Buell is dead. Finally.

[annguyen1981]

Want some REAL sad news?


MV Agusta (owned by HD) is now either for sale, or being shut down if it doesn't sell.

[The Buddha]

Yea one more company that had potential to well, turn a pile of metal into irrelevant objects better than any one else.

Let duc follow and I may be a little interested.

Seriously, Yea they were great in the 50-60's. Then they went under ... like 10 times in the next 30 years. Then easy money revived them, much like it did with excelsior henderson, Indian, and a bunch of other garbage.

They were all 1 trick ponies. Recession does a good job of clearing out the dead wood.

Utility motorcycles, ones that have the potential to replace a car on america's streets regardless of category/genre are what IMHO should survive. Crotch rocket only, luxo boat tourers only, whatever garbage only are all about as useful as well, cars that only make left hand turns or studying auto racing as a bachelors degree.

All we need is a sustained gas price of 5 bucks a gal, and a recession where people cant buy any crap and toss it on their credit card. They buy things they will have to use, pay for and best of all, maintain.

BTW, WTF makes that Fugly ass shoe box of a car a "smart" one I dont see it get smaller when there is one occupant, and dont see it expand to take in 12 people. I also dont see it watch the road or interact with the driver past the wheels and pedals. And I dont see it even talk to other "smart" cars.

Its dumber than a furby, and about as useful and not as cute as a furby.

Cool.
Buddha.

[tt_four]

BTW, WTF makes that Fugly ass shoe box of a car a "smart" one I dont see it get smaller when there is one occupant, and dont see it expand to take in 12 people. I also dont see it watch the road or interact with the driver past the wheels and pedals. And I dont see it even talk to other "smart" cars.

Its dumber than a furby, and about as useful and not as cute as a furby.

Did you think they were trying to say it was smart because of what it was?? Nooo, the only reason that car exists is because companies know that with the pressure to make fuel efficient line ups would mean trouble like a company who only makes "performance" cars like Mercede's. Having the Smartcar in their line up throw off their curve well enough to let them keep making their rest of their cars exactly how they were, and then make one car that gets really good gas mileage. It was smart from a business model that wants to get around an honest request for companies to make more responsible cars.

Aside from that, I love MV Agusta. Specifically the Brutale. Way out of my price range, and goes against everything I like about common bikes that are easy to get parts and work on, but still, if I was old enough to retire, and was looking for a bike to cruise around on now that I actually have money to spend in my savings account, it would be a Brutale.

Have you seen the F4CC?? More HP than a Hayabusa, and it weighs 100lbs less. It costs $120,000, but that's beside the point.

[The Buddha]

I'll make an F4CC, it will be 400 CC a parallel twin, weigh 100 lbs, cost $1,200 and run for a year on the fuel in a hayabusa's tank.
More over it will have a motor that can be swapped out for the F4CCC when that is invented, a FI that will also be upgradeable by itself and it will say what part of what does what.

Like for example, your green wire with yellow tracer goes into the black box from the trigger mechanism for the left cylinder. If you're misfiring on the left cylinder, and your trigger mechanism has >1K when its not inducted, and <1ohm when its inducted, the black box has the problem in this resistance, this capacitor and this diode. replace those and you're fine.

Cool.
Buddha.

[tt_four]

You lost me. Did I mention that the F4CC goes 195mph off the show room floor? Japanese companies won't even go over 186. Gentleman's aggreements are for slow people!!

[The Buddha]

My F4CC goes 195 mpg.
I'm just saying they are making more concept garbage. How about we get a concept bike that is rideable, useable, maintainable and upgradeable and not filled with mumbo jumbo.
Cool.
Buddha.

[newbie]

BUELL HAD SOME GREAT BIKES!.... You turds just dont like them cause your all ANTI-HD cause HD riders are ANTI-SPORT BIKE!....GET OVER IT! A BIKE IS A BIKE! Buell had some firsts for designs and did amazing things with a sporty motor. A motor that you could say was some what out dated....just like your gs!

[The Buddha]

Precisely. They should've stuffed a GS motor in that buell. I'm kidding. That was their be-last. Anyway, I liked the sportster motor'ed ones. The Rotax, while the motor was better, it just was fugly.
They should have got the rotax ones to look like the previous version.
That radiator/coffin/concrete mixer ruined the whole bike on the rotax ones.
Cool.
Buddha.

[ohgood]

QUICK! Buy a Buell, they are gonna be worth poop loads now! 

lol ! ya, just like ENRON coffee mugs, and JEFF DIDN"T LIE t-shirts.



I read this thread title as "Buell Blast is really dead" and then realized - oh no, BUELL is dead. I'd really like to see American Engineering actually do something that wasn't stupid for once. You know, compete with the jap bikes. Compete with the world on -any- type of event.

The idea that it has to be a v-twin to be american, god, why ? The 4's are doing such an awesome job, such a SMOOTH awesome job, with tons of power. Even P-twins. Why oh why is the V so important ?

I'd rather not see the BUells die. I'd like to see them innovate, engineer, and thumb their noses at HD, american stupidity, and sub standard quality. I'd really like to see american manufacturing WIN for once, but it seems we're too worried about muscles, machismo, and V's to to anything worth a damn.

[tt_four]

Word on the street is that Yamaha is showing some interest. Of all the companies, it doesn't surprise me considering their history with the v-max, and the newer MT-01.

[NF11624]

I never liked the Buells for a few reasons, not one of them being it was an HD subsidiary (and thus they can't really thumb their noses at HD).  One, the proportions were really bizarre, at least to the eye.  These were generally bizarre looking bikes.  Second, they didn't have any credibility as a performance motorcycle (in my eyes at least).  They didn't start racing with the other manufacturers until a couple years ago when the rules were changed (as Buddha mentioned) - and I don't remember hearing about them being competitive.  Third, they were kindof pricey, especially compared to the established brands.

[The Buddha]

Word on the street is that Yamaha is showing some interest. Of all the companies, it doesn't surprise me considering their history with the v-max, and the newer MT-01.

I hope to god you're right, and it does get bought by yamaha and better yet, Erik Buell gets them to stuff the TRX motor (parallel twin - 900 cc worth) in it.
Yes that pic, with the 900 TRX in it, I'l line up to buy one, lightly used ...
I'd also take a baby version with a XS 650 motor in it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Then youd sit around the buddhas temple of gs'ness and figure out how to stuff oen into a gs frame Eh?, lol hell i know i would

[ohgood]

1 BUELL HAD SOME GREAT BIKES!.... 2 You turds just dont like them cause your all ANTI-HD cause HD riders are ANTI-SPORT BIKE!....3 GET OVER IT! A BIKE IS A BIKE! 4 Buell had some firsts for designs and did amazing things with a sporty motor. 5 A motor that you could say was some what out dated....just like your gs!

1- debatable, of course, but if they were so great, why didn't they:
sell
win (in their proper bracket)
blow away 600cc jap bikes

2 - false.  SOME people are anti-cruiser/sport/tourer/adv, but not everyone.

3 - false. if A BIKE IS A BIKE IS A BIKE were true, you wouldn't mind commuting on a 250 chinese made crapbox scooter that kills it's engine every 300 miles. this is so false. soo entirely false. good bikes rock, but bikes that last 20 years reliably deserve their spot in history and garages. buell did not. sorry.

4 - amazing ? like racing 600cc sportbikes ? sorry, i'm stuck on that one right now.

5 - no one has ever proclaimed a gs motor to be NEW TECH or fancy. it's simple, easy to work on (mostly) and reliable. reliable trumps most everything else in my book. there is no comparison between the 4xx cc engine of the gs and the behemoths of HD as far as power output. start comparing longevity, reliability, and cheap maintenance, then we'll talk.


^ they were your points. defend em ?

[gearman]

I became an Erik buell fan back in the 80's when I saw what he could do with the antiquated sporty motor in the BOT series. It wouldn't surprise me if he went down in history as one of the great innovators of motorcycle design. I've ridden the '94 S2 Thunderbolt and '96 S1 Lightning. Both were well made and had plenty of hp for my skill level. The Lightning (90+ hp) felt like a dirtbike with mega torque, but the wheelbase/steering geometry made it a little too skittish for my liking. The Thunderbolt (82 hp) on the other hand was longer, heavier and much friendlier for all around use. I believe the sporty motor starts significantly losing reliability/longevity much above 80 hp. It's sad to see them go but it was nothing short of a miracle that they even existed to start with. They truly made a silk purse from a sows ear.

[tt_four]

I never liked the Buells for a few reasons, not one of them being it was an HD subsidiary (and thus they can't really thumb their noses at HD).  One, the proportions were really bizarre, at least to the eye.  These were generally bizarre looking bikes.  Second, they didn't have any credibility as a performance motorcycle (in my eyes at least).  They didn't start racing with the other manufacturers until a couple years ago when the rules were changed (as Buddha mentioned) - and I don't remember hearing about them being competitive.  Third, they were kindof pricey, especially compared to the established brands.

All of these points only make any sense if you're trying to compare one to a sport bike, which they're not. The proportions are bizarre for a sportbike, but they make pretty good sense for a standard upright streetbike. I'll admit it took a little while for them to really grown on me, but there was something that always attracted me to them from the first time I saw them

They're not really performance racing bikes, they're just supposed to be a fun street bike made out of a base you would never expect. I haven't seen any Honda 919s, FZ1s, or Z1000s racing against sportbikes either, and that class of motorcycle is what Buell does. Just because you want to make street bikes doesn't mean you have to want to be competitive with racing bikes. I don't feel like all car manufactures have to compete with NASCAR or formula one cars to be taken seriously.

They might cost more than a similar japanese bike, but that's not a fair arguement. Comparing random products with a mass produced asian product does NOT mean that the original is expensive, it just means that asian products are able to be made cheaper because of the massive production numbers and lower costs of production. That's like comparing everything you buy at a real store to the items you could buy at walmart. You can get things cheaper there, but I still refuse to step inside the place.

I understand the points if all you've ever looked at are Japanese bikes, but not everyone wants a high revving race bike. The XB9 was made for people who ride in the city, so it makes sense to me.  On the opposite end, when I look at a lot of Japanese bikes, I just feel like they're bland and have no soul. I hated the reliability issues I had with my Triumph, but bikes like that are so much fun I'm willing to deal with it just because there's more to a fun bike than numbers and race stats. Even the firebolt, which has that quarter fairing and clipons, still isn't really a racing bike. It's just a street bike with a fairing and clipons considering that's what people want. They had a tough time because they're an American company, working in a European class, but still in America. All naked bikes do horrible in this country compared to other countries. That's why we don't get the majority of the bikes the Japanese companies are making. The fact that they were able to compete with the Japanese sportbike market in this country with American street bikes at all is amazing, let alone for 25 years.

[birdman561]

The XB9 was made for people who ride in the city, so it makes sense to me.  On the opposite end, when I look at a lot of Japanese bikes, I just feel like they're bland and have no soul. I hated the reliability issued I had with my Triumph, but bikes like that are so much fun I'm willing to deal with it just because there's more to a fun bike than numbers and race stats.

People always buy what they think the need rather than what is best for them in reality.
Sportbike pplz exemplify this phenomenon....
Whenever I see a 19 year old kid with a new R6 or GSXR I say seven Hail Mry's and then laff.
WTF are they thinking ? Id venture to say that if there were 1000 sportbike riders in one room
and even 200 had an open mind, 199 of them would prefer the Buell after riding in the situations
they ride in.  WTF does someone need a sportbike for in S.Fl or NY or any urban area.....
Yeah, its personal and all that, blah, blah, blah, but if people knew what they are missing by
mismatching thier bike needs to reality they would come around. I've had three hondas and two Harleys,
a Kawasaki a Yamaha600 and 2 Suzukis in the past 15 years....My Harleys, aside from having by far
the best finishing quality , also were the most reliable due to hydro valves and belt drives. My
Softtail NEVER needed any work, and it was a daily, year 'round rider in PA.

[NF11624]

I never liked the Buells for a few reasons, not one of them being it was an HD subsidiary (and thus they can't really thumb their noses at HD).  One, the proportions were really bizarre, at least to the eye.  These were generally bizarre looking bikes.  Second, they didn't have any credibility as a performance motorcycle (in my eyes at least).  They didn't start racing with the other manufacturers until a couple years ago when the rules were changed (as Buddha mentioned) - and I don't remember hearing about them being competitive.  Third, they were kindof pricey, especially compared to the established brands.

All of these points only make any sense if you're trying to compare one to a sport bike, which they're not. The proportions are bizarre for a sportbike, but they make pretty good sense for a standard upright streetbike. I'll admit it took a little while for them to really grown on me, but there was something that always attracted me to them from the first time I saw them

They're not really performance racing bikes, they're just supposed to be a fun street bike made out of a base you would never expect. I haven't seen any Honda 919s, FZ1s, or Z1000s racing against sportbikes either, and that class of motorcycle is what Buell does. Just because you want to make street bikes doesn't mean you have to want to be competitive with racing bikes. I don't feel like all car manufactures have to compete with NASCAR or formula one cars to be taken seriously.

They might cost more than a similar japanese bike, but that's not a fair arguement. Comparing random products with a mass produced asian product does NOT mean that the original is expensive, it just means that asian products are able to be made cheaper because of the massive production numbers and lower costs of production. That's like comparing everything you buy at a real store to the items you could buy at walmart. You can get things cheaper there, but I still refuse to step inside the place.

I understand the points if all you've ever looked at are Japanese bikes, but not everyone wants a high revving race bike. The XB9 was made for people who ride in the city, so it makes sense to me.  On the opposite end, when I look at a lot of Japanese bikes, I just feel like they're bland and have no soul. I hated the reliability issues I had with my Triumph, but bikes like that are so much fun I'm willing to deal with it just because there's more to a fun bike than numbers and race stats. Even the firebolt, which has that quarter fairing and clipons, still isn't really a racing bike. It's just a street bike with a fairing and clipons considering that's what people want. They had a tough time because they're an American company, working in a European class, but still in America. All naked bikes do horrible in this country compared to other countries. That's why we don't get the majority of the bikes the Japanese companies are making. The fact that they were able to compete with the Japanese sportbike market in this country with American street bikes at all is amazing, let alone for 25 years.

I understand your reasoning... but Buell's own philosophy is that they were making 'American Sportbikes,' and I think that when you look at sport bikes, you have to consider the Japanese models (even if you don't just limit yourself to the super sports and above).  Compare an XB9 to an FZ6, ER-6N or SV650 and you get great looks, standard seat positions, and excellent performance and reliability.  And thats not even considering the European bikes - Ducati, BMW and others all make equally capable and much more desirable (by the general public) bikes than Buell - for a small price premium.

If Buell didn't claim to be a sport bike manufacturer and were just another company with a quirky lineup that caters to a certain segment (like BMW), I would agree with you and probably have an open mind.  But they are like many American companies in that they want to compete with the established brands from other countries but provide the market with lackluster product - just look at the small cars that were produced in America from 1990 onwards (just an example, there are doubtless more), and simply bank on a 'Made in the USA' sticker.

And if you don't think they aimed to be a sport bike manufacturer I ask you to look at their website...

[yamahonkawazuki]

1 BUELL HAD SOME GREAT BIKES!.... 2 You turds just dont like them cause your all ANTI-HD cause HD riders are ANTI-SPORT BIKE!....3 GET OVER IT! A BIKE IS A BIKE! 4 Buell had some firsts for designs and did amazing things with a sporty motor. 5 A motor that you could say was some what out dated....just like your gs!

1- debatable, of course, but if they were so great, why didn't they:
sell
win (in their proper bracket)
blow away 600cc jap bikes

2 - false.  SOME people are anti-cruiser/sport/tourer/adv, but not everyone.

3 - false. if A BIKE IS A BIKE IS A BIKE were true, you wouldn't mind commuting on a 250 chinese made crapbox scooter that kills it's engine every 300 miles. this is so false. soo entirely false. good bikes rock, but bikes that last 20 years reliably deserve their spot in history and garages. buell did not. sorry.

4 - amazing ? like racing 600cc sportbikes ? sorry, i'm stuck on that one right now.

5 - no one has ever proclaimed a gs motor to be NEW TECH or fancy. it's simple, easy to work on (mostly) and reliable. reliable trumps most everything else in my book. there is no comparison between the 4xx cc engine of the gs and the behemoths of HD as far as power output. start comparing longevity, reliability, and cheap maintenance, then we'll talk.


^ they were your points. defend em ?

These are your opinions, so ill leave most of them at that. BUT as far as reliability, IF properly warmed up, ( any bike engine should do this) an HD engine will get 175k on top end close to 200 on lower, also didnt ducati, have rules changed for it as well?, so theyre in teh same class i guess. but to each his own. , let the biased flameage continue

[birdman561]

These are your opinions, so ill leave most of them at that. BUT as far as reliability, IF properly warmed up, ( any bike engine should do this) an HD engine will get 175k on top end close to 200 on lower, also didnt ducati, have rules changed for it as well?, so theyre in teh same class i guess. but to each his own. , let the biased flameage continue

wird.

I wonder how the anti-HD stuff I read gets started and why pplz who think they are intelligent actually believe it ?