the bike to the dealer and have them check the charging system.  i have heard that the charging system in these bikes rarely goes out, but if the battery doesn't fix the problem then that would be the next logical step.

[beRto]

So, when i went to the dealer they said it's normal to give a little throttle to get it started.  The Haynes manual also mentioned this.

But now the problem is bad,  when I start it early in the morning and try to give it throttle to get the rpm's up when the choke is on the throttle won't twist right away like in the summer, I have to wait a little, and even then the rpm's don't always want to clime.

After the bike is "warmed up" if I have to stop at an intersection right after warming up the bike, the bike stalls (engine cuts off) after pulling in the clutch and rolling to a stop.  The idle also stays really low, and is almost shaky, for lack of a better word.  But once the bike gets going and is fully warmed it does get better and doesn't give me too many problems except the idle does lower a little bit when coming to a stop, but increases back to normal idle once stopped for 10 seconds.

I know everyone said to  get my battery checked but I am going to just get a new one, as per this forum's recommendations. 

Does anyone think my alternator is bad or something is wrong with the choke?

The symptoms you are describing now do not sound battery related. A failing battery will give difficulty starting, but will not cause a bad idle. I would still suggest testing the battery before replacing it.

Have you tried adjusting the idle screw? It's the big brass screw that hangs down between the carbs. There are some photos on the board that will turn up in a search. When the bike is fully warmed, the idle should not drop when you come to a stop. Try turning the idle screw to increase idle to about 1300 rpm when the bike is fully warmed.

As suggested, it could also be a choke issue. Does the choke lever move freely? Look at the carbs from the right side - can you see the choke plunger moving in and out of the carb bodies when you move the choke lever?

[myfirstluv]

BERTO:

I have played around with the idle screw and it works better when idle around 1300-1450 rpm's; the idle is more stable and won't jump around as much even when warming up.

But, sometimes the idle can increase a little bit, maybe a little over 1500rpm's; I just thought this wasn't to good for the bike  that's why I described symptoms of when the idle is lower.  Now, is it ok that the idle sits a little higher during the winter, or is it bad no matter what?    (It has never jumped up or down dramatically).

And also I warm the bike according to the manuals, meaning I try not to keep  the choke on for over a minute or two, but it lately it seems to need the choke for longer than recommended.  You can tell when you ride that it doesn't get fully warmed up and doesn't reach FULL idle after about 5-7 minutes of riding.

Should I let the bike reach full idle before riding (according to the manual that takes about 15-20 minutes)??  :dunno_white:I'm always afraid the battery will drain.

To answer your final question, the choke is not smooth and does not move freely.  At certain points of the choke its very sensitive and it also has a habit of reving high and reving low; a huge gap between two points in the choke as apposed to a smooth decrease in the rpm range as you move the choke lever down.

I hope I explained everything well.  Please let me know if you need more details.

[beRto]

I have played around with the idle screw and it works better when idle around 1300-1450 rpm's; the idle is more stable and won't jump around as much even when warming up.

My idle was usually set around 1400 rpm. If the bike works noticeably better at that engine speed, then you're probably fine to set the idle a little high (i.e. 1300 rpm - 1400 rpm).

But, sometimes the idle can increase a little bit, maybe a little over 1500rpm's; I just thought this wasn't to good for the bike  that's why I described symptoms of when the idle is lower.  Now, is it ok that the idle sits a little higher during the winter, or is it bad no matter what?    (It has never jumped up or down dramatically).

The idle speed should never really climb. If it does this regularly, it probably means that the bike was not fully warm when the idle was set. When you see the idle climb above 1500 rpm, bump it down a little. The idle should be a little lower when the bike is cold. That's OK - the idle speed specification refers to a fully warmed up bike.

And also I warm the bike according to the manuals, meaning I try not to keep  the choke on for over a minute or two, but it lately it seems to need the choke for longer than recommended.  You can tell when you ride that it doesn't get fully warmed up and doesn't reach FULL idle after about 5-7 minutes of riding.

Should I let the bike reach full idle before riding (according to the manual that takes about 15-20 minutes)??  :dunno_white:I'm always afraid the battery will drain.

The manual is written to apply to a broad range of users, and gives general recommendations. If you are riding the bike in cooler weather, you will probably need to let the bike warm up for a little longer. I usually open the choke fully, let the idle climb to 3000 rpm or so, wait a minute, close the choke a little bit, and repeat.

If it's really cold, I sometimes start riding with the choke partially open (and close it fully at the first stop light).

To answer your final question, the choke is not smooth and does not move freely.  At certain points of the choke its very sensitive and it also has a habit of reving high and reving low; a huge gap between two points in the choke as apposed to a smooth decrease in the rpm range as you move the choke lever down.

I hope I explained everything well.  Please let me know if you need more details.

It's hard to gauge choke movement based on rpm. It's normal for small changes in choke setting to affect the engine speed quite a bit. How does the choke lever feel as you move it? It should slide freely without binding. If the choke does not move freely, you will need to lubricate the choke cable. You can do this with a cable lubricating tool (~$5) or by hanging the cable with the top opening immersed in lubricant (it's easiest if you search for more details and ask if you have questions).

[myfirstluv]

It doesn't slide freely. 

I'll look up how to lubricate the choke.  Hopefully it doesn't take too long to do.

I changed the battery and it started up fine this morning, I'll post back once I actually ride to school.

I did check the battery charge with a multimeter with the new battery.  When I throttle on, what voltage should the bike go up to?  Mine goes up to 14-14.2 and after a certain point in the rpm's it doesn't go any higher.  But despite that it does charge up.

[beRto]

It doesn't slide freely. 

I'll look up how to lubricate the choke.  Hopefully it doesn't take too long to do.

If you use the tool, cable lubrication will take about 5 minutes. The main problem is disassembling the choke end at the handlebar to free the cable.

I changed the battery and it started up fine this morning, I'll post back once I actually ride to school.

I did check the battery charge with a multimeter with the new battery.  When I throttle on, what voltage should the bike go up to?  Mine goes up to 14-14.2 and after a certain point in the rpm's it doesn't go any higher.  But despite that it does charge up.

At 5000 rpm, the battery voltage should read between 13.5 V and 15.5 V.

If you want to fully test your charging system, follow this HOW TO:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38480.0

[myfirstluv]

WOOOOO!  That sounds about right, at 5000 rpm about 14-14.3.

And also I know I mentioned this before, but it still keeps occurring;  When rolling to a stop with the clutch squeezed fully, the rpm's drop about the width of the needle from the original idle position.  But after I'm at a complete stop the rpm's go back up the original idle position.  It only drops a hair; am I being anal about this and reading too much into it or should I keep an eye out.

Anyways, I rode to class this morning and it is running so much better, besides from what I mentioned above. And just to be clear when the rpm's drop it doesn't sound like before when the engine wanted to just cut off, it's just noticble enough that I thought I should ask you guys about it.

[Kasumi]

Your worrying too much about it, its natural.