Modding & Insurance - A Cautionary Tale

[bassman]

I said in in my first post on this forum that I had just done the 15T Sprocket mod and that I had also done the progressive fork spring mod  some time before (about 2 months ago or so).  After doing the 15T mod I started to worry whether my insurance needed informing as the mods may have invalidated my insurance.  So this morning I rang my insurer only to discover that the 15T mod is no problem but that the non-stock springs invalidated my insurance !!!!! 

It's just my particular underwriter.  When I re-insure in 3 months time they will arrange another underwriter and my progressives will be covered, along with the 15T sprocket, at no extra premium cost

So I've just spent this Sunday morning changing out my progressives for the old springs and spacers   There is no way I would risk riding illegally as there is too much at stake (Bike, License, Money - not worth the hassle!).

But at least I've got plenty of experience doing the job!  When I change them again in June I'm going to do the proper oil change job and put in the heavier oil.

So be careful when you mod and consider checking out the consequences with your insurer first.

bassman

[joshr08]

i dont understand how those can effect your insurance or why you would pull them back out.  unless they pulled your bike apart they would have never known.  not like they can look at your bike and say wow get him he is running aftermarket springs in the front of that bike.

[bassman]

I'm just unlucky that of all the underwriters that I accepted the premium quote from they're the one that has a problem with fork mods.  The insurance agent told me that none of the others on their books have a problem.  If I change insurer now I'll loose 1 years no claim bonus and three months of cover I've already paid for.  If I continued to ride with the progressives under this policy then I would be uninsured.  if I had an accident and the bike was either checked by an assessor or I was asked to declare the bike was completely stock I'd be out of pocket and open to prosecution.   That's life, innit - you pays yer money and yer takes yer chances!  Well I've paid 'me money and I aint taking no chances!!

Just a bit unlucky - I'll get over it

[sledge]

Its the norm here in the UK. The insurance companies work off statistics and statistically people who carry out mods make more claims than those who dont. Therefore if you do a mod, no matter what it is you become a higher risk in their view........ Its not what you do, its the fact you do it that bumps up the cost. Insurance companies are not bothered until they have to pay out and if the bike is examined following a serious accident and the find out you have been naughty and not told them something.....well, you are on your own.

[GeeP]

It sounds to me like the insurance companies have a lot of wiggle room to deny a claim.  A 14-tooth sprocket invalidates your liability coverage?  That's just insane.

Soon they'll want to do a full-body inspection including a manual orifice inspection.  Those with warts on their right ass cheek will be denied insurance, as statistics show they drive faster.

[The Buddha]

i dont understand how those can effect your insurance or why you would pull them back out.  unless they pulled your bike apart they would have never known.  not like they can look at your bike and say wow get him he is running aftermarket springs in the front of that bike.

Sorry I think they can ... muhahaha ...
Cool.
Buddha.

[bassman]

Just popped out to the shops on the bike.  Those stock springs are Sh*te!  They're so soft after the progressives   They're so bad I've decided I'm going to do a fork oil change (the heavier weight) in the Easter holidays .  Then, when June comes and I renew my insurance, I'll fit the new springs without having to change out the oil.

I don't mind a bit of wrenching.  I love watching 'American Chopper' and would love to have a go at welding!! I ought to get a life really...

bassman

[lawman]

i dont understand how those can effect your insurance or why you would pull them back out.  unless they pulled your bike apart they would have never known.  not like they can look at your bike and say wow get him he is running aftermarket springs in the front of that bike.

That is probably both the worst mistake, biggest waste of money, and bar-none, the stupidest piece of advice I've ever heard.  Think of it this way: you don't tell your insurance about your mods.  You get in an accident.  They investigate, find out about your mods, and then disclaim insurance for failure to identify parts that impacted on the accident.  Now, you're out what you paid for your insurance, AND you're uninsured.  Brilliant plan.  Why don't you just ride without insurance and send me a check, instead?

What chance do you think there is that your insurance wouldn't disclaim your accident if, say, your SHOCKS were not stock, and your accident had to do with braking distance?  You prepared to argue your shocks don't affect stopping distance?  Good luck.

[joshr08]

im really getting sick of your attacks on me.  leave me alone

[commuterdude]

It really is crazy I mean you made your bike safer and better handling/braking, they ought to throw you a dam party.   How I long for the old days of the Empire.

[jt_234]

Granted, I think its ridiculous that they would invalidate your insurance over an upgraded safety feature, they have every right to do business with you or not based on whatever they want.  With that said if you canceled your policy and found another they would send you a pro-rated refund, you don't just lose it. Food for thought.

Allstate and Progressive have been great to me. 

I use Progressive currently and carry just above state minimums for TN and pay $131/yr...and they've said that as long as the upgrades aren't illegal the bike's covered.

BODILY INJURY & PROPERTY DAMAGE LIABILITY                   $39.00
    BI $25,000 EACH PERSON - $50,000 EACH ACCIDENT   
    PROPERTY DAMAGE LIABILITY - $15,000 EACH ACCIDENT   
UNINSURED MOTORIST BODILY INJURY                                   $57.00
    $25,000 EACH PERSON/$50,000 EACH ACCIDENT   
UM PROPERTY DAMAGE $15,000 LESS $200 DEDUCTIBLE   $9.00
MEDICAL PAYMENTS $1,000 EACH PERSON                           $26.00

Premium by Vehicle                                                           $131.00

That's with a MSF, multiple policy, and no claims/moving violations discounts.

[lawman]

Don't give bad advice and I won't attack you.  If someone follows your advice and gets mangled and ends up with no coverage, apart from illegally practicing law without a license, you're arguably also liable for your bad advice.  I would do the same if you advised someone bathe with a toaster, for instance...

I have progressive, and they asked me if I had any non-stock equipment on the bike when I set up the account.  I think on my last one they asked for specifics, but not on this one.

[annguyen1981]

Lawman...  chill.  This is NOT an official source of legal advice.  It's a place where people can share their OPINIONS.  Nothing more, nothing less.


Also, it would be wise to get MORE facts about a situation before running your mouth off...  I live in Massachusetts, home of the insurance Nazi's.  But NONE of the insurance companies EVER asked me or my family regarding aftermarket addons.  Why?  Because they don't INSURE them.  When my '04 R6 was stolen, I had about $1500 in mods on the bike.  I had kept receipts for half those.  But the insurance company didn't care...  All they cared about was the value of the BIKE itself.  That's it.

I 100% agree with Josh's statement...  Besides...  how are THEY gonna know if the springs are stock or aftermarket?  That'd mean the insurance adjuster would have to bring his/her toolkit and start a teardown of the bike.  On top of that, they'd have to be able to recognize the different springs inside the fork....  My guss is that the springs won't have a large yellow sticker stating that it was from XYZ company.

[bucks1605]

The only thing Progressive asked me pertaining to mods was if I had modified the frame or had a nitrous set up.

[bill14224]

These are two different countries we're talking about, and to make it more complicated, insurance regs vary from state-to-state here in the U.S.  Never mind that, let's fight about it anyway.

Why an underwriter wouldn't want to cover a bike with improved suspension makes no sense, but we're talking about runaway bureaucracy.  Expecting it to make sense is illogical.

[lawman]

Lawman...  chill.  This is NOT an official source of legal advice.  It's a place where people can share their OPINIONS.  Nothing more, nothing less.


Also, it would be wise to get MORE facts about a situation before running your mouth off...  I live in Massachusetts, home of the insurance Nazi's.  But NONE of the insurance companies EVER asked me or my family regarding aftermarket addons.  Why?  Because they don't INSURE them.  When my '04 R6 was stolen, I had about $1500 in mods on the bike.  I had kept receipts for half those.  But the insurance company didn't care...  All they cared about was the value of the BIKE itself.  That's it.

I 100% agree with Josh's statement...  Besides...  how are THEY gonna know if the springs are stock or aftermarket?  That'd mean the insurance adjuster would have to bring his/her toolkit and start a teardown of the bike.  On top of that, they'd have to be able to recognize the different springs inside the fork....  My guss is that the springs won't have a large yellow sticker stating that it was from XYZ company.

More bad advice.  Anyone reading this thread now or in the future should be very, very careful about failing to tell their insurance company if they've modified their bike.

[sledge]

Owners might see progressive springs and suspension/braking upgrades as a "safety improvement" but thats open to conjecture. All the insurance companies see is a modification from stock and I cant see things being much different in any other developed country. If they thought these mods improved the safety of the bike wouldnt they be willing to reduce the premium in reflection of the fact the bike is now "safer"?

If your bike is stolen and not recovered they will never know about any undeclared mods but if the bike is involved in a serious and/or expensive accident things are different. Here in the UK it will be siezed as evidence, carefully examined and possibly taken apart by Police accident investigators and VOSA Forensic Engineers, every component will be checked in an attempt to find out what caused the accident and if the bike itself was unroadworthy at the time. Its not uncommon for the manufacturers to get involved in case any blame lies with them in the form of component failure or assembly issues. If there are any non stock mods or substandard components fitted they WILL find them and this is when the insurance company finds out you have been a naughty boy and not told them about your mods. This is also when they will probably refuse to honour any claims and YOU find yourself without insurance cover and way up sh**creek sans paddle! I dont know how it works in the US but I would be very surprised to hear that a similar procedure did not apply.

Some interesting articles on the subject...........draw your own conclusions and do your own thing.

http://www.devittinsurance.com/bikerzone/articles/modifications.html

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2007/October/october23-30/oct3107insuranceclaimsrefusedbecauseofmodifications/?&R=EPI-96706

[applecrew]

 I have to admit that Sledge and Lawman have valid points.... insurance companies in Europe have a very different approach to the business than we are familiar with here in the US.  Opinions such as "they'll probably never notice" are uninformed and misleading... and as givers of opinions, we should respect the information given to us by our overseas friends as they are more familiar with the insurance practices of their countries, and not offer advice that may encourage others to run afoul.

[toronto_moto]

Insurance companies want to be told about mods primarily for the cost factor. They don't want to insure a stock bike for (example) $500 insurance and find out you crashed and had $2000 in mods that you expect them to replace. If they knew you had the mods your insurance may be 10% higher or something. That's where the real issue lies, not in the safety factor. They'd replace the stock value of the bike but not the extras.

As for them saying it's a safety issue is pure BS. There's too many other factors regardless. What if your tires are worn to 50%. Sure they're still within spec but hey they're not as safe as new tires. Maybe they wouldn't process your claim in an accident! They have to.

With the insurance companies it's all about the $$$$.

[lawman]

With the insurance companies it's all about the $$$$.

Why yes... yes it is...