Hey you science types...

[makenzie71]

I need a compound that is extremely flamable that can be had from rearranging common elements and compounds in our atmosphere.

and....go.

[Jeppy]

What are you going to use it for?

[Majorhavoc]

I need a compound that is extremely flamable that can be had from rearranging common elements and compounds in our atmosphere.

and....go.

The atmosphere is full of water vapor, which electrolizes to hydrogen and oxygen, a highly combustable mix.  Does that count?

The air is also over 70% nitrogen, which I'm sure you could combine with oxygen and other elements to make the nitrates common to fertilizers and high explosives.

This question is strictly for academic purposes, right?

[makenzie71]

it's a literature thing.

I was hoping for something along the lines of the use of nitrogen just because of how abundant it is.  Oygen is an obvious thing but I wasn't sure if it burns in it's purest form, or what the result of that combustion would be.  I thought about hydrogen, which would be a decent idea, but the volume needed to produce a fire is unrealistic.

The goal here is to use an unrealistic means (think magic) to transform atmosphere into a realistic, combustable compound.  Our atmosphere is primarily oygen and nitrogen...mostly nitrogen.  I'm hoping for something along those lines, and I'd like to avoid the use of hydrogen...otherwise I'd go for hno3 or hno4 (I can't remember which is combustable).

Does nitrogen and oxygen, in any arrangement amongst the two, form something that is, by itself, highly combustable?

[Majorhavoc]

You mean you're writing a story?  That's cool.

Years ago, I read a nonfiction book I believe was titled "Trinity", about the Manhattan Project, the making of and testing of the first atomic bomb in the New Mexico desert during the Second World War. 

In the weeks leading up to the test detonation at Los Alamos, there was a minority view among the scientists that a nuclear blast might ignite the gasses in the Earth's atmosphere and, you know, . . . . destroy all life on the planet. 

The decision was made to proceed with the test, and obviously the atmosphere didn't ignite.  (Although the heat of the explosion melted the silica in the desert sand and supposedly formed a vast glass bowl lining parts of the crater; an ironically beautiful image, I always thought).  The rest, for better or worse, is history.

So if you're looking to describe a somewhat plausable scenario, you might try researching either that book or some other discussion of those early issues/concerns.

[The Buddha]

it's a literature thing.

I was hoping for something along the lines of the use of nitrogen just because of how abundant it is.  Oygen is an obvious thing but I wasn't sure if it burns in it's purest form, or what the result of that combustion would be.  I thought about hydrogen, which would be a decent idea, but the volume needed to produce a fire is unrealistic.

The goal here is to use an unrealistic means (think magic) to transform atmosphere into a realistic, combustable compound.  Our atmosphere is primarily oygen and nitrogen...mostly nitrogen.  I'm hoping for something along those lines, and I'd like to avoid the use of hydrogen...otherwise I'd go for hno3 or hno4 (I can't remember which is combustable).

Does nitrogen and oxygen, in any arrangement amongst the two, form something that is, by itself, highly combustable?

Oh yea, easy. 3 nitrogens added to a ch3-c6h5 form this nice litte beast called, tri nitro toluene.
Acetone, methane, methanol, ethanol, propane, butane, etc etc etc are all basically going to get easier to make with the extra Carbon di oxide in our air.
You almost need carbon I'd say, the basic effect of any combustion is to turn it into the oxygenated element.
Burn anything and you'd get CO2, NO2, and H2O. Which is why the air is full of those things.
OK so without carbon I have to think.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

Oh yea, if you can do this you'd a billionaire, no make that trillionaire.
Hydrogen is 1 proton, 1 neutron and 1 electron. Helium is 2 protons, 2 electrons and 2 neutrons. So 2 hydrogen atoms = 1 Helium atom. Simple right. Here is the extra kicker. Hydrogen is present as H2 in the atmosphere and in water molecules too. What is even better is if you pull the hydrogen out of the water the oxygen that comes off is pure and we can breathe it and we will be in an oxygen rich atmosphere, and we have beautiful complexion like Michael Jackson. That remaining hydrogen when we make helium will give off lots of energy and its very very safe energy. Then when you release the helium instead of stuffing it in a balloon you can just let it into the air and it will be very very unreactive and get this, best of all it will break off and just float into the upper upper atmosphere. Heck you can put it in a container and fly balloons for intercontinental transport too or just let it fly away. Win win.

So, Take water, you can do it with dirty sewer water, break it with electrolysis, only water will break, the solids will become a sediment and it will be less bulky and can just be left dry and then used as fertiliser, then breathe the Oxygen, make hydrogen into helium and take the energy it gives off and fill the helium in air lift balloons and transport things across long distances.

Only catch - H2 to He is called fusion and it happens everyday right in front of our eyes, but we have not figured out how to do it. It occours in the sun, but we dont have a clue how to do it. In the sun however it goes on and on, the sun has fusion of helium X 2 becoming neon, and neon X 2 becoming this and that and what not ... till the sun is mostly metal, as that metal starts to cool and covers more and more of the suns surface it will turn it into a red giant, that red giant which has a very very hot core will burn and burn inside till it makes so much pressure inside, it will blow the shell ... supernova and that will now start making heavier and heavier metals combining the heavy metals and finally it will turn into a black hole.

Cool.
Buddha.

[makenzie71]

Well, though not directly, you pretty well summed it up for me, Sr***th.  The process by which this is happening in my writing is by means of complete control of an element at the atomic level...so I guess it doesn't matter if it's something easily produced from the given elements within the atmosphere...just rearrange the protons/nuetrons and you get a new substance all together.

Like I said...unrealistic means...

Now it's just a matter of deciding on a simple compound (preferably a liquid) that is stable but highly combustable.

[Weston]

Nitroglycerine! It does have carbon in it but... still...

[yamahonkawazuki]

Nitroglycerine! It does have carbon in it but... still...

Its as stable as buddha after a hard bender Eh?

[The Buddha]

Well, though not directly, you pretty well summed it up for me, Sr***th.  The process by which this is happening in my writing is by means of complete control of an element at the atomic level...so I guess it doesn't matter if it's something easily produced from the given elements within the atmosphere...just rearrange the protons/nuetrons and you get a new substance all together.

Like I said...unrealistic means...

Now it's just a matter of deciding on a simple compound (preferably a liquid) that is stable but highly combustable.

I guess I should be flattered y'all remember my real name and old handle. But its like getting in the way of my anonymity.

We used to do experiments in chemistry obviously way back when ... literally, we can separate carbon from CO2 by lighting up magnesium, put sugar on a candle wick, put a drop of sulphuric acid and it will light up the candle with its attack on the water in sugar.

Stable and combustible - ironic, vaseline. It will light up under water, under snow, under anything. Vaseline, cotton and flintstones = fire.

When I was a teenager, I'd coat kite strings with powdered glass, sulphur, powdered flintstones, magnesium and plaster of paris among other things and use it to cut down other kites. Now that in itself was no big deal, it was pretty common but I had the added benifit of being an engineering student with a serious love for fluid mechanics. I used to live in an area where there were a lot of kite flyers, and the year I figured out how to do it it was a very dark few years for everyone in my neighborhood. On some weekends I have cut down in excess of a 100 barely losing 1-2. Now to further exacerbate this dominance I actually had a technique where I'd cut the other string in seconds at first contact instead of fight on for hours on end.

Cool.
Buddha.

[makenzie71]

what's the formula for vaseline?

[ke7syv]

what's the formula for vaseline?

The substance consists of saturated hydrocarbons with carbon numbers mainly higher than 25. Its composition depends upon the petroleum source and refining process. Highly refined (White Petrolatum) grades are used in pharmacy and cosmetics. Less refined grades (Yellow, amber or brown Petrolatum) are used industrially and may contain impurities such as carcinogenic polycyclic aromatics.

[ohgood]

what's the formula for vaseline?

one part oil company byproduct, two million parts marketing dollar.

yep. that simple.

[makenzie71]

Here's a different one for all you science types...actually two:

Can a nuclear weapon be detonated mechanically?  That's the say absolutely no electronic control?

Second, and most complicated, at what distance from the earth (dead center) would an object with a mass of 9.43 ± 0.07×1020 kg have to be to enter a permanent orbit?

[The Buddha]

Here's a different one for all you science types...actually two:

Can a nuclear weapon be detonated mechanically?  That's the say absolutely no electronic control?

Second, and most complicated, at what distance from the earth (dead center) would an object with a mass of 9.43 ± 0.07×1020 kg have to be to enter a permanent orbit?

Detination can be and is always mechanical. However it needs to be atleast as far as I know built up electronically.
Sorta like a motor can be started without the starter. It does work just fine, but usually we have the starter.
Its triggered by accelerating some particle in a particle accelerator AKA a cyclotron or a hadron collider like in germany/switzerland and rammed into a U238 or some other nice ripe bugger. That will spawn a ton of energy a bunch of this and that, U235 mainly and 3 very very fast (speed of light minus a hair) neutrons. Those neutrons hit a U238 each which causes more energy and more neutrons etc etc etc.
For orbitting - mass is irrelevant if I remember (GM/r sq and is that gravitational force felt by that object - I have to work it out a bit better - but you mean 10 power 20Kg ? WTF, isn't that heavier than the earth.
Essentially GM/rXr = vXv/r or omega sq r. Omega is the radians per sec it will cover with respect to the center of the earth. With earth covering 360 in 24 hours, put that in for omega, we know M which is mass of the thing, G is gravitrational constant and you get the height of a geo stationary orbit. Any faster it will get dragged outward, any slower it will be pulled inward. It wont be permanent if its getting inward cos it will decay and collapse into the earth. So, you need geostationary or higher and unless its got power, navigation etc it will not be able to sustain a non goe stationary orbit. There you have it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[makenzie71]

It's nice to not be able to understand one of your posts for a completely different reason, maestro.

I know that the actual detonation is a physical (mechanical) process, but I'm just curious if it can be initiated without electricity of any kind.  The idea is would a nuclear weapon detonate if faced with something like an unrealistically powerful electromagnetic field?  Could the bomb be detonated similarly to how old-school fused bombs worked?

I'm going to pm you concerning the rest...

[Weston]

Sure it can. Look at the "gun type" nuclear bomb, such as the "little boy" bomb dropped on heroshima. I bet that design could be modified to somthing as simple as lighting a fuse.

[makenzie71]

I think the gun barrel bombs may be plausible, but I don't know what the velocity of the uranium would need to be in order to reach critical mass on impact.  Impact would also have to be pretty precise in order to sandwich the uranium in there properly.

the idea is akin to firing a nuclear weapon at the moon, but absolutely no electrical devices are allowed within 15,000 miles of the moon's surface.

[PuddleJumper]

Hi Mak,

If you are using magic in a story to make a big boom, why not take a cloud which is water vapor and separate it into Oxygen and Hydrogen? they will already be mixed and the two together make a big boom.

BeSafe
PJ