GSXR Front End ( Not Katana FE ) For Sale

[Big Shot]

Alright, later tonight came a lot sooner than i thought it would.  It's cold outside!!!  I detest the cold!!!  So here i am   

First off, i just want to say that i have nothing but the utmost respect for you Buddha.  Like your name implies, you have enlightened us all here on the forums with your years of experience wrenching on bikes/the GS.  And without your willingness to share it, i wouldn't be able to post this info here today.     X a Keg!



I'd pitch in here and say at least 3 things that make this less than 1000 times nicer than a Kat FE.

No one said it was 1000 times better, just 100...



1.  Nothing you do will let you run your gauges in the stock position with the original grommets.  Only a Kat 600 89-95 will work. None of the 750's and not even the later 600's.

The stock position of the gauges is in front of the top triple tree.  I guarantee i can have the GS gauges installed with minimal work there.

With the original grommets?..  Is that really necessary?..  All that matters is if i like it.  Or if the purchaser of this FE likes it.

But, maybe i'm missing something.  Can you post your finished Kat FE with GS gauges installed? 

Including all angles necessary to understand why the Kat FE is better than the GSXR in this regard?


Thanks!



2.  Single caliper. Kat 600 is dual with 4 pistons per. Main advantage is not performance, its brake disk and pad life.  A standard GS can lock its tar no matter what tar you have, past that caliper ain't doing nothing.

OK...  So, the dual disc and pad system of the Katana's FE will reduce the wear and tear on the brake components by half...  (I don't have the testing equipment needed to determine the different set-ups life expectancy, but until you show me some that says otherwise, i'm going to assume it's half.)  So instead of replacing 1 pad a year, i'll be replacing 2 pads ever other year?..  Assuming both FE's pads cost the same, there is no cost saving...  I'm sry, but i'm not seeing a benefit here   

Secondly, about this a whole 1 rotor/caliper issue vs 2 on the Kat.  The GSXR FE that i have for sale can have a 2nd rotor and caliper installed if the purchaser wants too.  But, that's his business and not mine.  And yes, i know it will cost more money so please don't inform me of that fact, i'm well aware.

Also, i had to ask myself why would the guy who i bought this FE from have just one rotor on it.  Since it was used for the race track, my assumption is that it was for weight savings.  He obviously felt that 1 rotor provided him all the braking power that he needed and that the second one would just be extra weight.  Extra weight = bad for going fast.  I know you know that.

And lastly, when you state that, "A standard GS can lock its tar no matter what tar you have, past that caliper ain't doing nothing."  You are absolutely right...  But are so misinforming people!!!  Yes, a GS brake system can lock up the front tire.  And yes, once a tire is locked up whatever additional pressure a caliper can exert on the rotor is useless.  But what about everything up until the point of lock up?  What about brake feel?  What about one doing a better job of letting the user know how close they are to a point of lock up?  Because, when you're letting it all hang out pushing your bike to it's limits you do not want the front tire to lock the f up!!!  I know you know that.

Now, i have read in different places here and there on the net about the EXCELLENT BRAKE FEEL! the braking system on this GSXR FE i have for sale has.  And why shouldn't it?  It was installed on a sport bike!  What about your Kat FE brakes?  Can it make the same claim?  Nope!  The Katana is nothing but a bottom feeder.  It's not a sport bike, it's a look alike!





To sum up the brake issue...

GSXR BRAKES ARE DESIGNED FOR PERFORMANCE

KATANA BRAKES ARE NOT



3.  Fork brace and fender off a GS fit the Kat and look better than the Kat ones. They don't on this.

The GS fork brace and fender fitting the Kat FE i'll take your word for, and assume it is true.  As far as it looking better than the Kat components...  That's your opinion, and not a fact.

Now, since it's just your opinion that the GS components look better on the FE than the Kat ones do, it really is irrelevant that they don't fit on the GSXR and doesn't support your argument.



3.5 - Clip on's under the triple isn't my preferred location. I prefer over the triple. But ... its an old man's opinion.

Agreed...  Sort of.  I'm an old man too or at least i consider myself one.  (34)  Anyways, one thing i liked about the GS is the relaxed non-sport bike like riding position.  But, i have to admit, the ergonomics of this FE on the bike doesn't feel bad to me.  I'm 6'1" tall and have a couple of 89 clip ons that i tried out on the bike which i absolutely hated.  Kinda weird huh?  This FE has a farther reach for me than the 89 clip-ons but it feels better.

As far as installing the clip-ons over the top triple.  That was my first instinct.  (Because i'm an old man)  But the stem prevents the top triple from dropping down any further than where it's at now.  All that needs to be done is reduce the stem diameter to allow the top triple to slide down more or open up the top triple to allow it to slide down more.  This isn't high on my list at the moment but possibly i can see myself doing something with it.



Having said all that, its a good FE. Just dont over sell it. Maybe you should sell it @ the Katana/bandit site also.

Thanks for the advice about the other sites.  When i'm all done turning this into a bolt on for the GS,  if i don't want to keep it for myself, i'll post it up there.

As far as don't over sell it?  No problem.  I'll stop over selling it just as soon as you stop trying to convince people you're offering them the same thing only better.


Thanks, Bob!

[Big Shot]

I really love the warning lights fabbed up into the top triple like that...

Looks real clean 


Bob

[The Buddha]

http://picasaweb.google.com/srinath.the.man/KatFEPics#

This was one I did last year. I have a less intrusive method now. Yes anyone can throw some crap on it, but fitting it without the stock grommets transmits a lot of vibration to the guages making it a little noisy and very bouncy. Hard mounts are not for the chinzy plastic the guages are made from.

You'd prolly weld up tabs and screw it on. The problems with that are ...
1. It will look like crap. This looks like it came from the factory. I powdercoat them black cos welding ruins the clear coat and makes it like it got caramelised. However I ahve a contraption I am making that will work on it without having to weld and will keep the triple looking nice and shiny like stock. However I prefer that all black look though. The problem with either of these 2 methods - it wont work on anything but 89-95 Kat 600 triples.

2. Vibration and subsequent crap falling apart sooner than it would have. Oddly, GS'es have a lot of junk parts on them, but I happen to think they have a beautiful set of guages. Not too eager to ruin those or mangle them to fit a front end. 2 nice symmetric booby shaped guages, cant beat that.

Brakes. Brake wear isn't linear, By your logic, you'd have the same life as a GS caliper/pad combo. Which I know its not. In a gs caliper 75% of the wear is in the inside pad and on the inside of the rotor. The static pad. I suspeck its due to the fact that as you hit the brakes your FE turns left forcing harder contact with that inner pad. 1 caliper with dual opposed pistons will actually make it worse. That's just a theory.

This FE was on a race bike, which actually makes it only marginally suitable for the street.

Octane's bike had a vortex top triple BTW and I believe he had GSXR 600 99-02 forks on his. I know him well, and I have a GSXR 750 I bought off him when I met him, the day werase643 crashed at VIR in 2004 and I am almost sure octane bought the triple already drilled. Otherwise we dont like to drill into our triple clamps.

I have hacked up a lot of front end's for fitting to a GS, the final conclusion for a street GS with everythign requiring to work as intended, and even look like it came from the factory - katana 600 89-95.
Your front end I believe is remarkably similar to a katana 1100 where that lower triple has that stop in front, and the legs are RF600/900  - I have to check to be sure. But on a street bike, everything has to work. Lock, guages, headlight turnsignals - look @ my FE in the other pics, I have working headlight, heck I used the GS500 headlight.

There is a reason the front fender and fork brace need to fit off a GS500. Less parts to buy and ship and paint to match.

Converting a kat 600 89-95 FE onto a GS - You need to buy only 5 parts. Brake system, legs, triple assy with clip on's and axle. Everything else comes from the GS. Better yet, only parts to be modded, used to be stem and top triple, now its just stem, and only part needed that isn't ebay available is the guage grommet carriers. I dunno if I'd make and sell, but I may.

Using GS parts when needed, and leaving other GS parts intact makes for a cheaper conversion, it also makes for a easy reversal. I sold the FE off one bike when I decided that its not getting the 650 motor cos I didn't want to weld to the powdercoated frame.

The point of reference for cost if someone were to compare - the fleabay $$ with shipping for the 5 components I mentioned, + 100 bucks if someone was sending it to me for triple welding or buying carriers off me and stem machining. On a street GS that is what I'd do, and I have over a dozen times.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Big Shot]

http://picasaweb.google.com/srinath.the.man/KatFEPics#

Thanks for posting these.  I'm not sure if you have more, but i'm interested in seeing the actual modified parts/mounting points.


This was one I did last year. I have a less intrusive method now. Yes anyone can throw some crap on it, but fitting it without the stock grommets transmits a lot of vibration to the guages making it a little noisy and very bouncy. Hard mounts are not for the chinzy plastic the guages are made from.

You'd prolly weld up tabs and screw it on. The problems with that are ...
1. It will look like crap.

Uhhhh...  Thanks?


This looks like it came from the factory. I powdercoat them black cos welding ruins the clear coat and makes it like it got caramelised. However I ahve a contraption I am making that will work on it without having to weld and will keep the triple looking nice and shiny like stock. However I prefer that all black look though. The problem with either of these 2 methods - it wont work on anything but 89-95 Kat 600 triples.

It seems to mate up well.  Looks factory-esk.  I'm not a fan of the black myself but you explained why you're doing it.  Was restoring the silver/grey clear coated finish just too much work for you?  And I'm glad to hear you have a new contraption that will give you more flexibility in the future.


2. Vibration and subsequent crap falling apart sooner than it would have. Oddly, GS'es have a lot of junk parts on them, but I happen to think they have a beautiful set of guages. Not too eager to ruin those or mangle them to fit a front end. 2 nice symmetric booby shaped guages, cant beat that.

"Oddly, GS'es have a lot of junk parts on them."...  That made me laugh!  And the gauges/housing are just alright to me.  They aren't bad, but they aren't spectacular either.  I'd have no problem improving upon the design from an aesthetic point of view.  Bigger boobies maybe?


Brakes. Brake wear isn't linear, By your logic, you'd have the same life as a GS caliper/pad combo. Which I know its not. In a gs caliper 75% of the wear is in the inside pad and on the inside of the rotor. The static pad. I suspeck its due to the fact that as you hit the brakes your FE turns left forcing harder contact with that inner pad. 1 caliper with dual opposed pistons will actually make it worse. That's just a theory.

Ya, there isn't much i can say here about the wear cost savings thing between the KAT/GSXR brake systems.  We both simply don't have the necessary data.  And if we deferred to the most qualified expert on this issue, that be you and i'd lose the argument.  The only thing i can say, is that the GSXR brake system was designed for performance, and the KAT system wasn't.


This FE was on a race bike, which actually makes it only marginally suitable for the street.

What it's good for is up to the person that owns and is using it.


Octane's bike had a vortex top triple BTW and I believe he had GSXR 600 99-02 forks on his. I know him well, and I have a GSXR 750 I bought off him when I met him, the day werase643 crashed at VIR in 2004 and I am almost sure octane bought the triple already drilled. Otherwise we dont like to drill into our triple clamps.

The Vortex top triple looks like the GSXR top triple that looks like the, "Sport Bike" top triple made for many years of bikes by different manufactures...  "We dont like to drill into our triple clamps."  Where's your sense of adventure?


Your front end I believe is remarkably similar to a katana 1100 where that lower triple has that stop in front, and the legs are RF600/900  - I have to check to be sure. But on a street bike, everything has to work. Lock, guages, headlight turnsignals - look @ my FE in the other pics, I have working headlight, heck I used the GS500 headlight.

I'll say it again, "Where's your sense of adventure?"


There is a reason the front fender and fork brace need to fit off a GS500. Less parts to buy and ship and paint to match.

Paint to match crossed my mind.  But if you want to play you have to pay i believe the saying goes...


Converting a kat 600 89-95 FE onto a GS - You need to buy only 5 parts. Brake system, legs, triple assy with clip on's and axle. Everything else comes from the GS. Better yet, only parts to be modded, used to be stem and top triple, now its just stem, and only part needed that isn't ebay available is the guage grommet carriers. I dunno if I'd make and sell, but I may.

Using GS parts when needed, and leaving other GS parts intact makes for a cheaper conversion, it also makes for a easy reversal. I sold the FE off one bike when I decided that its not getting the 650 motor cos I didn't want to weld to the powdercoated frame.

The point of reference for cost if someone were to compare - the fleabay $$ with shipping for the 5 components I mentioned, + 100 bucks if someone was sending it to me for triple welding or buying carriers off me and stem machining. On a street GS that is what I'd do, and I have over a dozen times.

I didn't expect that i'd end up here when i first posted this FE for sale, but i'm here none the less...

DO NOT BUY THIS GSXR FE FROM ME!!!

AND DO NOT BUY THE KAT FE FROM BUDDHA!!!

BUY BETTER SPRINGS AND CHANGE YOUR FORK OIL WEIGHT ON YOUR STOCK SHOCKS!!!

Because it retains all of the stock parts and is the cheapest way to improve the FE performance on your, "Street" driven GS.

Anything else, would be overkill and a waste 

Oh wait, it's not my business what you do with your bike unless you ask me my opinion...


Bob!

[The Buddha]

Stock forks with progressives is a total waste of $$$ IMHO. Both yours or a kat FE are ones that I'd consider spending $$ on.

Sorry I dont have more pics. The black works with the overall theme better IMHO, and my powder guy does that very very often, so I get to piggy back on stuff without paying for a color change or his 5lb minimim. I can do clear and make it look like original again, however ... he never does clear, cos no one else wants their sheite powdercoated clear.

I have welded to that triple, the triples are cast aluminum, the ears are cast aluminum, its got more unknown metal than actual aluminum. It will weld up like someone puked on it. Anyway That welding now is obsolete, Bolt on ears are the next iteration.
That bolt on ear will be black but 99% invisible.

Open up your caliper and see if either of the pads are wearing at an angle. Dont check pads that have 1 race weekend on them. Check one ~1/2 way worn. Anything that is like that is a sign your caliper is getting pulled to one side.
On my virago 36mm forks 2 piston calipers - opposed pistons but 1 pair in each caliper and one per leg, went to 90% done in 25K miles and I checked it at that time to find it literally worn straight. Opposed pistons on each leg works best. The disk is still going strong, looks new at 28K miles, and my 89GS had a dead disk @30K, and I had swapped one set of pads at 10 and one at 20 and one more @30. the virago pads are much smaller than the GS too. In a GS all the wear is on the inside pad.

A GSXR forks may have been built for performance but, it was built for a GSXR and it has to have all of its components to still be built for performance. 1/2 the stuff is missing and its been fitted to a bike 1/2 the size, you're not going to get its effect.

A katana is a "hand me down bike" its got one generation older than yours, however its complete and being used as it was intended.

I had more pics, search for some pics by average (though his pic shows some rather aggressive shaving after I sent to him).
Anyway, no more shaving needed.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

BTW I am not really selling kat FE's - I machine up stems and I used to weld up triples. I guess now I could sell the mount ears, though I envision that as a very thin market.
Some people know I have kat FE's for my use and ask me for it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Big Shot]

Tomorrow should be fun.  I'm gonna go to a local motorcycle junk yard of sorts.  They're not in the habit of letting people walk their yard but i've gotten permission from the owner to do so.  Anybody know of any bikes with single sided swing arms that make for a fairly easy/good mod on the GS that i should keep my eye out for?  How about steering dampers?


Thanks, Bob!   

[average]

I'm pretty sure that there aren't any steering dampners from other bikes that bolt up. Most that I've seen had to be modded to work but anything is possible. As far as the pics of my top triple; here they go


As you can see; I didnt think that the triple would grip very well so I decided to grind of some material. These pieces weren't initially PC so I went to town on them. I put a few coats of semi gloss import paint to give them a nice finish.

[Big Shot]

Thanks Average.  And that reminds me, anyone have an extra blue high beam indicator light cover?

Bob 

[werase643]

somebody post this in the TF so i can blast budduh.......  must be nice..... ......must be helpful.....


the reason the GS brakes suck is the slider pin caliper design
it has crap feel.....for racing....
it will turn a rotor into a frisbee in a very short time due to uneven heating from side to side of disc


um...ah........budduh...crap have to stop.........dang

[ineedanap]

hey bigshot.  Are you thinking of cutting a set of gauge ears off of a stock triple?  If you want them I have a stock triple in my recycle bin.  I'll send it to you if you want. 

I proofread this time

[The Buddha]

somebody post this in the TF so i can blast budduh.......  must be nice..... ......must be helpful.....


the reason the GS brakes suck is the slider pin caliper design
it has crap feel.....for racing....
it will turn a rotor into a frisbee in a very short time due to uneven heating from side to side of disc


um...ah........budduh...crap have to stop.........dang

Bwaaaa hahahahahahahah ...
The rotor already a frisbee ... muhahahahahah .... hahahahaha ... hahahaha ...
GS brakes suck on the street for longevity and on the track for feel ... K crap all around.

Tard farm ... why you little, I'll tard farm you. Ban from all except tard farm. Confer the title of tardo supremo on you ... and make you admin of tard farm ... 

BTW GS fork legs are also made out of refined cat shaZam!, so they rust if you even mention rain.

The ears off a GS triple weld up to a katana triple easier, and no you dont have to grind off as much as average did. Just a shade will have been sufficient. But like I said ... no more welding or grinding. I actually had this triple back from average and after I powdercoated it, that was what was on that red bike I sold last year.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Big Shot]

hey bigshot.  Are you thinking of cutting a set of gauge ears off of a stock triple?  If you want them I have a stock triple in my recycle bin.  I'll send it to you if you want. 

I proofread this time

Thanks buddy, but i've got about 3-4 of those things already.  Save it for someone that really needs it...

[The Buddha]

Muahahahaha ... same calipers on a kat FE X 2, so ...
What's stopping you ...

+

Cool.
Buddha.

[Big Shot]

Oh really Buddha?  Please explain yourself.  In what way are they the same calipers?


You are so busted, Bob!

[The Buddha]

Made by nissin too.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

The 89-00 GS brakes also were nissin's BTW, nissin isn;t a magic word, nothing special about that.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Big Shot]

Dang...  I thought i had you!  Might be made by the same company, but they are not the same caliper...

Notice the big, "GSXR" written in the corner on any of the pictures?


Nice Try, Bob!

[Big Shot]

Nissin may not be a magic word Buddha, but it still stands that the calipers on this GSXR FE of mine are better than the calipers on your FAT KAT crap...

And every other part of the brake system too...

Why you trying to convince people otherwise?

Just wondering...


Bob!

[The Buddha]

Nissin may not be a magic word Buddha, but it still stands that the calipers on this GSXR FE of mine are better than the calipers on your FAT KAT crap...

And every other part of the brake system too...

Why you trying to convince people otherwise?

Just wondering...


Bob!

I dont thnk so ... what are you basing that its better on ?
89-95 kat mind you, not 98 ... and you putting up a tiger and a lazy cat makes no difference, your calipers - mind you calipers ... Plural ... Both of the calipers - CALIPERS - are about the same as the katana ones for 89-95.
Its not even a fat cat that you have, its a fat cat with 2 missing paws that you have.
Put up any fancy pics as you please, that will easily confuse the gstwinners and they'd buy the fat cat with 2 missing legs.

Like I said, you're really over selling it. And doing it badly.
Cool.
Buddha.