Waste of YOUR National Resources - Politics

[tussey]

Being under 28 I don't expect you to remember what the economy was like under Carter, suffice it to say would a 21% home mortgage interest rate be bad? The answer is yes and that's what we had. Unemployment was at an all time high and gasoline shortages literally had mile long lines at gas stations. This was due to the sociialist policy beliefs Carter held to.

I'm considerably over 28 and I think your timeline is off. The gas lines happened during the Nixon administration due to the Arab oil embargo of 1973. Unemployment actually went down under Carter. Interest rates and unemployment peaked during Reagans early years. National unemployment topped out at 13.5%...nothing like the 30+% of the great depression. I bought a home in '81 and my interest rate was 11.5%. The highest rate of anyone I knew was 14%. That's not to say that the rate didn't go up later. The economic storm of the early 80's actually started brewing a decade earlier. Carter inherited the mess from the Nixon/Ford administrations. Do a little research on "stagflation" and you'll see what they were up against.

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn

[bettingpython]

Saudi oil embargo was 73 sorry yep that happened under Ford, Reagan inherited the double digit unemployment from Carter, and turned around the unemplyment rate, during the 1977 to 1981 adminstration of president Carter the prime lending rate went from 7% to 20% and inflation went through the roof as the dollar fell. Glad you were able to get a house at 11% in 1981 you were one of the few.

The socialist programs and unchecked inflationary spending that occured during the Carter administration with a democratic congress and senate about broke us. The deficit increased because Reagan instead of printing more worthless cash and raising inflation even higher borrowed from foreign banks commodities with real value. As productivity returned to the US economy that engine continued to run allowing eventually the clinton administration to pay down the defeceit that was a direct reflection of carter administration polices. 16 years earlier.

Jaded apathetic youth who only enjoy going ohhhhh burn because I screwed up a  fact from childhood a worthless wastes of our national resources, for the life of me I can't understand why we spend tax dollars and mandate incresed eduction for those who don't care.

I may disagree with frankies point of view and beliefs but at least he forms them based upon educated researched information and life experiences.

[Big Lou]

Big Lou, I certainly appreciate your service with all my heart but we will be truly free when we break free from the shackles of the Federal Reserve and our Banking System as we know it. We MUST go back to allowing our Treasury to print our own damn money, back our own money and NOT some "private" organization that has NEVER been audited since it's inception.

I agree, my only point of repudiation would be that if/when we print our money, it HAS to be backed by a physical commodity, like it was with gold back when this country was still a stain in the underpants of the rebellion. And if we DID print our own money, we would also have to have enough commodity to back it in a global economy, not just a local.   A cease and desist order on ALL foreign importation because we could not control the expenditure of our dollar would put us in the same boat that W. has put us in, i.e. lack of respect/confidence from the global community, (inflation probably wouldn't be a problem) shortage of necessary goods (mainly petroleoum based products, which there are so many of it's hard to concieve), etc... I agree in the sense that we do have to find a route not of  retreat, but to regroup, however we must at the same time assert ourselves in the global community.  Not that it matters, because this is all highly hypothetical...

[gearman]

...gasoline shortages literally had mile long lines at gas stations.

My bad. You were correct, there was a second oil crisis in 1979 due to the Iranian's escapades. I don't remember long lines at the gas stations but that may have varied regionally. Crude oil prices from that era held the record (adjusted for inflation, etc.) until March of this year. I do remember the price of gas rising sharply. I drove a Trans Am with a 455 V8 and ended up trading it for a 6 cyl Ford Maverick.

[The Buddha]

Yea we are scared of communism ... and W has driven us straight to it ...
BTW, the problem was started in the last 2 years of clinton ...
The problem was picked up after 9/11 as an excellent distraction from the tanking real economy by bush and fanned with a vengeance ...
Then when it blew up ... all the W had to do was polish up the Veto pen ...  He was promising to ... Then he chickened/sold out.
I'd lay the blame at clinton for ~15% of the problem, 85% at bush for creating the problem.
I'd lay 100% of the blame at bush for the "solution" ... Yea the solution will be worse than the problem ... waaaaaay worse.
I'd also blame bush for exporting jobs ... and McCain will continue that ... why ...
Rax cuts for the higher income ... I dont see how tax cuts will create jobs ...
I look at it this way ...
I can open a GSTwins parts business, make a bunch of crap in india and sell it here.
I'd make say 500K and get a nice little tax cut.
If tax cuts were based on employment ... say I employed 4 people and paid them 50K each ... I can justify getting a tax cut ... but just tax cuts for business and tax cuts for high income is just BS that encourages people to export or do any crap to get to the higher income bracket.

I dont care about blaming politicians for gasoline shortages or lines ... unless one of them really screwed the pooch when dealing with one of our OPEC "friends" ... I blame the idiot people who bought houses 100 miles away, then promptly refied that house to buy a SUV for their comfortable drive to work ... we need to learn to live with no gasoline in a few years if we keep it up.

I also dont blame Carter for stagflation ... most 1 term presidents have dealt with the consequences that were handed to them ... much like the 91 recession wont be Bush's fault ... he had to deal with starwars program and its withdrawl. The 00-01 recession too was the result of shrinkage after random expansion during the late 90's.

The thought is ... whatever the end result may be ... there should be expansion ... so we see ugly houses in far flung exurbs, or idiotic software and pets.com selling at 120 a share ... sorry, expansion is worthless ... some ideas just need to die, remember webvan ... yea crap  ... and economic boom's dont let that happen ... We need a good old fashioned depression, and we need a revolution. I will just guess in 4-8 years we will be right back here and say who caused the random bubble in this or that ...

I'd let all the damn banks fail, and let unemployment hit 12-20%, and right where it does, and I'd start the printing presses (yes inflation but we wont be paying interest on borrowed $$$) and invest in repair of our bridges, building roads and expanding other infrastructure like rail lines etc etc etc ... Highways are over crowded ... we need to get away from the "commuter cities" and set a system up where businesses will not be indiscriminately allowed to set up anywhere and encourage long commutes ... and we should lose the concept of exurb ...

BTW ... I'd love to see gas shortage ... acute shortage ... so much so that there will have to be laws against commuting to work ... telecommute for everyone that can, and if you must commute, find public transit.

Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

Oh yea ... Obama is making a lot of promises you are worried that he will not be able to keep ...

McCain is making a lot of promises you really really pray that he doesn't keep ... and ... fear that he will ...

Cool.
Buddha.

[bettingpython]

...gasoline shortages literally had mile long lines at gas stations.

My bad. You were correct, there was a second oil crisis in 1979 due to the Iranian's escapades. I don't remember long lines at the gas stations but that may have varied regionally. Crude oil prices from that era held the record (adjusted for inflation, etc.) until March of this year. I do remember the price of gas rising sharply. I drove a Trans Am with a 455 V8 and ended up trading it for a 6 cyl Ford Maverick.

No I don't remember 79 causing the gas lines like I remember as a little kid. In 79 I think thats when gas jumped to 50cents a gallon.

[The Buddha]

Saudi oil embargo was 73 sorry yep that happened under Ford, Reagan inherited the double digit unemployment from Carter, and turned around the unemplyment rate, during the 1977 to 1981 adminstration of president Carter the prime lending rate went from 7% to 20% and inflation went through the roof as the dollar fell. Glad you were able to get a house at 11% in 1981 you were one of the few.

The socialist programs and unchecked inflationary spending that occured during the Carter administration with a democratic congress and senate about broke us. The deficit increased because Reagan instead of printing more worthless cash and raising inflation even higher borrowed from foreign banks commodities with real value. As productivity returned to the US economy that engine continued to run allowing eventually the clinton administration to pay down the defeceit that was a direct reflection of carter administration polices. 16 years earlier.

Jaded apathetic youth who only enjoy going ohhhhh burn because I screwed up a  fact from childhood a worthless wastes of our national resources, for the life of me I can't understand why we spend tax dollars and mandate incresed eduction for those who don't care.

I may disagree with frankies point of view and beliefs but at least he forms them based upon educated researched information and life experiences.

OK lets see ... why is 21% interest rate bad ... Oh ... your house payments are high ... aaaaa OK ... you do know that houses will be cheaper if interest rate is higher and takes more people out of the buying pool right ... OK ... its terrible for sellers, but good for buyers ... OK ... now here is another twist ... interest rates should be a reflection of the rate of inflation. If interest rates are 21% inflation is running at ~20%. So, you'd save $ and get 19% interest ... also, your wages will be adjusting with inflation. If you are in that house in a year or 2 your wages will ratchet up to the point where you feel its an insignificant part of that $ your house is taking up.
What is bad is what we have had the last few years ... real inflation is close to 8-10%, artificially low interest rates at ~5% and saving interest rates ar 2-3% ... not the tight 1 point spread, and definetly not indicative of anything ... AKA ... inflating a bubble ine the name of "ownership society".
Bush should ahve reigned in greenspan. Forced him to increase interest rates to prevent short term paper market form funding long term purchase financing, had the interest rates float to where inflation is, and let the market take it from there. Houses will no longer have provided the option of a get rich quick scheme, and people will ahve had to look at beyond the introduction payments ... a long history of poor fiscal policy had the whole "how much is it a month" crowd headed right down to the slaughter ...
Cool.
Buddha.