GM going down the toilet???

[shiznizbiz]

true, it'd be amusing to say the least.

[jserio]

the biggest concern i have for the "big 3" failing is american jobs. i read somewhere that if GM fails, it will loose somewhere around 2.5 milliion jobs. then an additional 700k jobs from 3rd party suppliers etc that cater to GM. and that's just one of the big 3. i'm gonna venture to say that all 3 of them combined it's probably more than 5 million jobs at stake here. we are in a very tough position in this situation. there is no simple answer for it either.

[bikejunkie223]

The problem is those stats are being put forth by the United Autoworkers Union and they are the ones who would be out on their asses so I have to believe those numbers to be inflated more than a little. They really should blame themselves- if they hadn't held the domestic manufacturers feet to the coals so many times they might be in a better position to stay in business. The other thing I don't get is the idea these jobs would evaporate. Sure some would go, but if there suddenly was no more big 3 other manufacturers are going to have their volume increase due to less competition in the market. People aren't going to not buy cars because some American car companies that were run into the ground failed- they will just buy from Toyota and Honda and so forth. Once volume for other manufacturers increases they will need to ramp up production and there are more jobs. This idea that all these auto workers got union jobs and think that they basically have them forever with regular wage increases and pensions and the like is a failed business model. People lose their jobs and you find a new one or learn to do something else- I've had the rug pulled out from under me and I persevered. The UAW spent so many years holding a gun to the big 3's head that they did more than their fair share to make those companies unprofitable, and when you combine that with the staggering ineptitude of grossly overpaid and under delivering management you get 4 rich bastards flying in separate, private jets to Washington to beg for their share of our tax dollars to make up for the fact they suck at their jobs and are stuck in contracts that virtually guarantee those 3 companies will never turn a profit with the labor agreements they are stuck with. I know it's harsh but they should all have to go into Chapter 11 and restructure and change the UAW labor agreements to something that is actually good for the company and not just the worker bees running the robots. F those pricks. It's proven the #1 expense for virtually any business is labor costs and when the big 3 are paying $20 more to the UAW per hour than do Honda or Toyota, or other manufacturers how on earth do they think they can survive, especially with inferior product nobody wants because they didn't bother to pay attention to market conditions they just rode the SUV wave all the way into the iceberg.

[shiznizbiz]

Mitt Romney wrote an interesting article about this.  He says he feels the only way to save it is to not give them a bailout.  I agree.  In case no one knew, (i didnt until today) hes the son of the George Romney.  The guy that saved American motors in the 50's i think it was. Any way.  If you get a chance read it.

[yamahonkawazuki]

i think so to. it will tend to discourage mismanagement from the unions down to the CEO and such from happening agian. chrysler has been bailed a few tiems already, i believe ther ophers have as well

[wladziu]

Mitt Romney wrote an interesting article about this. 

Yeah, heard it on NPR.  I think it's called "capitalism".  Weird. 

[bikejunkie223]

chrysler has been bailed a few tiems already, =

They were bailed out once in the mid-early eighties, and Lee Iacocca reduced his salary to $1 a year and paid every cent plus intrest back to the government with a big cardboard check less than 5 years later. The government never expected to see a dime of that again but he turned it around.

[shiznizbiz]

Mitt Romney wrote an interesting article about this. 

Yeah, heard it on NPR.  I think it's called "capitalism".  Weird. 

Naw, this one is rightfully named, "Let Detroit go Bankrupt"

[yamahonkawazuki]

chrysler has been bailed a few tiems already, =

They were bailed out once in the mid-early eighties, and Lee Iacocca reduced his salary to $1 a year and paid every cent plus intrest back to the government with a big cardboard check less than 5 years later. The government never expected to see a dime of that again but he turned it around.

good point


http://blog.mises.org/archives/008920.asp and interesting read

[Mdow]

I wouldnt miss GM in the least bit. I hate their products.

yes but your talking about millions of jobs

[yamahonkawazuki]

i often wonder how many of those who hate their products, have either 1 driven, or two owned one>, i wonder. alot of teh animosity toward them, nowadays is considered the cool thing to do lo. i will agree, during a few years ago, tehir quality was not the greatest. if i can find it, there is a stufy/spreadsheet out which shows many american cars beating out the european and osme japanese cars as far as repairs go. over a frame of time

[flyingmachine]

must have been about 5-6 years ago, I read a Wallstreet Journal report on the state of the auto industries between the domestic and foreign auto companies.  The main focus was the stats on $$ spent on pushing the product (advertising, cash rebates, etc..) versus R&D.  The domestic brands ratio was 2.5:1, interesting enough the two Japanese brands studied (Honda, Toyota) was the exact opposite.  Every dollar they spend on branding, rebates, kickbacks, and incentives, they spent 2.5 on some sort of R&D.  I think that speak volumes on part of the cause of the current state of affairs. 

[yamahonkawazuki]

youve got a point there. cetain htings like heavy duty trucks, ill buy american, because no japanese exist. and wouldbe pricey as well. BUT i gotta admit dollar for dollar if it came ot small trucks, id go jap. all but three were. ( of my vehicles._ ive had many)

i wont touch kia until theyve been around at least ten years here ( and its gettign clost to that now )

[bikejunkie223]

As a self labeled Honda honk I have a few opinions (I'm a tech at a Honda dealer) GM, Chrysler and Ford build some pretty good product. They also build some pretty bad product. From what I have seen as they are traded in is that most of the domestic cars seem to be built on the idea that after 100k they don't give a crap how it performs and if the tranny blows up or it leaks oil like the Exxon Valdez it's not their problem. Honda and Toyota believe their cars should have at least 200k service lives, and we have a bunch of regular customers with double that mileage on some Hondas Built in the early 90's. As far as trucks go, mine is a Dodge because I got a great deal on it and the Ridgleine's bed just isn't big enough for my needs, otherwise I'd have one of those. I think the big 3 spent too much time focusing on trucks and while they make a great truck, people don't want them anymore and the neglected part of the market (cars) is where nearly all of the crappy product is, I can't think of 1 car GM makes that is even interesting to me beside the new Camaro (if it's ever released, no hurry GM you have only been pimping it for 3 years and now the modern musclecar market has all but shriveled up to nothing) and the Corvette. We are all ragging on GM, but Chrysler and Ford are both just as screwed.