My training numbers so far

[mach1]

Im 23 and I weight 161lbs with a beer gut.
Im training for the fire academy so getting in shape is a must
I can jog 2 miles then walk 1 more
Standard and incline Bench depends on the day I can bench135lbs but if its a monday than i can do 150lbs
Arm curls range from 75lbs to 90lbs depends on the day
Leg press is 200lbs and climbing daily
sit-ups about 20 a day those are killing me
not sure what its called but i sit and pull the handle towards me those i can do around 150-170lbs
steps around 356 in 10 mins with no added weight will nedd to do that with 50+lbs added to me.
all these are 3 sets of 10-15 and its my second week

[ATLRIDER]

Try doing some squats to strengthen your back/legs/shoulders.
Put on a 50lb vest and go up and down stairs or get on a stair machine.  I took the NYC firefighter test back in early 90's and passed but decided to pursue another career.  Looking back, I could have retired in a couple of years from now.

Good luck.

[mach1]

I will be doing squats in my 5-6th week. Im going to follow the pre-academy fitness log. My vest ATM only goes upto 16lbs but once that one gets to easy I will buy another one. Thanks for the advice ALTRIDER

[spc]

Diet and Sleep are just as, if not more so, important as your workout routine.

Consistency and pushing your boundaries are also important.  I can't count the number of days I've done my 'last' set and decided I could do one more set of 5-10 more than the last one.  High weight vs high repetition?  BOTH  Alternating frequently (even during the same workout) is a good idea.  

If I were training you I would focus on your legs.  From your offered information there is obviously an issue there.  Your other specs seem about average.  Only being able to Leg press 200lbs is bad.  I would expect about 2x that from someone your size.  The quadriceps and gluts should be the most powerful muscles in your body.

Be  careful on the bench if you don't have a spotter.  Dumbell presses avoid some of the muscle failure issues and provide a better workout by making you stabilize the weights, try em.

What's you 2 mile run time?

[Toogoofy317]

Make sure you work on heat endurance. Maybe try doing some of you're work outs in one of those hot suits. But, make sure you rehydrate. Also, get really good on cardiovascular! Back is one of the main things that EMS professionals injure due to poor lifting techniques. That and you're idiot partner forgets to lift their end of the stretcher it only takes once to screw you up forever!

You don't have to be super muscular I wasn't you just gotta be able to go for long periods of times. There were some days were you went for just about your whole 24 hour shift. Other days you sit in the house and play GTA or pump iron.

Are they requiring you to do EMT as well. Down here you gotta get EMT first before they will even look at you for FF. Oh, what I'd give to be healthy enough to go back to my one love!

Mary

[wladziu]

If I may, (and Terry may agree with me, if he's heard of it):

One word:  Rippetoe!!!!



I'm not gonna give you the link yet.  So you don't completely ignore what I'm gonna say. 
There's no reason to take offense to this, but you're probably a pretty skinny guy under that adipose tissue (fat).  It's the most common male body type on the planet.  If you wanna replace the fat with muscle, as a beginner, Rippetoe's program is unmatched.  I happen to know a few things about it, but I'm not sure how serious you are.  Guess I'll cut my Rippetoe speech short. 
Here's the link, now:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

Hot suits are dangerous gimmicks.  And, heat acclamation is only in the mind, not the body. 
Mary, this has nothing to do with our discussion the other day.  I hope you're not holding a grudge for my position in the ol' Battle of the Sexes. 

Like she's saying, though, for fire academy and other such things, you need all-around fitness (which you probably already know).  I'm sure you're aware of the muscle vs. cardiovascular argument, but I've tried both.  You can doubt me, but you'll only be shortchanging yourself. 
It's gonna take you much longer to build cardiovascular endurance than it'll take Rippetoe's to build muscle on your frame.  Period.  When you're squatting 300+, you're gonna find traveling on foot with loaded gear to be much easier than if you're a 5-mile-a-day runner.  Rippetoe's will have you at 300+ in your first month, maybe two if you're lazy and have a bad diet. 


How tall are you?  What's your diet? 

[wladziu]

As far as your body fat, just find your daily caloric needs.  Get a good scale that'll find your body fat percentage.  Then, just input your data into one of the many calculators you can find online.  You're gonna want the scale, anyway, to track your gains.  The ones that work through inpedence (I think that's the word) work well enough until you find a pair of calipers. 

Don't try to shortchange your diet, thinking that it'll cause you to lose body fat.  Stop drinking the beer, eat clean "whole" foods, and make friends with milk.  Start with a daily intake of about 4000 calories, and the body fat will go down.  I'll tell you why, if you're interested. 
Or, you can read these, if you know what a lipase is:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ml5bx1PxxOQC&pg=RA1-PA1082&lpg=RA1-PA1082&dq=lipid+protein+glucose+energy+burn+rate&source=bl&ots=gGo_RqwMWi&sig=lM2s9AWgUF5zZM9cNU6LKVzy5YY&hl=en&ei=zIbLSZ_PDo2stgfsyOjLCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PRA1-PA1085,M1
Start at "Lipid Metabolism"

And:
http://books.google.com/books?id=7ZniNzP__5sC&pg=PA291&lpg=PA291&dq=lipid+protein+glucose+energy+burn+rate&source=bl&ots=i5_vpsvUNr&sig=LYg0-WI0mLUaAbL2OK1cW78yh4E&hl=en&ei=zIbLSZ_PDo2stgfsyOjLCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPA293,M1
Search for the sections on glycolysis versus lipolysis, or something like that. 

[ineedanap]

toogoofy made a good point.  I am a career firefighter and around here back injuries are really common and can be career enders.  I've been out on injury 2 times in 9 years.  That's about average for my department.  Most of the older guys have back issues.   

I used to lift hard and heavy but never incorporated a decent core/back workout into my routines.  Now I do.  It looks like everyone has given you some fantastic tips and they sound more qualified than me to give workout advise, but don't forget the back.

[wladziu]

Exactly.  Rippetoe's heavy focus on squats are gonna help you on that. 


Career firefighter, an ex-EMT, a powerlifter... you're getting good advice here, Mach1.  Who knew you'd find it on a motorcycle forum?! 

[mach1]

My mile time is 8mins depends if I go full incline or not. I'm sure I can leg press more but 200lbs is my starting point. I have good endurence I'm able to go more stairs or miles but I'm not pushing myself too hard until my cold goes away. My main focus is my legs and back lat pull dows and other to work my back out are being done I have done squats prior and the max was around 170-180lbs with no shoes. I don't have a spotter most of the time so I will use the machine weights instead but if my buddie tags along then we go with bars and dumbbells. And I need to take 2 emt classes and a fire technology class prior to the fire academy. I don't know if I apply to a firehouse open position will I need to have already taken a fire academy or can I do like to police and have paid training? I'm on my sidekick right now so can't see the links I will check them when I get home.

[Toogoofy317]

You really need to do exercises the focus on strength and endurance but nothing that will bulk you up. You need lean and long muscles. Also, try pushing a car you'd be amazed how much you gotta push  and pull stuff. Any place you can do like 35 flights of stairs in under ten minutes? Running stadiums risers are good too. You also gotta be fast so work on sprinting and such.

Heat acclimation is not in your head it is a physiological response. I see that you live in Cali now so no you don't need the suit i was recommending that because I thought he lived up north for some reason. I know many athletes will get ready for playing down south by putting a heater next to the treadmill. Also, one way to cool yourself quickly besides adding water is to dip your hands and forearms in cool water will increase tolerance buy 15-20%. Also, if you can get away with it while in your gear wear shorts it will help immensely.
Here is a good article on heat stress. Honestly, heart attack is one of the leading killers of firefighters believe it or not

Too Hot to Handle
Sep 1, 2008 12:00 PM

By Jeffery W. Petersen

No fire officer worth his or her salt would allow an apparatus to be driven to the point where the engine became so hot that it seized. Still, a blown engine can be replaced or repaired. Humans, too, will overheat, and repairing or replacing them is a very bad option.

Heat stress is a combination of environmental conditions, metabolic rate from activities and clothing worn that increases a body's core temperature. The human body tries to balance heat gain and heat loss, but when this balance is compromised, the body can't function at its optimal level.

Internal heat generated through body activity is the major source of heat gain. Only about 25% of this energy is translated to mechanical work; the remainder is released as heat in the contracting muscles. The harder the human body works during a particular activity, the more internal heat is generated.

Evaporative cooling — the evaporation of sweat from the skin's surface — is the major avenue for heat loss. When heat balance is compromised, the body will try to direct heat away from the core by increasing blood flow to the skin. Water secreted at the skin surface from sweat glands absorbs heat from the skin, changes from a liquid to a vapor and is carried off by the surrounding air. Because the heat of evaporation is quite high, small amounts of sweat remove relatively large amounts of heat.

These fluids must be replaced as soon as possible to maintain normal body function. But by the time people experience thirst, they probably are dehydrated and potential functional capacity already will be reduced significantly.

The rate at which people sweat is determined by three main factors: acclimation, aerobic fitness and genetics.

Acclimation is a physiological adaptation that the human body makes with repeated exposures to heat stress during exercise. It increases the rate of sweat production, shortens the time it takes for sweating response to start and conserves sodium. Some of the best-acclimated firefighters are breathing apparatus training officers because of the repeated exposures during hot fire training. Regular and sustained aerobic exercise can elicit a similar response.

Firefighters who maintain an adequate fitness level will have reduced cardiovascular strain and a lower core temperature for the same level of heat stress. Fit firefighters also tend to have less body fat, which means that they don't have to carry around extra (non-functional) weight. They require less energy to do the same job. Body fat is a very good insulator and will compromise the body's ability to lose heat.

But no matter how hydrated, acclimated or fit a person is, if the sweat can't evaporate, then thermo-regulation will be compromised. It is therefore essential that firefighters are aware of the signs and symptoms of heat stress so that it can be identified early and the appropriate measures taken. (See "Heat Stress Signals, Recovery," below.) Firefighters who notice these symptoms should notify the officer in charge immediately and take appropriate action, including instituting work/rest cycles, keeping cool and avoiding radiant heat, drinking small amounts of appropriate fluids, and using fans and other cooling devices such as water spray bottles and damp towels. Ice packs aren't recommended.

Although technology and training have reduced significantly the number of deaths and injuries from heat strain, firefighters continue to face the dangers. The physical effects of heat strain are well documented. However, heat strain also directly affects a firefighter's mental agility and his or her ability to make decisions. The mental symptoms are not as readily identifiable, but the consequences can be fatal. Researchers studying Air Force pilot error found that the decision-making process is hampered significantly by increased heat strain, with decreased mental performance, vigilance and eye/hand coordination.

Highly motivated heat-stressed subjects exhibit a higher error rate, a narrowed attention span with neglect of secondary tasks, and a diminished response to unusual events. The potential for personal injury increases, as does the risk to anyone under the individual's command.

Stress limits for workers exposed to adverse thermal conditions recently have been challenged. Rather than basing exposure limits on a physiological criterion like increase in body temperature, changes in behavioral performance efficiency are a more sensitive reflection of human response to heat.

Reducing the risk of heat strain also will reduce cardiac strain. Approximately 50 U.S. firefighters die each year from cardiac arrest. Technology that reduces heat strain could improve these mortality rates.

Research shows that a breathable moisture barrier in a firefighter's ensemble can reduce risk from heat stress during moderate to light duties — 80% of the normal workload. With current technology, it is almost impossible to remove the build-up of body heat inside the protective clothing while protecting the outside from the real extremes of fighting a fire in an enclosed space.

For most tasks, a moisture barrier will allow firefighters to work longer without a rest, lower the increase in body temperature and reduce the risk of errors from poorer mental performance. New research is aimed at creating up-to-date clothing technology that will offer these benefits in the most extreme temperatures.

Hope this helps if you have any specific questions on fire fighting my best friend is still a FF in Beuford South Carolina I can ask her.
Mary

[spc]

The cable/pulley machines are CRAP.  I use them for a grand total of 2 exercises, one of which I only do on days I b!tch out of benching.   Stop using the machine for rows .  A bent over barbell row in any of the various forms is going to be ideal for strengthening your entire back.

find the machine that looks like this


and do lunges.  Lunges and squats are the KEY to strong gluts and quads which are the key to being able to take stairs at speed with a weight.

Hadn't seen the Rippetoe program before, but it's pretty solid to start you off.

Bodybuilding.com is a great resource at times, but some of the hotheads on there make me look calm, controlled and rational

[mach1]

I do a mixture of cardio and strength. I start with strength then finish with cardio to cool me down. I just got back from the gym and spent a few min with the machines to get warmed up then spent 40mins in the weight room using free weights. it feels good. the reason I don't do free weights is because during the morning the gym is almost empty with the exception of a few old people and some younger women and a few younger men so I have no one to spot me. I'm still doing a pre work outwork out just getting in a decent shape working out every muscle so the soreness goes away.
Just looked at the rippetoe program and its almost the same as the program Im following. I spend two weeks doing one exercise for each muscle group making the weight heavier each time. then the next two weeks i will work out the same muscle groups but with different exercises and then keep changing for thenext four weeks after eight weeks I can start mixing exercises and adding more weight.

[wladziu]

The pre-workout workout, etc..  Not necessary. 
Just do Rippetoe's.  Don't mix it with anything, don't take anything else like it, don't decide it's "close enough" to your current program.  It's been designed to eliminate unnecessary movements and give you enough time to rest, while still pushing you enough to provide growth stimulus.  I know, it sounds cooky to take the word off "just some guy", but there's a HUGE number of people that have been helped by this program.  The exercises in Rippetoe's (and their order) are chosen for very particular, important reasons.  They don't tolerate change in the order; they work in combination. 

Listen to Spc about the cable machines.  Don't doubt a powerlifter, especially one that rips apart shopping carts to end arguments. 
Cable machines are to isolate particular muscles, not muscle groups.  They give a no-load rest phase, the movement is too controlled, and they're designed to decrease strain at full contraction.  They help give muscle tone to old women at Curves or bodybuilders trying to define striations in particular muscles. 
Free-weight iron is going to help your entire body + the particular muscle group you're focused on.   

Find a GOOD squat rack, with bars underneath to catch the bar if you fall, adjustable for your height.  Do your presses under the same rack.  Then you won't need spotters.  If you can't find one, and you can't find spotters, then you shouldn't be at that gym.  You'll only be wasting your time, not giving enough growth stimulus to the muscle. 


Or, suit yourself.  You probably know better. 










As far as not bulking up, Mary:  He's basically a 130/140 lb-er with a beer gut.  My point is not to disrespect him or ignorance on my part on vocational fitness.  Bulk and "long, lean muscles" are relative terms which actually (physiologically) mean the exact same thing.  You're trying to bring up the fast-twitch (anaerobic) vs. slow-twitch (aerobic) fiber percentages debate, and then negated yourself.  Sprinters don't use slow-twitch fiber, and the cardiovascular component of such exercise will be also gained during strenuous work with iron. 

I have my own quote, from the Journal of Science and Medicine in Sport:
" In laboratory simulations of performance, athletes fatigue due to hyperthermia when esophageal is approximately 40°C, in association with near maximal heart rate and perceived exertion. It is likely that the central nervous system is involved in the aetiology of fatigue from hyperthermia. Dehydration during exercise promotes hyperthermia by reducing skin blood flow, sweating rate and thus heat dissipation. The combination of dehydration and hyperthermia during exercise causes large reductions in cardiac output and blood flow to the exercising musculature, and thus has a large potential to impair endurance performance. "
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1440244099801728


You're preaching about heat stress, while promoting something that causes it.  Yes, heat acclimation is a lowering of the body's resting temperature due to a shift in parasympathetic autonomic nervous response.   No, I don't know which chemicals are responsible (yet).  That's the physiological response, but not the one that people claim.  I've watched too many people believe in heat acclimation and then move to the desert, where the supposed "gains" are very, very quickly negated.  What you're talking about is a reduction in the onset time of heat injury.  However, heat acclimation is (in itself) a response to accumulated heat injury, with the effects explained above. 
You're also leaving out the effect on the limbic system, where neurological changes such as above have direct, physical, measurable changes in emotional response and long-term behavior.  There have been studies on (and I've seen cases of) patients reporting that following long-term exposure, high-temperature environments evoke claustrophobia, idiopathic malaise, paranoia, aggression, fear, nausea, hypertension, tachycardia, hyperventilation, etc..  I'm sure that you'll agree that these signs and symptoms  easily mask those of heat exhaustion, given that heat cramps have already been written off as muscle fatigue in a training environment. 
There has been significant data toward this, since a large percentage of post-war PTSD sufferers with these claims have been so adamant.  It's something I'm pretty interested in.
Now that, to me, is the MIND. 
I personally believe (and Ineedanap may agree with me) that such traumatic exposure should be limited to the fires themselves or necessary training situations to acclimate someone to the mental stress.  I don't believe that should be brought into physical training unnecessarily, since the body cannot physically become accustomed to temperatures above it's threshold that exist in a fire.
I'm not necessarily angry at you, by the way.  I just get upset when people believe detrimental things that have been fed to them by organizations that require blind obedience.  Yes, I'm sorry if I'm taking it out on you.  You're a sweet person, and you don't really deserve it.   

Apologies for the thread hijack.   

[Toogoofy317]

I guess I know nothing about EMS Wladziu can tell you all you need to know. He was there after all!

Have fun all!

[wladziu]

Don't get pissed at me.  Get pissed at 2 years spent in (and 6 years training for) 120/130 degree desert sunshine with ceramic plate body armor, a full ruck, weapon and ammo, kevlar helmet, and water if you can hold it.  And, that's when you're not inside a tank turret, which happens to have a turbine engine with an exhaust output of about 1900 degrees. 
EMS is a vacation compared to pissing orange syrup for weeks. 



I've watched buddies get helicopter evac'd for heat stroke for believing in that "heat acclimation" BS.  Now, whether you have boobs or you're the nicest guy on the board: why should stand by and let another person get set up to believe it also?



Now, I was TRYING to be nice to you, in the hopes that we could work things out and be friends.  But, I've seen the wrong end of too many RPG's to listen to you disrespect where I have and haven't been. 





From your own quote, explaining the possible outcome of training in a rubber suit, and why I'd never take training advice from you:

Reducing the risk of heat strain also will reduce cardiac strain. Approximately 50 U.S. firefighters die each year from cardiac arrest. Technology that reduces heat strain could improve these mortality rates.

[wladziu]

Maybe you don't remember that I was the guy trying to help you feel better about having a heart condition and an artificial implant. 

Or when you said:
"If you've done combat medic in the military it shouldn't be to bad"
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=45983.0






But, you're the medical professional.  So, let's hear it!  Give this guy some workout advice other than running up some stairs, buying a space heater, and pushing a car.  It's your chosen profession since birth, right? 

[08GSSteve]

Good site that will help you.

The supersite is a must.



http://www.bodybuilding.com/

[mach1]

I'm about 155 with a small beer gut. I'm not bad out of shape. I'm not looking to get buff or ripped just in good shape and be able to do my job the best i can. i see FF smaller than me on the job. from what they tell me its 70% mental and 30% physical. But I'm not trying to say the ripptoe isn't good but thats for bulk and I don't want bulk I like my build cause I can maneuver really well and am pretty flexable and my speed is great.

[ineedanap]

I figure I'd add my 4 cents.  (two 2 cent posts)

Mach1, It's good you realize there are separate mental and physical aspects to the job.  As GI Joe said so elequently (sp) "knowing is half the battle".  You'll see as you go thru your training that "be able to do the job the best I can" isn't really correct.  It should be replaced with "I WILL be able to do my job"

Mentally, If you believe you can do it, you can do it.  You'll know the minute you hit the front door for the first time.  Either someone is fired up, pissed off and nothing will stop them from getting to work inside that burning house, or they'll freeze and their career ends right there.  No hard feelings toward them, some people can't do it. 

Physically, everything in this job is heavy, hard and demanding.  I'm 6'1 194lbs and still struggle on occation.  I think 5 lbs of that is back hair, though. 99% of the time you just have to work harder if you aren't as strong as the next guy.  It's that 1% that messes with your head.  It's a funny feeling to say to yourself this has to be done, there is no option for failure.  If your peers see you can't do your job, your career is done.  You might as well quit. 

Your realization that you must be physically fit and your efforts to get where you want to be are commendable.  We could argue all day on the ideal firefighter build would be.  That you're taking it seriously is what matters most. 

That's my opinion.