For anyone who thinks Canada has a good healthcare system...

[makenzie71]

...or any other nation "socialist healthcare" system, for that matter:

http://www.scrapbook.com/forums/showpost.php?post/9488833/

[Revere2]

Amen my brother. Say it loud and spread the word far and wide!!!!!!

[frankieG]

that happens once in a while. however they are still getting treatment and it still is free.  in America we have millions uninsured so that child would just die or the parents would go into bankruptcy.  this is proof that Canada's system is for the patient and not money for the HMO's.

[makenzie71]

Free treatment doesn't mean it's "good" treatment.  And no, in America, if it's deemed a matter of life anything necessary is done, whether the parents can pay for it or not.  That doesn't mean "bankruptcy"...it may mean spending their life in debt...but, either way, you'll have a hard time finding someone who can put a monetary value on their child's life and they'd NEVER have to be shipped to another country for something so moronic as this.

[yamahonkawazuki]

that happens once in a while. however they are still getting treatment and it still is free.  in America we have millions uninsured so that child would just die or the parents would go into bankruptcy.  this is proof that Canada's system is for the patient and not money for the HMO's.

actually it is NOT free lol, think taxes my friend think taxes

[Toogoofy317]

I've experienced our "wonderful" healthcare here in Florida and it SUCKS ASS! I was diagnosed with a serious heart disease at 21 was sent to Shand's hosptial at the University of Florida. They told me nothing was wrong and to live my life how I wanted to. I was actually defibrillated at their hospital and was released to drive three hours home by myself! Got to my local doctor found I was bleeding out through my leg from their cath and had burn marks on my back and chest from defib pads. After constant fighting with insurance I got referred to Boston to see a specialist there found out I had four of six risk factors for sudden cardiac arrest and was in dire need for a defibrillator. Had to fly back down to Fl to get the referral. The day before I was to fly out got a call from the insurance co. saying the referral had been rejected because my doctors were getting a divorce and their id number might change before Monday. Even with insurance I'm over $100,000 in debt and lost a job because of the debt! When I was layed off in 2006 I lost my insurance and no doctor would touch me. I was in heart failure and could not get my defibrillator interrogated to make sure it was working properly. Went to the ER nothing they could do and if you ain't got insurance they get you to the point that you won't crash and kick you out.  I was discharged with a blood pressure of 69/30 and could not stand without dizziness or passing out. I applied for disability and was told that I was not eligible because I was educated and I can talk on a phone! In the meantime they were evaluating me for a heart transplant. Because I didn't have great insurance I had to go back to Shand's to get evaluated for a heart transplant. All the while I had a recalled defibrillator that could fail at anytime that had to be replaced as well. The only thing the company paid for was another device nothing for the surgery or the missed work time! So, Shand's once again told me my heart problem was all in my head and refused to speak to my specialist in Boston. The day after they replaced my defibrillator I was discharged in CHF and low blood pressure. I passed out in my room ten minutes before the nurse discharged me! I could not drive home and noone could drive three hours to get me and my car. My hospital roommate's family took me in and the next day I went into severe heart failure and spent three weeks in ICU at another hospital! I went to the department of children and family to apply for foodstamps and was flat out told that they don't help single people that if I got pregnant they would better be able to serve me .

So our system is very broken!!!!!!!!! I haven't even gotten to other issues yet. Being that after three years I did get disability but I still have to work because it is not enough to live on or I still have to pay 20% of all bills. I.E a defib surgery which I will need to have every 5-7 years for the rest of my life is $75,000 so 20% is $15.000 and I don't even get $12000 a year! But that is the American way!

Sorry but this hit a very raw spot right now.
Mary

[yamahonkawazuki]

Mary, hun ive got a feeling youve got problems no matter which system would be in place. as do i lol. i use thelocal county health department, which is a pain in the ass. BUT i get to see a doc. and tehse two er visits . oth of which were due to MVA's and teh other driver paid them , BUT when i went into ARF ( acute renal failure) that dinner was on my plate only. and thanks to the ( at thetime) liberls in teh tennessee state govt. most of the peopel who NEEDED insurance were cut off. now ive read that socialised medicine has a LOW overhead. like medicare. BUT this govt for several decades now has shown a distinct inability to do ANYTHING right. well i take that back, the only thign they can do irght is to f%$k up something

[Toogoofy317]

I'm not saying Canadian is the way to go either. But American is broke too! I didn't even qualify for the health department's help because I was still trying to work. Florida is seriously screwed up! There needs to be a way that everybody can get insurance so they can go see a doctor. Last time I was in the ER with heart failure I had to wait six hours to get in. The lady next to me had her three kids there to get their school physicals because they did not have health insurance and was the only way to get them in school. Then you've got a good portion of the waiting room filled with illegal immigrants that can't get insurance and know they have to be treated. So, when 2/3 of the ED is filled with people who don't need emergency treatment it makes it that much worse for those who do.

Mary

[makenzie71]

Mary, believe me, I don't feel our system is a great one, but I do believe that socialized healthcare will make it far worse.  Think about it...the way Canada's system works, the way our good Democrats want OUR system to work, you have to go where the Government tells you to go for treatment.  Being in Gainesville, they'd likely have told you to go to Shand's.  Shand's thought you were imagining it all and would have told the government as much.  With no money to pay up front at a private practice, you'd have been stuck.  And likely dead.

Our system IS broken, but it can be repaired.  Modeling ourselves after nations who all have higher mortality rates just so every Tom, duck, and Joe can go to the doctor for free is going to be catastrophic.

[The Buddha]

Socialised health care will be a disaster ... think its $$$ now, wait till its "free". Think its bad now, wait till its universal. Simple reason it will be worse here than in canada or anywhere ... illegal aliens. In fact europe is closing that road down very very rapidly. In fact the anchor babies and people scurrying across the border will all sky rocket if we had universal health care.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Toogoofy317]

That's why I'm thinking that we should go for an option that we can all get health care. Granted I only am covered 80% but that does take care of alot. If we could just make the insurance more manageable for people to get. I just think it should be mandatory I guess. Kinda like having insurance on your car. I also think that the sky rocketing medical costs need to be controlled or competitive. If I knew up front who was charging what for what procedure then I would chose more accordingly esp. if I could see their rate of success as well. Many doctors believe that the patient should not be educated and myself have many get irate for me knowing my condition as good or better then them and when they are wrong I let them know. Such as my heart problem is not Idiopathic hypertrophic subaortic Stenosis or IhSS. It is Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy or HCM and has been called that for at least ten years! So yeah if you can't even get the name of my disease right I am going to challenge you on what you know. Sorry docs you're not God you may think you are but you aren't!

Another thing that gets me is pharmaceuticals my pain patch is $300 a month for ten patches and that is generic! Name brand would be $600. I know they have to cover development costs but the generic providers really don't right? They could save a ton of money by not advertising constantly! I would love to read a magazine without 1/3 of it being pharmaceutical ads or watch one TV program without seeing some old guy singing "Viva Viagra".

Also, why does medicare and medicaid cover viagra? It is interesting to note that in 1999 only 11,056 AIDS cases were reported in people over 45 and in 2003 315,309! Who is gonna pay for grandpa getting his viagra medicare and who is gonna pay the huge cost of treating AIDS medicare. Which in turn means the tax payers! And honestly if I see another Erectile Dysfunction commercial I'm never gonna touch a man again. Ok maybe I lied there but damn you'd think that it was some kind of global pandemic!

Mary

[hotrodstu77]

our health care is pretty good. here in london we have many amazing doctors and surgeons that specialize in thier respective fields, and yes we pay more taxes but its worth it to know you can go into emerge anytime for anything (provided you have to usually wait in triage for 4 hours before seeing a doctor). we do have alot of overcrowding issues but it fluctutes all the time. we arent constantly busy just most of  the time.

[flyingmachine]

The US desperately need to improve our health care system. 

http://unitas.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/ranking-of-world-health/

I actually have friends from France who choose not to immigrate their parents to the US cause they would not be able to support their health care here.  My old roommate while visiting Japan had a bit of an emergency (mauled by a dog), told them not to send an ambulance ( he was still paying off his bill from an ambulance ride in the state), little did he know that was free coverage provided by the state.  Anyways, we are definitely not getting proper return on our health care $ since we pretty much out spend the rest of the world.

[makenzie71]

flyingmachine...we do spend a great deal of money on our healthcare system...but that's because we have a good system that the rest of the world abuses (some parts of the world FAR MORE than others).  If you don't believe, next time you're in Texas swing by and I'll provide you with all the proof you need.  As Sr*n*th says, our system is already abused...if they make it a social system in which unbiased care is administered by the government the ER won't be the only place swamped with illegal immigrants.

Now, I know that not all illegal immigrants take advantage of our medical system, but a great many do.  On top of that, there's believed to be ten times as many natural citizens here taking advantage of our system...it's all not right and it does need to be adjusted.  Right now, there's believed to be 11% of our population being an unneccessary financial burden to our medical system.  That's basically the population of Canada in it's self.

I don't believe social healthcare is a good thing for a capitolist society.  I have a lot of good reasons for my belief but I'll post them this afternoon.  Bottom line is, a social healthcare system means we have no choice but to support people who do not deserve it, and when I am charitable I damned well want it to be because I am charitable, not because Uncle Sam says I'll go to jail if I am not.

[The Buddha]

I believe doctors should have their prices up on the board. You can then shop around.
Also doctors will say their rate is 100 bucks a visit. Then you find out insurance pre agreed rates are like 20 bucks. That however do not prevent them from charging you the 100.
In a way, the doctors are scamming us. If they were to charge the same rates for walk in as well as insurance, no one will buy insurance. We wont need to unless we live in the doctors office or ER. Same scam goes on everywhere. Hospitals, doctors labs, ambulances etc etc etc ... in fact they should be forced to charge the same price for walkin's as well as insurance comapnies. 90% of the insurance problems will go away.
Cool.
Buddha.