Speeding bikers beat the cameras

[Punkalflufen]

This is a news artical taken from The Australian (national news paper)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26074126-601,00.html

Just thought the reporters remarks were interesting and he has missed the point completely.

Speeding bikers beat the cameras

A NATIONAL police commissioners' plan to force motorcyclists to wear front number plates has been dumped after 10 years' study, at a direct cost of almost $500,000 and millions more lost in government revenues.

For almost 30 years, motorcyclists have been able to thumb their noses at speed cameras - sometimes travelling at more than double the speed limit - because they have not had to display front number plates for safety reasons.

States are forgoing an estimated $2million a year each in revenue from fines as motorcycles evade detection on speed cameras.

The latest report from Victoria's Road Safety and Transport group said this month that "identifying vehicles engaged in illegal acts, such as speeding or travelling through red lights at intersections, is a significant issue for enforcement agencies".

Some motorcyclists also escape detection from cameras that shoot the offenders by covering their rear licence plates.

Others flaunt their immunity by doing wheelies past police cameras.

Some offenders are caught only when they are identified by the tattoos on their arms.

Last year, NSW police arrested a motorcyclist who allegedly sped past police cameras near the Spit Bridge in Sydney more than 2000 times while covering his rear number plate with his hand to avoid detection. The motorcyclist was finally arrested and charged with 62 offences after a policeman recognised his clothing and motorbike and saw him speed past a camera with a hand over his rear plate. The motorcyclist lost 200 demerit points and was fined $7500.
Last night, West Australian Police Minister Rob Johnson told The Australian: "I don't believe anyone, motorcyclists, car or truck drivers, should be able to speed past a camera with impunity and continually put their own and other people's lives at risk."

In 2000, all police commissioners asked for a study to put front licence plates back on motorcycles because police believed riders were speeding because they would not be caught.

Front plates were removed after injuries to riders and pedestrians and because the plates affected air flow and steering.

According to Freedom of Information documents obtained by the Pedestrian Council of Australia, the study, conducted by Victorian transport authorities, found it was possible to use a system of stick-on plates or a mounting. However a method suitable for every existing motorcycle could not be found.

The study, ordered by the Australian Transport Council, which includes all transport ministers, went from 2002 to 2007 and cost taxpayers $419,980.

In March this year the Standing Committee on Transport decided not to proceed with the idea of front number plates and handed responsibility to the Queensland government to investigate electronic methods of identifying motorcycles from the roadside.

Last night a spokesman for federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said the Australian Transport Council had not considered the issue while he was minister.

The director of the Pedestrian Council of Australia, Harold Scruby, said that "one motorcyclist can break the law more than 2000 times is proof positive the system is a farce".

Mr Johnson said Western Australia was now leading the way with technology to get around the lack of number plates on motorcycles, with trials of dual lens cameras that photograph vehicles from both the front and rear.




Ok so I am going to send a letter to the editor mostly to ask them is they actually think every bike rider is a chopper riding bikie with tattoos no helmet and a big shotgun shooting all the innocents.

I do have a simple solution to the problem turn the front facing cameras around the majority of them already to face backwards (but this will cost money and they are only interested in profits)

That brings me to profits, but in austral in the 70's when we had front number plates 12 riders where seriously injured or killed as a direct result of number plats (the number plate was like a little razor on the front of the bike, think Carmageddon on 2 wheels) and the number was similar for pedestrians (this is off the top of my head and I will find the reference before I send them the letter). Now how much is that going to cost the government a year? They are after 2 mill a state so that's 14 mill (they probably used NSW value and used it on every state and if they did that cost to lost revenue will be a lot less) in "lost" revenue a year. The number of riders in Aust has increase considerably over the past 30 odd years so the small number of pedestrians and riders killed as a direct result of putting number plates on bike will be greater than before...

OK gets of soap box and looks around to see know one around picks up soap box and walks away mumble stuff to himself...

Anyway does anyone have anything they would like to add or comments?

Thanks for reading

[bubba zanetti]

No it wasn't me.

[black and silver twin]

  maybe it was me
F!$%#*G  speed cameras

I read a report that a guy shot a speed camera with a .223 rifle after he got caught. I say go get-em dude

disclaimer: I do NOT condone shooting of cameras, gotta cover my own a$$.

[mister]

This is dumb... they mention Queensland as if it's a non-complying state. But Queensland has speed cameras that take a photo of the Rear of the bike. In fact, that's all I've seen in this state so the Lost Revenue Argument doesn't wash in the state of Qld.

The states of NSW and VIC on the other hand, do have cameras that take the front of a vehicle. And VIC has been looking into what we call Bacon Slicers for bikes.

Michael

[08GSSteve]

Over here in WA as you guys may be well aware Perth is now using "Point to Point" cameras on a new freeway that was just finished.  Car, bike whatever passes point A then travels say 4km then goes through the second camera.  Calculation is then run using distance and time and if your average speed is higher than the posted speed you can expect a ticket in the mail.  Sure you can just pull over to beat the system but from what I have been told those cameras are hidden well.

On another note the motorcycle plate issue is easy.  A high visibility bar code attached to the front left fork.  Digital cameras these days when zoomed in will pick up the barcode sticker that ID's the rego.

A barcode will fit the front of every bike.

[mister]

Point to point is the same thing used on the truckies. They go past the camera and their rego is noted. It is then cross referenced with other cameras. This way, they not only fine the truckies for going to fast between points, but also if they are seen to be driving through the city instead of around it without doing deliveries between.

All the tollways in Brisbane have now been replaced with Electronic Tolling. Go past the toll point and your number plate is photographed. Then just a small part away there is a secondary Double Check system. Cars are supposed to have small transponders for auto toll deduction from the Toll Account. Bikes "used" to need them. But the Qld Dept Transport has said no need to carry it in your pocket. They'll just use plate matching to bill your toll account.

Point out bikes that hide plates and whatnot is a silly argument cause cars do likewise too.

I'm just glad it looks like the Front Plate thing is finally dead. I'd say some pollie made money off the Study while Insurance Co pull pushed it overt the edge into oblivion.

Michael

[tt_four]

A barcode will fit the front of every bike.

and be easily beaten by a sharpie. We used to do it all the time on the back of friends ID/Lunch cards in high school just to be a jerk.

Yeah, all you need on a car is one of those stupid plastic plate covers. Aside from the tinted ones you can't see through when they're brand new, the clear ones get filthy after a little while and you can't see through them anyway. I never see cops harassing them like they do motorcycles.

[johnny ro]

your revenue hungry electors could do away with all this trouble by mandating engine management systems be linked to orbital satellites or maybe roadside transponders to check speed limit data.

Vehicles electronically governed to local speed limit.

It makes more sense but wont happen because current deal generates revenue for state from miscreants.

[NF11624]

I guess 'Mad Max' really did a number on the Aussie government.  Hidden cameras on your highways to make sure you don't go above the limit?  GPS in your ECU?  Speed governed from space?

All kidding aside, these seem pretty '1984'.  I will contribute to the madness though with my own suggestion.
Seems to me like one simple solution is to embed RFID tags in the plates.  Then you can just scan the plates, and no 'hand over plate' ridiculousness.  No tag?  Then do photo, alert police.  If you then get caught, automatic ticket/arrest for additional $$.  Seems easy.  In my city, we have special cameras that activate when there is a gunshot (don't ask).  These alert the police.  Seems an easy adaptation for red light cams.

[tt_four]

They've been talking about installing those cameras downtown here as well. A couple people have been shot downtown lately. It's too small of an area for them to do anything at all for traffic, as it's too tight to even try to speed in town.

I can't even imagine how fast the sportbike market would crumble if they found a way to limit your bike to the actual speed limit. I do see potential safety issues though, such as passing a semi, being 5 feet from the front of him, which already took a full minute to do because you're already at the speed limit, and all of a sudden he decides he wants to pull into your lane. You're waaaay too far to slam on your brakes and think you can get behind him before he runs you off the road. The only reasonable answer would be to accelerate and get infront of him, but you've got a gps speed limiter on your bike, and have no option but to watch yourself get pushed off the side of the highway in slow motion. The safer option at that point is just to ride off of the shoulder to limit your chances of getting run over by 5 of his wheels, and at this point he doesn't even know what happened, and the cops say it was your fault because you're the one who rode off the side of the road.

[NF11624]

The cameras are OK... you know you have a problem when A&E starts filming in your town.  My whole thing with the cameras is that by the time they take a pic, the dude who fired is long gone.

You do bring up a good point about the speed limit safety thing.  There would be too much litigation/protesting/lobbying for anything like that to ever pass - one of the times when all bikers come together

[tt_four]

It depends how well they're wired together. If a large area turns on when the gun fires, they would at least get video of anyone who's running away from the scene. Yes, I know a LOT of people will now be running away from the scene, but having it documented can only help to know who was there and wasn't, not to mention if a witness said "it was a guy in black pants and a blue Phillies(Yes, that's what I meant) jacket" they should get a couple good pictures. The other thing, is that securities technology is way beyond anything I can imagine these days, and if your city is willing to pay for it, I bet those cameras will turn on fast enough to get a picture of someone before they put their gun away. If you care to try it out, find a clapper on ebay, circa 1989, hook it up in your garage to a lamp, shoot a gun, and see if you can hide the gun and run away before the lamp turns on.

[ohgood]

maybe it was me
F!$%#*G  speed cameras

I read a report that a guy shot a speed camera with a .223 rifle after he got caught. I say go get-em dude

disclaimer: I do NOT condone shooting of cameras, gotta cover my own a$$.

why the heck not ? i do. arrest me for exercising one of my rights, i dare ya (mr lawman)

speed cameras are completely for profit, everyone knows this. if it was for safety, there would be huge mounds of assphault for speed breakers instead of cameras. you can't doulbe the speed limit (for long) over those huge mounds.

when people finally are fed up with taxation for the sake of taxation, it will end. won't be today, won't be tomorrow either.

i'm for torching/burning/shooting/dragging/dismanteling all the speed cameras you find. make the police for WORK for the tickets. it's not about revenue, it's SUPPOSED to be about patroling, protecting, and enforcing laws. speaking of which, we have around 10000 times more laws than needed. common sense is blurred by sorry sob's called lawyers, and smudged by even sorrier folk called politicians.

rant off

[black and silver twin]

maybe it was me
F!$%#*G  speed cameras

I read a report that a guy shot a speed camera with a .223 rifle after he got caught. I say go get-em dude

disclaimer: I do NOT condone shooting of cameras, gotta cover my own a$$.

why the heck not ? i do. arrest me for exercising one of my rights, i dare ya (mr lawman)

speed cameras are completely for profit, everyone knows this. if it was for safety, there would be huge mounds of assphault for speed breakers instead of cameras. you can't doulbe the speed limit (for long) over those huge mounds.

when people finally are fed up with taxation for the sake of taxation, it will end. won't be today, won't be tomorrow either.

i'm for torching/burning/shooting/dragging/dismanteling all the speed cameras you find. make the police for WORK for the tickets. it's not about revenue, it's SUPPOSED to be about patroling, protecting, and enforcing laws. speaking of which, we have around 10000 times more laws than needed. common sense is blurred by sorry sob's called lawyers, and smudged by even sorrier folk called politicians.

rant off

Im just being overly cautious (paranoid). there have been many arrests in my area recently because of illegal downloading of music, books, etc. our internet use is monitored somehow. 

[NF11624]

Not somehow... its pretty easy to monitor the interweb.  Much easier than policing other things.  All data goes through a relatively small number of servers and every packet of data has header info including where its coming from and where its going to.

Back to the topic of gun-cams... It's illegal to fire a gun in my town, but the city needs all the help it can get.  I think we are among the leaders in per capita murder... and there was a triple homicide the other day here.  A&E has done a number of Crime 360 episodes here as well.

Finally on the topic of speeding, I agree that the police should have to work for the tickets.

[cstilt]

Finally on the topic of speeding, I agree that the police should have to work for the tickets.

I agree with that too. I always saw it as a game. They have a radar/laser gun, I have a radar detector and my vision. Sorta like cat and mouse. With all the redlight cams and so on I think they're just cheating...

[Punkalflufen]

Finally on the topic of speeding, I agree that the police should have to work for the tickets.

I agree with that too. I always saw it as a game. They have a radar/laser gun, I have a radar detector and my vision. Sorta like cat and mouse. With all the redlight cams and so on I think they're just cheating...

But they have radar detector detectors and if you get caught with one of those you are up for more then a speeding fine.

But the thing that pissed me off it the old number plates did kill and injure people sometimes in accidents that you would walk away from, if they bring in the same/similar plates the profits from the fines would not add up to the cost (to the government) of the medical expenses, but that money is in a different bucket and would be over looked.

The barcode idea sounds workable and if we get to pick the colours (knowing the RTA for a extra cost) then i can see it being accepted, i just don't want a sharp piece of metal on the front of my bike that could kill or injure myself or someone else.

I have never been pulled over for speeding or got a ticket from speeding through a speed camera so for me speed cameras are not the issue it is the way the reporter has twisted and omitted information to make the public see his point of view but hey that's the way journalism works.

Has anyone ever tried to cover there number plate with there hand when travailing over the speed limit? I have not but I don't think I could do It if I did try, I used to ride dirt bikes so getting my foot in the general area would not be to hard but I have never done that on the road.

[mister]

Has anyone ever tried to cover there number plate with there hand when travailing over the speed limit? I have not but I don't think I could do It if I did try, I used to ride dirt bikes so getting my foot in the general area would not be to hard but I have never done that on the road.

I could't cover my number plate with my hand while riding no matter how hard I tried.

I did see an image supposedly taken by a speed camera and the rider had his foot over the plate. To me, it looked completely staged. But the media sure do love those things.

Michael

[tt_four]

Yeah, I think if it was someone covering it by hand it was most likely someone on a chopper with a side mounted plate or something like that. It would be pretty easy if it was someone on a bobbed streetfighter as well, but they're pretty uncommon as far as things go. I saw that picture as well, and did try it because I was curious. It's not too hard to get your foot over the plate, but we don't have cameras here so it's not too much of an issue. If you're that concerned I think it would be more worth it to come up with some kind of hinge/spring/string setup so you could just flip your plate up, although it would have to be hidden well enough that you didn't get arrested next time you got pulled over.

[bassmechanicsz]

The one thing about these red light cameras that nobody has mentioned yet is that they can't always prove that it was you on the bike and that someone else could have been riding it that day so you should be able to get out of a ticket or atleast have a much better chance of getting out of the ticket than if an actual police officer were to pull you over.

I know around me i have been pulled over for speeding but having a radar detector has actually gotten me out of some tickets.  The cop has walked up and noticed it sitting on my dash and asked how well it works.  Answered it works well and then he just told me to slow it down some since i knew that he never turned on his radar gun to know how fast i was actually going and wouldn't be able to prove it.  Only works when they don't actually have their radar gun on but then if they did the radar detector would be going off so i know he is there and slow down anyway.

As far as actually covering your license plate while riding i don't think i would be flexible enough to even attempt doing that while still riding but then again i have never tried and am not to concerned about speed cameras around me since their aren't any.

The only thing i have heard of them doing is on toll roads that have tolls every so many miles that they can have monitored how fast cars will make it from one toll to the next and have given out tickets based on what your average speed would be to cover that many mles in a certain amount of time.