down shifting

[rockyrunner99]

I just got my first motorcycle, a 2004 GS500f.  I have a few questions.  When coming to a stop, is it better for the bike to downshift through each gear slowly, so I don't end up in 1st gear at 30-40-mph.  What I have been doing a lot of the time is as soon as I start stopping, I just go down through the gears.   but like I mentioned, that makes it so I am in first (with the clutch in) at 35mph. 

The front tire is getting down to where it needs replacing, it has 3-4/32 of an inch, just shy of the wear bars. Is that something I should get change right away, or can I ride a few weeks or months that way?  I am in Phoenix so there is little chance of rain! If it was on my car, I would definitely wait.

I am very mechanically inclined, but have never worked on motorcycle, should I take the wheel off and take just the wheel to the shop, or just take the bike to the shop?

what kind of tire would you suggest, the rear has a brand new Bridgestone Battle ax  on it.  I am just learning to ride, I will not be racing, by any means.

I think that is all the questions I have for now, thank you.

[cptjello]

Have you taken MSF?
When you start your stop you pull the clutch in and downshift all the way to first. Granted, this is for stuff like stoplights or stop signs where you are slowing to a complete stop or very low speeds.  When doing so you should also be applying both brakes, so I don't quite get how you are going 35-40.
I am any help?

[ineedanap]

You might want to consider not just going all the way to first all at once when you expect to be stopping.  If you had to accelerate or make evasive action you would find that you're in the wrong gear with the way you're doing it.  

If I were in your position I'd start by downshifting then letting the clutch out slowly for each gear (or 2-3 at a time, whatever) so the engine catches up and you can take advantage of engine braking.

After a while you can move on to "blipping the throttle" on downshifts and you'll always be in the right gear no matter what...and it sounds cool 


There are lots of tire experts here.  I bet you'll get some great answers soon.

[rockyrunner99]

thanks guys, those were some fast replies.  I thought of one more question.  I would like to ride up to flagstaff sometime, I am in phoenix. Flagstaff is at 7000ft el.  will I have a problem with the jetting?

[ineedanap]

Sorry, forgot to say congratulations on your first post!

[shiznizbiz]

My $.02, Down shift as you are comign to the stop slowly using engine braking.  you should end up downshifting 1 gear at a time right around 3000 rpms or lower.  You'll learn the feel for your bikek as you get more experience, concentrate on being smooth with your riding and take an MSF course and youll be set.  Keep an open mind, and take into consideration the experiences of others.  You did great by picking that bike and this site.  I did and i wouldnt have had it any other way.  Good luck and keep 'er rubber side down.  oh and speaking of rubber..the tires.....id replace that front one. If you let it go now, you'll keep putting it off until you cant ride it or worse.  The stock tire size and brand are fine.  Tats what i use and ive had no problems out of them.  Oh, and dont forget to check your oil....from my personal experience.....few  may disagree but alot agree(oil type is a holy war of sorts)....rotella t 15w 40 diesel engine oil is great stuff....last a long time, and its cheap.   eh. and dont forget your gear...itll save your life and your skin. 
Later gs'er

[scratch]

Personally, I downshift as I'm slowing down, matching revs to speed.

Figure (figures are approximate):

15mph is 4000rpm in first gear
25mph is 4000rpm in second gear, and 5000rpm in first
35mph is 4000rpm in third, and 5000rpm in second
45mph is 4000rpm in fourth, and so on

There is a 1000rpm loss when upshifting (accelerating)(So if I upshift at 5000rpms in 2nd gear, I will be at 4000rpm in 3rd).

The same is true for downshifting, but instead there is a 1000rpm increase between gears.

Example: I am slowing down from 35mph in 3rd gear.
I pull in the clutch, begin braking, and increase rpm's to 5000rpms.
Downshift to 2nd gear, slowly letting out the clutch (and ever so slowly rolling off the throttle).
I should be feeling that I'm slowing down and not accelerating.

Same thing for 2nd gear:
Clutch, continue braking (you should still be braking through all of this), increase rpm's to 5000
Downshift, ease out clutch, slowly roll off throttle

Hope this helps.

I would replace the front tire with a matching Bridgestone Battlax.

[Dr.Sparkie]

always be braking with the clutch out, hence you will always be in the correct gear for taking off again. caveat: first gear. not worth it in first.

downshifting all the way to first without popping the clutch along the way is a recipie for inducing a massive skid when you dump the clutch in the wrong gear... did it once on a honda cx650... thats a big bike to be drifting, and I was only one gear away from where i should be. i didnt go down, but I had a heart attack, and so did the owner

i always blip the throttle with my thumb and index, while braking with some of the lesser fingers. I'm always in the correct gear to pull away again, which has been handy in city when traffic gives me a gap or the guy behind me isnt paying attention. the real benefit to this skill is that you're always in the correct gear to throttle out of the apex of a corner when you're exceeding the speed limit on twisty roads.

[daliumong]

sorry for possible threadjacking, but does anybody else get the black smoke from the exhaust pipe when downshifting very agressively? I rev match my downshifts, but my buddies always tell me they can see black smoke once i start getting aggressive

[tt_four]

I remember how much of a pain it was learning how to downshift coming to a stop. Eventually you just learn how to time them to shift one at a time the whole way down. You don't have to actually let the clutch out after each shift, just space them out. I'd always be coming up to a redlight, pull the clutch, shift to first, and as soon as I did the light would turn green, and as you mentioned, I'd be going 40 in first gear and have no idea what gear I should be in anymore. At first I would just go by 10s if I had to guess a gear to start moving again, if I was going 20mph or faster I'd shift back to 2nd, 30 or faster I'd shift to 3rd, 40+ in 4th and so on, at least just until i got used to it. If you're riding up to traffic or a stop sign where you know you're gonna stop, then there's no reason you can't just just pull in the clutch and shift down to first. Just make sure you get to first before you stop, sometimes the bike will be a jerk about shifting when you're not actually moving.

I wait tires out until I HAVE to change them, and I ride in rain all the time. That's not really safe, and it's not my recommendation, but that's what I do. Either way I don't think you're at a point for concern yet if you don't really ride in the rain. Race bikes have perfectly slick tires, even if that's not logical, that's what I tell myself to feel better.

[rockyrunner99]

Thanks for all the replies guys.  I did take an MSF course, they just didn't really address the down shifting thing.  well sorta, they said to always be in 1st when you come to a stop.  I have been practicing my down shifting the last couple days, and I am really getting the hang of it.  It does make sense to be in the correct gear for the speed you are going, The riding I have been doing so far, I have primarily only had 4 way stops, so I would just go to 1st right away, I will stop that habit, I promise.  Since I won't be doing it anymore, is it harder on the trans, to get the gears in the trans spinning up so fast, if you were to downshift right to first?

[shiznizbiz]

Thanks for all the replies guys.  I did take an MSF course, they just didn't really address the down shifting thing.  well sorta, they said to always be in 1st when you come to a stop.  I have been practicing my down shifting the last couple days, and I am really getting the hang of it.  It does make sense to be in the correct gear for the speed you are going, The riding I have been doing so far, I have primarily only had 4 way stops, so I would just go to 1st right away, I will stop that habit, I promise.  Since I won't be doing it anymore, is it harder on the trans, to get the gears in the trans spinning up so fast, if you were to downshift right to first?

It could be very very very bad on not only the tranny, but the clutch and the engine.  You could also lock up your rear tire and it could buck you off the bike.....please dont ever do that....DO it gear by gear. Believe me.....you wont regret it as much as you would if your down shifted to first from 6th at 65mph.

[mister]

I downshift as I slow and let the clutch out at each gear - you just never know when you need to give a burst to get going again. With enough warning - such as approaching lights that are already red - there is almost no need to touch the break. I just let the engine break slow down the bike.

On faster stops - not emergency-like stops but just faster - I still downshift and release clutch each gear while breaking. It's something you get used to working right hand and right foot, left hand and left foot at the same time. But it's just slightly different to driving a manual car - left foot clutch, left hand (in Australia) gear change, right foot break and right hand steering wheel.

In a real emergency stopping situation I ignore the clutch until the end. The engine break thus helps break as well as the other breaks.

The idea of getting into first is so you Know you are in first when stopped - as you'd need to be in first anyway. And so you do NOT need to do the Riders River Dance (right foot down, left foot up and change to first, left foot down, right foot up onto break). Popping back into first is usually the last second thing, just before stopping. I even let the clutch back out to the friction zone so I know I am in first, before pulling it back in and coming to a complete stop.

No need to give a small throttle twist as you come down.

With time in the saddle you'll get this and it will all fall into place by itself.

Michael

[the mole]

As others have said, you need to use each gear as you change down into it, let the clutch out and let the engine help with braking. That way you'll know which gear you're in at any time, and be able to use the engine to accelerate if you need to. Also, if you let the clutch out in each gear, you'll find the next one shifts easily. If you just shift down all the gears at once, you can get the gearbox to hang up and not shift until you let the clutch out again, then you may be in the wrong gear. If you ride smoothly and anticipate stopping ahead of time its easy to  be in the right gear all the time. It will come easier with practice.

[KasbeKZ]

this looks to me to be the explanation of why a lot of you guys get bad fuel mileage and your engines don't last long enough. i know i'm no pro rider, but if you just take a minute to see how fast you're going in each gear you down shift to, you could avoid letting the clutch out, and avoid all that wear on the engine. and don't say it's to save the brake pad. changing pads is easier than replacing the engine. and as for gas, there are two points of view on that. either the engine turning fast and sucking more fuel because of it, or it's turning fast, not able to suck more fuel, and is now running lean and hot the whole time you are decelerating.

i don't have a bike yet so i sound pretty dumb i'm sure, but my plan has been to downshift (from 60) one gear right away, then another at 50, then another at 40, and finally be in first at 20 without ever having let the clutch out through the deceleration. in my opinion, that saves a lot of wear on the engine.

someone mentioned blipping the throttle back there. i've heard that a lot. is that just giving the throttle a twitch to jump the revs up so that the clutch doesn't jerk the bike when you let it out?

[yamahonkawazuki]

You might want to consider not just going all the way to first all at once when you expect to be stopping.  If you had to accelerate or make evasive action you would find that you're in the wrong gear with the way you're doing it.  

If I were in your position I'd start by downshifting then letting the clutch out slowly for each gear (or 2-3 at a time, whatever) so the engine catches up and you can take advantage of engine braking.

After a while you can move on to "blipping the throttle" on downshifts and you'll always be in the right gear no matter what...and it sounds cool 


There are lots of tire experts here.  I bet you'll get some great answers soon.

plus if clutch is let out too fast. you would risk tire lockup ( rear)

[Dr.Sparkie]

i blip the throttle on every downshift, all the time, ride like a hooligan on the highway, get into competitions of velocity and skill with various vehicles on said highway, and still get around 4l/100km (>50mpg) on my 555cc hand grenade of a motorcycle. if fuel economy is affected, i dont really care at this point, and its not significant given these performance figures.

granted i rebuild my engine alot, but i think that was related to the previous owner and the mysterious "clackey noise" more than my driving. turns out the bike is kinda noisy when theres absolutely no oil in it.

[johnny ro]

I always think of worn tire situations as an opportunity rather than a bad thing.  I like buying new tires, it makes the car or bike better.  I suggest get new battleax for front.  Don't ride around on old worn rubber unless you just don't have the $.

On the shifting down through gears one by one and letting engine help brake just to come to a stop- this is for long haul Diesel tractor trailors.  They have gizmo called Jake Brake that optimizes this, the process is loud and weird and clumsy and slow reacting but saves their brakes and they need that.

I have never felt it helpful to do it on car or bike as matter of routine. I find that I can select whatever gear I want in split second and dump clutch and gas it if I had to. Not that I am any awesome rider or anything. 

Back in the day before synchromesh this downshifting and spinning gears up to speed was helpful on cars.

[tt_four]

If I'm slowing down very very gradually I'll just do it with a downshift, but if you guys are talking about slowing down that way just coming to a redlight or stop sign it sounds like you're putting in way more work than you need to. I was worried about what gear to be in when I started riding, but after a short time I'm perfectly fine just keeping the clutch in and shifting down one at a time.

As far as braking and downshifting just to let the engine help slow you down, I barely put any emphasis on the back brake anyway. It's way stronger than it needs to be as is, and if I happen to be letting the engine slow me down, I don't even mess with the back brake.

I also would much rather replace my brake pads more often than give that wear to the engine. It's one thing to let off the gas and let the engine slow you down on, but if you're intentionally downshifting and letting the engine deal with the jump in RPM because you can't gauge what gear you should be in by the speed you're going, I feel like your just taking miles off your engines life.

[Bluehaze]

yea that whole gear thing and when to down shift comes with ride time.  Its whatever makes you feel comfortable.  You will have lots of uneasy question.. but in time you will see that you get the hang of it..

a few are..    - does the wind bother you when you go at high speed?
                   -  i cant remember what gear i am in.. is there a digital gear reader?
                   -  do i use the front brake more or both back and front?

Regardless.. those questions will go away as you get more ride time.. Though please do ask them if you wish.. lots of people here will give your their input.. but remember its you thats riding that bike.  And nothing makes you more comfortable on the bike that ride time..ride time.. ride time..  get as much miles in there as possible.

then you will be answering those questions for new riders in the future.