first incident with GS

[rockyrunner99]

I was riding in a park area, like a state park.  I was in this very remote area, the road was not maintained well at all (is good, parks should be rustic, maybe I shouldn't have a motorcycle there).   The pavement was the very weathered asphalt that looked like lose gravel.  I was going along about 30-35, I came up to a curve.  I had taken several other curves on this road.  This one scared me.  It was sharper then the others, and I thought there was loose gravel on it, Afterwards, I don't think it was loose, I think it was just the pavement.  For some reason, I got scared though, and couldn't lean the bike into the curve, so I just stopped fast, went off the side of the road. into a sand bank.  No real harm, a couple very small scratches, on the bike and some lose of confidence in myself.  I have been riding about a month and a half, and have about 600 miles in.

for some reason I am quite terrified of the bike sliding out from under me at times.  I really like the leaning thing most of the time, but if there is anything, different like a little gravel, it really scares me.  Is this justified, can a little loose gravel make me crash?

[Suzuki Stevo]

Sounds like a classic case of "Target Fixation", always look through corners, where you want to go, and the bike will follow. Glad you and the bike are OK  

[tt_four]

Yeah, I've done that a number of times. My first bike was a giant dual sport, so I was always skeptical of the dirt bike tires when I was taking turns. You'll be a little weary for a while. Have you taken the MSF course? I thought I knew how to ride when I took it, but it helped me feel SO much more comfortable in turns. Anyway, my best advice is to pick a couple roads you really like, and just ride those roads constantly. After a couple weeks you'll know where every single crack, pebble, and bump is, and then you'll learn when you can lean or not. It'll at least get you comfortable with leaning.

[rockyrunner99]

yeah, I have taken the MSF coarse.  I think you are right, I was looking down more the pavement then through the corner like I should have been.  That is one thing I was always being corrected on in the MSF coarse.  I think that is going to be a hard habit for me to break.  I have mountain biked for years, and am always looking down to look where to put my tires, placing it right between two large rocks and things like that.

[XealotX]

...can a little loose gravel make me crash?

Yep.

Slow down and don't lean so much when entering a turn you are not familiar with. That healthy fear of the unknown will probably save your life someday.

[xanthras]

I have taken the MSF course and still am very cautious on my turns. I drive in the city and the burbs on a regular basis. Seems to me that the city streets can have some unpredictable junk. Pot holes, manhole cover, bumps, gravel, brick. I hesitate to lean too much when I am downtown. I think they are dead on with the target fixation, as I have caught myself doing it. Its tough, because as a new rider you want to lean and practice your turns, however you also want pay attention to road conditions. There are some turns around where I live that would be fantastic for leaning, but if you look close you see gravel. Kinda stinks. Personally, I would rather play it safe. There have been 6 deaths so far this season here in CNY.

Stay safe!

[impulse816]

Its not unusual to be scared of the unknown. Don't doubt your skill, it could happen to anyone. Just remember what they taught you in the MSF course and what you learn from day to day riding. I know what really helped me was I found a nice little road of twisties just a few minutes from my house than I can get to in about 5 minutes and make it all the way around and back in around 20. I have done this loop so many times that I probably could do it eyes closed . I know the line and everything about this little stretch but I am always careful because of animals, new obstructions, traffic, etc. I think I saw somewhere you should never ride over 80% of your skill on the roads. I started off just like you sound. I didn't really trust the bike as much and eventually it grew on me. I felt like every little corner the smallest pebble would send me to the ground. I'm 3000 miles in and feel a lot better about it. You will too over time.

But yeah gravel can be pretty dangerous. You should be able to do everything you would normally in gravel just much easier and smoother. Braking, accelerating, turning, can all be done but just nice and easy. On my first big ride with my partners we came upon this stretch of road that was completely torn up and 100% fine gravel. It was part of their normal 150 mile day loop and it had just been under construction so we took that stretch very carefully and came out just fine with no problems. Its just about trusting the bike and trusting your ability and making the right choices. Ease on the break, keep it upright, ease on the gas. Hopefully you start feeling comfortable again. Glad you and your bike are okay too!

[speedsix]

Yes, a little gravel on a corner will put you down fast.  I went down twice on turns with sand/gravel.  If the corner has any debris, take it slow.  There is nothing to be gained by going too fast through a corner with gravel on it. 

[DoD#i]

I have mountain biked for years, and am always looking down to look where to put my tires, placing it right between two large rocks and things like that.

If you look through the turn, and look at the pavement that you are looking "through", ie, look where you want to go, you'll go there. You're generally going too fast to be looking down at what the tire is about to go between - look between (e.g.) the sand patch and the oil patch out ahead, and keep looking out ahead of where you are, and you'll "magically" pass between the sand patch and the oil patch when the tires actually get there, unless you deliberately try to screw it up.

OTOH, yes, you should definitely be cautious when riding on poor road you don't know - or any road where you can't see around the corners. It can be a road you know really well, with nice solid surfaces, and there can be a deer, or a patch of oil, or wet leaves, or a stopped vehicle or whatever around where you can't see - so "knowing the road" does not give license to exceed a reasonable speed (ie, being able to stop where you can see.) Then you can roll on the throttle on your way out of the corner, if you slowed to make it trhough safely.

.....there are no cornerworkers to flag you down on public roads.....

[speedsix]

I have been riding for about 15 years but I am still a corner wimp.  Curves on good road are fine.  Off ramps on certain roads I know are easy to take at 70mph plus but roads I don't know are another story.  The corner going into my addition has lots of gravel on it and I often took it REALLY slow.  I am talking in first gear slow because I am chicken of gravel on corners. 

I went down twice on gravel turns and both times I never even felt it until I was on the ground.  It was like someone pulled the road out from under me.  That is why I prefer dual sports.  They have real tread on the tires for times when you find yourself in construction with chewed up roads and all the other BS that our crumbling roads throw at you.

[Dr.Sparkie]

---safety run---

definition: the slow, quiet run you do on a road before attacking it at speed. this is the time you take to notice things like water, gaping holes, local law enforcement or anything else that will kill your ride.

go straight back to that park, do the speed limit or less down the road, and pick up on everything, then repeat the road with your knowledge and tackle the safe corners at a reasonable velocity.

[tt_four]

Have you come across any of those roads where they're planning on repaving it, so they're torn the whole thing up and just left the rough concrete from 3 inches down yet? I LOVE those roads, I think it feels awesome how the bike shifts back and forth. Anyway, the reason I bring it up, is that was another new experience that Heather hated when she started riding. She never got used to it, and always hated me for an hour or two after I accidentally took a road that had that on it. Same with with metal grate bridges.

The point of that, was that there's just things you have to get used to. Just take it easy over gravel, and eventually you won't think a thing of it when you come to a turn with gravel on it. You'll just brake harder before you hit it, turn sharp and then coast over the gravel as straight as you can, and then finish the turn after it, all without really thinking about it anymore.

[mister]

Gravel on twisties is one thing cause you can half expect it. The one to look out for is the small gravel pile that gathers at intersections. Say, for example, you are turning right (right side of the road riding). The options are... turn right or go straight. Vehicles coming the other way can turn left into the same road. Now have a look at where the three options would see tires go and you'll find a small section that isn't driven on. The gravel accumulates there. And if you take the corner too wide you'll be right over that gravel just as you're leaning and putting outside pressure on the tire. It WILL lose traction.

ALL intersections have this debris-zone.

Michael