Front Wheel Angle/Alignment [updates]

[nikux]

Last weekend I finally got to install the Progressive springs and 15w oil in the front fork. I took the front forks off and installed the new spring, but when I was trying to put them back in the fork spacing braces would just not fit. I could get three screws in but the 4th one would just not align. Giving up on them, I tried to force install the wheel hoping that it would align everything. The wheels did go in, with an effort, but now for one, its totally misaligned. The handle bar is not at right angles with the wheel. To keep the bike straight, I have to keep the handlebar at an angle. I also feel a small wobble, probably because of the alignment.

I will be re-doing everything with a fresh mind, but two questions..

1. anyone has any idea why might have gone wrong?
2. Is possible that my forks are bend?

[GeeP]

Your front end is out of alignment, as you suggest. 

Lift the front end off the ground, loosen the four triple clamp bolts and back them out until you can turn them with your fingers.  Kick the left side, then the right side of the front wheel while holding the bars.  Be sure both the left and right fork tube extend though the top triple by the same amount.  (2-3mm is the spec, I believe)

This is usually sufficient to get everything square again.  Check your fork brace for alignment.  If everything fits, re-tighten the triple clamp bolts.

[Danny500]

Are you positive your spacers are IDENTICAL in length left and right? Also, did you measure your oil level from the top of the tube to the top of the level in the tube and are they the same? Did you do that with the forks FULLY COMPRESSED? When re-installing the caps were you sure both tubes were FULLY EXTENDED?

It sounds like you're air-bound in one of the forks.

Here's what you do...

Park the bike on the center stand with the back end facing a wall, or a car bumper, or something heavy... Use a strap (or rope) and tie it to the rear passanger bar then tie it to the bumper or what-have-you so that the front end is COMPELTELY off the ground... basically you want the center stand and the rear tire are on the ground. (for safety keep the bike in 1st gear).

Now... here we go.

1. Keep the front wheel, fender, brake, and fork brace ON.
2. Remove the handlebars.
3. Loosen the TOP of the fork braces (the alan bolts)
4. Remove the caps on the forks.
5. Remove the spacers (also any washers between the plug and the top of the spacers).
6. Make a dipstick out of a piece of dowell or wood. Mark off 5".

For the next step, you must allow the front end to become FULLY compressed. So, release the rear tie-down and let the bike sag allllllll the way down to bottom out. You, then, NEED to REMOVE the springs. Be careful compressing the legs because if you've over-filled the tubes with oil, it will overflow... if you DO begin to overflow... start removing oil before lowering any further. (I use a tie-down strap when doing this so it's easy to stop the bike at any point with the clamp.)

7. Place the dipstick in the fork tube (one side at a time) to the mark you made... if you pull it out and there's any oil on it, you've put too much in. Use a turkey-baster or brake bleeder to remove the oil until you're at the 5" mark... if you can look into the fork and the oil level is too low, add some to the 5" mark.
8. Once you've got the oil level straight tie down the rear of the bike again to bring the front wheel alllll the way up.

At this point, pull on the shocks to ensure they're both fully extended, left and right.

9. Loosen the lower clamps (the 14mm bolt on the bottom tree) just loose enough to hold the tube from sliding out.
10. Adjust both tubes to the EXACT top of the top plate (the plate the handlebars bolt to.)
11. Snug up the bolts on the lower clamps.
12. Install the springs.
13. Ensure there is a washer between the spring and the spacer (the spacer should be at least 120mm long i run mine at 125mm).
14. Install them and place another washer (if you haven't already) ontop of them before installing the plugs.
15. Install the plugs, tighten up all bolts to spec, upper and lower. Re-install rubber caps on the plugs.

9-15 MUST BE DONE WITH THE FRONT WHEEL OFF THE GROUND!!!!!

Now, things should be all set. If you're still experiencing a problem... then you're air-locked down in your valves in the shock itself. But, if you pumped the shocks when you re-filled them with oil initially, you should be fine.

Like I said, they're probably mis-matched and air-bound if you installed everything with the tire wheel off.

Good luck! 

[sledge]

It sounds like you're air-bound in one of the forks.

?...... thats a new one on me.

[gsJack]

Having the handlebars missaligned with the front wheel happens often on a GS.  Dropping the bike usually twists the front end that way.  Just loosen up the triple clamps holding the forks, the fork brace, and sometimes the big nut on top of the steering stem and it all goes back in place if nothing is bent.  Never heard of an air-bound fork.

When putting the Progressive springs in the GS you need 3/4" spacers in each fork in place of the long stock ones and the oil level should be 5 1/2" from the top of the fork tube with the fork compressed.  Short spacers can be cut from the long ones.

[GeeP]

A fork problem might explain the tracking and shuddering problems....

But it wouldn't explain why his handle bars aren't perpendicular to his front wheel!

[nikux]

So after a full days worth of work some problem still exists . I basically redid everything, it was like installing the springs all over again, but this time I did not close the fork cap before installing them, also made sure that the oil is at around 5 1/2" from the top.

On the Positive:
1. I now think that the tire is mostly perpendicular to the handlebar - It rides straight.
2. The spring response is great!

On the Negative:
1. However, the front tire wants to go to the right. When ever I leave my hands the bike starts to lean on one side. I need to give pressure on the right side to keep it going straight. Disappointed, I decided to redo everything again, and did. The handlebars were again at right angles to the tire BUT this time it started leaning towards left. That is now I need to keep a constant pressure on the left side of the handle bar to keep it going straight. If i leave my hands it leans towards the other side
2. I did notice my forks are very slightly bend.

So is it because of the 'slight' bend of the fork? Do I seek professional advice.. after having replaced the engine myself, I really feel sad I am not able to fix this alignment.

Btw, I had changed my rear shocks also last time, so could it be that rear is not aligned properly.

[GeeP]

If the fork tubes are bent, that's your problem!

[nikux]

Its a very slight bend, moreover, things were fine with the previous spring.... 

[GeeP]

When you removed the fork tubes, the bends were no longer in the same axis.

Even a few thousandths runout on the fork tubes can cause the bearings to bind.

[Danny500]

Yep, sounds like the forks were the main problem...

And yes, they are also bent... soo.. here's a trick that may get you tracking straight.

Take the fork tubes completely out (no need to re-open them this time).

Using a straight edge (carpenters square, level, anything straight and as long as the exposed fork from top of seals to top of tube) roll around the tube and see where the bend is. If BOTH tubes are bent the SAME AMOUNT (which SHOULD be the case hopefully...) ensure them that they're installed facing the same direction.

For instance... Face the outer-most convexed part of the bend towards the FRONT of the bike or BACK of the bike on BOTH sides... this should keep your wheel straight, though it will pitch slightly more inwards or outwards depending on how you mount it...

But L/R should be fixed... if you notice it tracking off again... or if you notice that only 1 of the tubes is bent, keeping the tubes on the bike, simply loosen the bent fork and rotate a 1/4 turn clockwise (from top of trees looking down) then re-tighten and go for a ride... if this helped but isn't perfect, go another 1/4... if it WORSENED, to BACK a 1/4 to where it was and then go counter-clockwise a 1/4 turn.

It's a pain in the ass and you'd be smart to look for a good condition used set of forks.. but this may give you a temporary fix to get you tracking straight.

[nikux]

Thanks Danny, I'll try that.

So after reading other posts about bend fork I see that my two viable options are 1. Straighten Them or 2. Buy some good used ones.

So anyone one with any idea where to get them straightened in San Diego area?
Or anyone having a good pair for a resonable price?

[sledge]

Yep, sounds like the forks were the main problem...

And yes, they are also bent... soo.. here's a trick that may get you tracking straight.

Take the fork tubes completely out (no need to re-open them this time).

Using a straight edge (carpenters square, level, anything straight and as long as the exposed fork from top of seals to top of tube) roll around the tube and see where the bend is. If BOTH tubes are bent the SAME AMOUNT (which SHOULD be the case hopefully...) ensure them that they're installed facing the same direction.

For instance... Face the outer-most convexed part of the bend towards the FRONT of the bike or BACK of the bike on BOTH sides... this should keep your wheel straight, though it will pitch slightly more inwards or outwards depending on how you mount it...

But L/R should be fixed... if you notice it tracking off again... or if you notice that only 1 of the tubes is bent, keeping the tubes on the bike, simply loosen the bent fork and rotate a 1/4 turn clockwise (from top of trees looking down) then re-tighten and go for a ride... if this helped but isn't perfect, go another 1/4... if it WORSENED, to BACK a 1/4 to where it was and then go counter-clockwise a 1/4 turn.

It's a pain in the ass and you'd be smart to look for a good condition used set of forks.. but this may give you a temporary fix to get you tracking straight.

yeah but.......tell us more about air-bound forks.

[GeeP]

Any machine shop worth it's salt can pull a minor bend out of your fork tubes and get them back to +-.001" TIR pretty easily.

If the chrome is good on them, it might be worth going that route unless you could find another set of forks from a GStwinner.

[Danny500]

yeah but.......tell us more about air-bound forks.

Air binding happens when you don't have the proper air cushion inside the fork tube. The technical term may not be called "air bound" but it's pretty damn close.

What happens is, if you re-install the cap on the forks when they're compressed, that is as tall as they'll ever be due to the system being air-tight... You can TRY to extend the fork leg, but it won't because there's no way to introduce more air into the shock. Most off-road bikes like the KLR650 have air nozzles at the tops of their fork tubes on the nut. This isn't there to put an air compressor on! This is there to adjust the amount of air in the shock between fully extended and fully collapsed. It simply effects compression damping.

That's all the air cushion does is determine how much damping the front compression receives. If you have NO air cushion your shocks won't compress simply because the oil doesn't compress: it's a constant.

The whole issue is that you want both shocks to be equal at all times. Same spring, same oil level (at fully compressed) and same air level (at fully extended).

His issue was that since he installed the springs and oil OFF the bike he had no way to gauge if both shocks were fully extended when installing the top cap... normally you push DOWN on the top cap to screw it in, if he was doing this with the shock on the floor once he got the cap on it was probably compressed beyond full extension.

That's why you always install the springs, spacer, and top cap once everything's bolted onto the front end with the wheel off the ground. It simply ensures that everything is square.

Now... the oil you must install off the bike due to having to pump the shock to get all the old oil out and to ensure the new oil is filling the shock body completely.

So if you install the caps on the forks when they're off the bike (even with the proper oil level, springs and spacers) you run a high chance of having miss-matched air cushions which leaves them air-bound.

That's the best I can describe air-binding... both shocks being unequal due to mis-matched air pockets or oil level thus leading to: inability to move their full stroke, one shock being physically shorter/longer on compression stroke than the other, or simply so much damping that the shocks are air-locked. 

[sledge]

oh ok.......    BTW ever though of going into politics?

[Danny500]

oh ok.......    BTW ever though of going into politics?

What does that even mean? Lol... 

[nikux]

Some updates on my forking ordeal ....

So, I did order a pair of used forks, but turns out they are bent too (the seller says its in shipping, but whatever)... given that i have to take a 1200mile trip starting next week, I didnt have time to look for another set of forks. I tired the solution suggested by Danny (below), and the L/R drift is almost gone, i'd say its 99.5% running straight. I marked where the bent was, and then had the convex surface point backwards in both the forks.

I know I am fine temporary, but can this be also a final solution?
If both the forks are bent slightly outwards, will it create a problem in riding in future?
Or should I get them straight (a $60 deal at a machine shop), and then only go for the long trip?

Nikhil

Yep, sounds like the forks were the main problem...

And yes, they are also bent... soo.. here's a trick that may get you tracking straight.

Take the fork tubes completely out (no need to re-open them this time).

Using a straight edge (carpenters square, level, anything straight and as long as the exposed fork from top of seals to top of tube) roll around the tube and see where the bend is. If BOTH tubes are bent the SAME AMOUNT (which SHOULD be the case hopefully...) ensure them that they're installed facing the same direction.

For instance... Face the outer-most convexed part of the bend towards the FRONT of the bike or BACK of the bike on BOTH sides... this should keep your wheel straight, though it will pitch slightly more inwards or outwards depending on how you mount it...

But L/R should be fixed... if you notice it tracking off again... or if you notice that only 1 of the tubes is bent, keeping the tubes on the bike, simply loosen the bent fork and rotate a 1/4 turn clockwise (from top of trees looking down) then re-tighten and go for a ride... if this helped but isn't perfect, go another 1/4... if it WORSENED, to BACK a 1/4 to where it was and then go counter-clockwise a 1/4 turn.

It's a pain in the ass and you'd be smart to look for a good condition used set of forks.. but this may give you a temporary fix to get you tracking straight.

[jeremy_nash]

if you've got it tracking straight, and it doesn't shake anymore, I wouldn't worry about it.