Biker gangs and Harleys

[tt_four]

So in my Sunday night 'I don't want to go back to work tomorrow' procrastination, I was sitting on the couch at 11. Whatever movie I was watching ended, and the Son's of Anarchy came on next. I didn't care enough to actually watch it last week when it was originally on, but since it was neatly placed infront of me when I already didn't feel like moving, I just let it happen. It was pretty bad, but that's irrelavant here.

While I was watching it, I spent most of the time wondering why all of these guys are still riding around on Harleys. Not "why do people ride harleys?" because people like different bikes and I get that, but why is the modern day biker image still focused on Harleys? Also, When I saw biker gangs, I'm specifically referring to the "rough & tough biker" image that the show is focused around. I know there are gangs(clubs) that ride sportbikes, wearing half helmets leather vests, and have tattoos, but they still tend to be more light hearted than the people who want you to think they're out smashing bars and killing guys.

I get some of the smaller factors, none of which combine into a strong enough arguement to help me understand. I understand that 30 years ago there wasn't quite the same selection of bikes. Cruisers, standards and sportbikes really weren't all that different from each other. I get that image has a lot to do with tradition, and cruisers have been around, so they stick around. I get that they're american, and I figure that's probably one of the biggest factors in keeping them there. I get that at one point, a big harley might have been the toughest, meanest looking thing on the street, but I just don't really think any of that is true anymore.

There are so many guys riding harleys now, that the image is significantly softened up. When I see one parked somewhere, a biker gang is way down on the list of mental pictures that pop into my head. When I picture what the biker gang image is in my head, and then randomly try to line that up with what bike fits the best, I really think a harley only comes in around 3rd place. I get that a lot of people don't want a japanese bike, and that is going to put a bias on the whole situation, so the first bike that comes to mind is a Buell. Guys on harleys don't hate them, guys on sportbikes don't hate them, they're just all around well purposed bikes. They're generally light, fast, aggressive, sound mean, and are still american. When I picture a gang that's supposed to be mean and tough, I generally want to picture them on something powerful and fast. They don't necessarily need a short wheelbase for riding twisty back roads, but a loud couch on wheels doesn't really seem as tough to me as something with a decent power/weight ratio. The second thing to come to mind is something like a Kawasaki ZRX 1100/1200. Those bikes are just about as mean as it gets, and I'm not even gonna go into details because I think it's pretty easy. The only downside to that one again, being that they're Japanese. Then maybe down the line I can see some cruisers working their way in there, but still because the American side of it has to have a lot of pull. That does make me wonder though, why you can have your standard Harleys, and the complete opposite with a Buell, but Harley hasn't tried to come to any compromise by making something more like a zrx1100. I mean hell, they made V-rod, so at least that shows you they're not completely opposed to any kind of technology. All it takes is an engine being tuned right, and a little bit of aluminum. I know that being light isn't what makes a bike fun. I just think the general Harley image is presently something more focused on an easy going comfortable motorcycle ride. A group of hooligans who want to go out breaking laws, revving your engine, and being a hooligan in general, should be on, well, a hooligan bike.

So any of you guys in biker gangs that can explain to me why you don't ride anything but a Harley(aside from your secret love for the GS they don't know you have)? My dad has a sportster. Maybe I should take it on a ride and see if I feel like an outlaw.

[Cal Price]

When I see a Harley the image that pops up is that of polishing chrome but I recon that's true for most cruisers, we even have a Goldwing in our club, what the heck everyone to their own.

[tt_four]

what the heck everyone to their own.

Yeah, I tried to phrase the question so it wouldn't sound like I just want to pick on a certain group for wanting to ride a certain bike. I'm really just curious why that group seems to stick with the one style of bike, when it doesn't really seem to be a perfect match for the image they're trying to put off.

[08GSSteve]

http://gankmotor.com/harleydavidson.html

[Caffeine]

My feeling about Harley riders is that they really want other people to NOTICE them on their bikes.   Non-Harley riders don't give a shaZam! if the rest of the world notices us on our bikes.

Harley riders also seem to dress  up and play biker;  leather, Harley t-shirt, Harley boots, Harley underwear, Harley sunglasses.   "I'm a bad-ass biker dude!  Fear me!"   Whatever, dude.

[tt_four]

"If you're thinking of owning one just because you've got tons of money and want to show off how rich you are, I am going to wholeheartedly tell you now, DON'T. You'll give the real bikers and rockers out there a bad name. Not to mention you'll look funny, and everyone will be laughing at you behind your back. Or in your face, depending on how polite they are."

Haha, that was some awful writing. I wonder if the guy who wrote it realizes that not even Harley Davidson cares anymore. Aside for a couple guys who are probably still real into the image, it's all rich business guys with a marketing department. Plus I'm also wondering if he doesn't realize that as he passes people with his "devil's angel's hell's Devils" vest and his ZZ top beard, 50% of the people he passes are laughing at him, and the other half just think he's an ass for having an exhaust that loud in public.

And just for the record, I'm just referring to the guy who wrote the article, not all guys on Harleys

[The Buddha]

I pissed off a couple of em ...
They drove by my house and slashed my ... tax return. 30-40 bucks, gone.

Then one of them caught my house on the refi and adjusted my arm upward first so small that I didn't catch it and when I gave up on the house, it adjusted down and I could afford it ... then it adjusted again ... and back down ... those guys are bad dudes, you dont want to mess with them. No way.

Cool.
Buddha.

[ohgood]

I pissed off a couple of em ...
They drove by my house and slashed my ... tax return. 30-40 bucks, gone.

Then one of them caught my house on the refi and adjusted my arm upward first so small that I didn't catch it and when I gave up on the house, it adjusted down and I could afford it ... then it adjusted again ... and back down ... those guys are bad dudes, you dont want to mess with them. No way.

Cool.
Buddha.

LOL


the scariest bunch i've known rode HD's. they were thugs. the dudes on cbr's were dumber though, and would go to jail for anything, thinking they'd get out on a tech-knee-callitme.

[yamahonkawazuki]

what the heck everyone to their own.

Yeah, I tried to phrase the question so it wouldn't sound like I just want to pick on a certain group for wanting to ride a certain bike. I'm really just curious why that group seems to stick with the one style of bike, when it doesn't really seem to be a perfect match for the image they're trying to put off.

well tbh it swhere it ends up every time. wiht attitudes of many here. BUT i applaud your efforts. as both a gs rider as well as an hd rider too. ill ride anythign with two wheels and an engine. im not biased

[bettingpython]

what the heck everyone to their own.

Yeah, I tried to phrase the question so it wouldn't sound like I just want to pick on a certain group for wanting to ride a certain bike. I'm really just curious why that group seems to stick with the one style of bike, when it doesn't really seem to be a perfect match for the image they're trying to put off.

well tbh it swhere it ends up every time. wiht attitudes of many here. BUT i applaud your efforts. as both a gs rider as well as an hd rider too. ill ride anythign with two wheels and an engine. im not biased

I'm biased I hate the crap out of hardly ablesons there I said now go whine some more

[jserio]

i'm wondering if the people who hate them so much have actually riden one. especially a newer one. 

[bettingpython]

i'm wondering if the people who hate them so much have actually riden one. especially a newer one. 

Yes they're crap. HD is a status symbol. Other bikes out there do it better and for less money.

[birdman561]

Ive owned a few Harleys and have really come to hate these anti-Harley threads that always pop up
on any bike forum, so Ill reply just one time, here.

Out of all of those bikes  HD's are without a doubt, item for item, overall, the best bikes made in
my opinion, quality-wise. My opinion. The resale and the number of really, really old ones still on the
road bear this out. Some are faster, some are more hi-tech, and all have more plastic, but none
item for item, are better. I really cant understand why BMW's escape the wrath Harleys get given their
constant reliability issues. electrical glitches and over-the-top dealer yankage when you get one
serviced, but I digress, so back on topic......

The guys who ride HD's are what a lot of opinions are based on, not the bike. A lot of HD guys
the loudpiper-LOOK@ME types, gangster wannabes, etc are all flaming doooshes, but one
shouldnt let that taint their opinion of the bike.  For a long interstate cruise on backroads, hiways
and just rollin' nice and slow, a Harley provides a 'feel' no one else can match. A Harley has a
'character' no other bike does except maybe a Triumph Bonneville or Royal Enfield.
Im a 155lb vegitarian, artist, hippy.....hardly your avarage Harley thuglette...The guys I rode with
were normal guys who wanted to see old train stuff and historical sites up an down the east coast.
They hit a Hooters and a few weird cafes and pile miles on like crazy...great times. Nice people.

Back on track....Biker gangs mostly got their start from disenfranchised veterans after different
wars. Hence the attachment to American made iron.  When gangs were starting to get traction
in the USA, there werent even too many bigcc bikes. A Triumph or HD was really your only
choice for  a wicked ride....Traditions die hard, especially when dealing with cro-mags who arent
known to be open minded or too intelligent t begin with.  Unfortunately, those dimwits stick
to the J-bike/crap credo that you would expect. They --DO NOT--- represent even most HD riders.
I lived in the midst of bike territory in PA, Pagans and Warlocks...later when the Angels came
in they F'ed up a lot of events for everyone by getting them canceled through threat of violence
or other dum sht. Everyone was angry and thought of them as supreme D'Bagz.
Please dont judge HD ppl by knuckdragging, mouthbreathing 1%'ers.
HD ppl love their logo'd stuff and sort of do have a lifestyle. They love their bikes . You cant
blame them.....

As an old hippy, I would just say walk up to a group of them and talk about riding. You might
be surprised at what response you get. IF they were like the guys I rode with, you would have
great new friends for life and lots of good stuff to lok forward to every weekend  

Peace out...its all good, Live and let live  

[scottpA_GS]

Very well written Birdman! 

You answered his questions... That doesn't happen to often here  I always wondered as well, why most "biker gangs" ride Harleys.. Never put 2 and 2 together that they are "American Made"

 

[tt_four]

What part of PA are you from?

The american vs. japanese thing is what I figure is the biggest factor, but that still doesn't explain why you never see a guy or two on buells in the group, or even who gangs of guys on buells. I know they'd get picked on by the guys with cruisers, and tradition keeps them on a certain bike, but you'd think over the past 20 years it could've slowly shifted by itself.

I didn't want this to turn into an anti-Harley thread. Like I said, my dad has one, and he's not at all what you'd think of as a Harley guy. I find it amusing because you could tell people he has a Harley and a Rottweiler, and people might think he was tough, even though it's just a sportster 883 and the dog is a skinny little 55lb guy with a puppy face that loves to play. Plus that's why I also mentioned that the whole Harley image has been completely softened up to a standard motorcycle image, but some gangs are in denial and swear they're the only bikes you can be tough on.

[08GSSteve]

  don't tell anyone that most HD parts are made in CHINA and only assembled in America.


Problem with walking up and talking to guys on HD's in my experience is unless you ride a HD, many HD riders do not want to know you.  There are the exceptions but many will turn their nose up at you and look down at anything not costing 20k+

Some of my good mates ride HD's and the "superior look at me, look at how big my d!ck is" attitide comes out when riding with them.  Besides this minor illusion of male organ growth and testosterone deoderant I have no problems with HD riders.

Not placing ALL HD riders in the same basket just making observations and commenting on experiences.

[birdman561]

What part of PA are you from?

The american vs. japanese thing is what I figure is the biggest factor, but that still doesn't explain why you never see a guy or two on buells in the group, or even who gangs of guys on buells. I know they'd get picked on by the guys with cruisers, and tradition keeps them on a certain bike, but you'd think over the past 20 years it could've slowly shifted by itself.

I lived in Pittsburgh in the 60's to 1973, then Philly area, then Lancaster Co, before moving to Vermont and Florida.
I LOVE PA !! Id go back  inna minute if my Wife would agree  

The Buell thing, Its just not a popular bike . People just dont like Buells.  HD guys dont like them because they are not
Cruiserish enuff, and sportbikers dont like them because of the HD affiliation and no 150 at the read wheel.
 I'm looking a an older XB9 if I can get some more work.  
Whats ironic is I could say any of the same stuff about sportbike riders that is said bout HD riders....ya know, needing
a uniform, arrogant, posuerish etc...but I wont. Really, who needs full Dianese one-piece and a racer rep bike on the
road ?  sound familiar ?? But, isnt it great we have the choice and can do what we want ? I think so
In my 35 years riding, Ive had a lot of costumes hung in my closet for all the different  bikes Ive owned....I met great
people in every genre of bike. We all have more in common than the not, when the uniforms are taken away.



Heres my Sportster at the monthly ride in Ephrata, PA.
In the back is my friend Matts, R6

[bettingpython]

Arrogant... check I hate answering stupid questins like how fast will it go or does it wheelie.
Poseurish... nope I ride, and not to the bar to show off my new chrome pipes and farkle lights to my buddies while chugging beer then getting out on the road and endangering the public.
Uniform... damn don't have one of those either, I don't have a single stitch of clothing that says honda on it, leathers yep check... of course mine are for function not style. Fingerless gloves... assless chaps leather vest...  yeah at least if I go for the slide all my surface contact points are covered.

C'mon birdman you can do better than that.

[jserio]

i've always thought it was more about "the ride" and not "what you ride". 

[08GSSteve]

^^^ agree 100% about the Jap bike riders as well

As a Road Trail rider on my KLR650 I notice that many Jap bike riders do not give RT riders a nod or a wave and vice versa.  HD riders just don't nod or wave at anyone and Moped/scooter riders wave and nod at everyone wishing someone will just nod or wave back.....and then there is KTM.....Anyone I see riding a KTM over here is dressed in full KTM orange leathers or jacket, KTM boots, KTM gloves, KTM helmet stickers, KTM this KTM that blah blah blah looks bloody stupid.  I rode once with a bunch of KTM riders on a Adventure Rider meet couple of years back......Once they finished laughing and making stupid comments about my KLR650 as mine was the oldest cheapest bike there and not a high end KTM like there's none of them would engage in conversation with ANY of us guys on Jap Road Trails.  Only upside to that ride was one of the KTM riders with the big mouth crashed his KTM 990ADV being stupid and showing off in front of his KTM mates  

After riding and owning all classes of bike except a HD I do find it strange where riders place themselves on the motorcycle food chain.

Birdman:  Nice looking sportster.

Buell has a long way to go before they become competitive with the Jap market as Buel on many of their bikes have not been able to correct the low speed vibrations that shake the bike apart (that bit of info from a HD mechanic)