GS5 vs. Harley...Now, the Story can be Told!!!

[scottpA_GS]

 I was soo happy to get you on that one... Hahah....  

Glad we can agree to disagree    You keep one footin and Ill keep two footin  

Together we can hate the tool bag Harley Riders  (not saying they are all tools either) 

[tt_four]

I'll second the left foot first, that's what we were taught in my MSF. You can put your right foot down shortly after, but they told us to keep it on the brake until you actually stop.

Why aren't people allowed to ride bikes when they can't get their feet flat on the ground? That's the kind of ignorance that made me thing I should but a ninja250, 50 feet down the road I knew I made a mistake. Most sportbikes aren't designed so you can get both feet flat on the ground unless you're over 6foot. That would make a good beginners bike arguement, but for someone who knows how to ride, you don't need to get both of your feet flat on the ground if you're comfortable. I could ride a passenger, back the bike up, and do whatever else I needed on the balls of my feet. I often only put my left foot down because I could get my whole foot on the ground that way and was comfortable.

My dad has a sportster 883. I have only ridden with him once or twice when i had my 600, and it was TORTURE riding behind him. He wasn't trying to go fast, so I can't say it was the bike being slow, but still it killed me. When he wasn't looking I'd pick the wheel up 3 inches because I was going through withdrawal from actually riding a normal speed, but I kept getting the look in his mirror.

[gregvhen]

 I should have noticed the "free wladziu" in your sig.. and knew I was in for it...

"free wladziu" has been in my sig for months yet I have somehow refrained from accusing complete strangers of not knowing how to ride all this time.

Dude... Your whole post was accusing complete strangers of not knowing how to ride


Now there is a BURN for ya Greg   



Im not tryin to start a fight... I love all you guys!   

Dude i love when people say burn. as soon as i read ashton kucher pops into my mind yelling it at someone and i start laughing really hard. sorry to say though, while it did make me laugh, i dont feel it was super legit. cause his main thesis statement of the post was actually about how the GS can keep up with the biggins. so ill rate that burn at a 5.6 since he was suggesting that maybe they dont know how to ride, however we have obviously seen that differant MSF have taught differant styles of stopping.

[GSrookie500]

All I know is in my MSF class, they taught me to apply both  brakes when coming to a complete stop. MSF taught me that right foot should be on the rear brake while coming to a stop, then the left foot comes down first and then the right.

[mister]

Why keep right foot on brake?

So the bike will not roll backwards at lights that are anything but flat - while - giving you full control of the throttle (no need to twist back while trying to let fingers go forward to release brake).

Why keep one foot on bike - left or right?

In case of extreme road camber both feet cannot touch together without tipping the bike sideways. Rare though.

Why keep left foot on peg and right on ground?

So you can change out of 1st gear before your right foot makes it back to the peg. Because you can do it this way faster than trying to bring your left foot from ground to peg to change gears.

Courses in my state in Australia teach... right foot on brake all the time, left foot on ground.

*I* say... do what works for YOU.

I've got a good Harley story.... let me put it up in a little while...

Michael

[mister]

I raced a Harley the other day, and after some really hard riding I finally managed to pass the guy. I was riding on one of those really, really, twisting sections of Mountain road with no straight sections to speak of and where most of the curves have warning signs that say "15 MPH". I knew if I was going to pass one of those monsters with those big-cubic-inch motors, it would have to be a place like this where handling and rider skill are more important than horsepower alone. I saw the guy up ahead as I exited one of the turns and knew I could catch him, but it wouldn't be easy.

I concentrated on my braking and cornering. Three corners later, I was on his tail. Catching him was one thing; passing him would prove to be another. Two corners later, I pulled up next to him as we sailed down the mountain. I think he was shocked to see me next to him, as I nearly got by him before he could recover. Next corner, same thing. I'd manage to pull up next to him as we started to enter the corners but when we came out he'd get on the throttle and out power me. His horsepower was almost too much to overcome, but this only made me more determined than ever.

My only hope was to outbrake him. I held off squeezing the lever until the last instant. I kept my nerve while he lost his. In an instant, I was by him. Corner after corner, I could hear the roar of his engine as he struggled to keep up. Three more miles to go before the road straightens out and he would pass me for good. But now I was in the lead, and he would no longer hold me back. I stretched out my lead and by the time we reached the bottom of the mountain, he was more than a full corner behind. I could no longer see him in my rear-view mirror.

Once the road did straighten out, it seemed like it took miles before he passed me, but it was probably just a few hundred yards. I was no match for that kind of horsepower, but it was done. In the tightest section of road, where bravery and skill count for more than horsepower and deep pockets, I had passed him. Though it was not easy, I had won the race to the bottom of the mountain.

I will always remember that moment. I don't think I've ever pedaled so hard in my life. And some of the credit must go to Raleigh www.raleighusa.com, as well. They really make a great bicycle. I'm exhausted...

[GSrookie500]

HAHA, a bicycle? lol

[johnny ro]

You buy the harley because you wanna ride a harley. You just dont care about other motorcycles.

Nobody buys a harley to go fast. Harley is brilliant at marketing based on image rather than engineering or performance. Leather handlebar tassles flapping in the wind, tattoos on fat arm reaching forward to doublesized controls on handlebar.  Men with fun bags in dirty black tshirts and unwashed denim.

Harley lost the race with Japanese in the 1970s, well really in the late 1960s lost it to the British then Honda came out with CB750 and Kawi followed with KZ900 and there was no real more effort from Harley in that direction.  They lost in a seven way raceoff against a Yamaha 350 in the 1970s. Norton commando from 40 years ago was much better for sport riding than a sportser, and the norton was at end of its long lifecycle. And I believe the sportster has not evolved that much. 

They made XLCR and its nice and collectible but a ninja 250 will likely beat it anywhere including top speed.

You can get a harley motor in a modern bike, a Buell, but better hurry, Harley is killing Buell off in this down market.

I would rather have a clean 1935 ford car than a new harley, get the same old time mid america iron heritage stuff, and it has a roof on it and you can get a a heater for it and you can load it with another person and baggage and cruise  nicely at 45 on old roads once in a while. And its about the same cost.

[oramac]

MSF ERC instructs to apply both brakes until coming to a complete stop.  When arriving at the stop, you should be in first gear, and the LEFT foot should hit the ground first, followed by the Right.  The reason for the left foot down first is to insure that you use both brakes until you come to a complete stop. 

C'mon, tell me you've never seen the guy that comes to a near stop then puts both feet down and tries to 'Flintstone' the bike to a complete stop. 

Left foot hits the ground first, then right...Not both at the same time.  Then, while stopped, both feet should be down for stability.

My $.02

/threadjack

[DoD#i]

TBH, I don't recall what MSF said about it in 1987.

For shorter folk (or higher seats), there's no question that left foot down, bike leaned to left slightly is far more stable than trying to two-foot on your tippy toes. Bike leaned to left slightly is rather important here - straight up and down is not where you want to be with one foot down. Tripod is nice and stable.

As already pointed out, it also means that you can hold position on hills with the rear brake, so you don't have to try any complicated stuff with your right hand as you pull away. As I learned at some cost while visiting one of those equatorial countries where snow is not a consideration and the roads are thus somewhat steeper than we are used to, the front brake won't hold on a very steep uphill (stalled annoying little 2-stroke bike going up monstrous hill, two-footed it, slid backwards while holding front brake locked.)

For me, personally, putting both feet down means I have to go through a cycle of stand on the pegs and get my seat readjusted (old creaky joints - yes, pretty much every time I start out I have to do this) while just putting my left foot down does not require this rather graceless procedure. Where I sit when two-footing the GS leaves me with a horrible pain in my hips if I just pull my feet up onto the pegs.

...there is no One True Way.

[annguyen1981]

Im seeing that in my searches... Thats not what I was taught in  MSF training. If you are putting any feet down you should already be stopped... so why Left foot first?

I see posts saying its so you can cover the rear brake?? However you never put any foot down unless stopped... so.. if stopped why keep one foot on?

That said... I am focusing on "when stopped" not while stoping... so.. Both feet down!   Show me what good would come from having one foot on the brake while at a light?

Guess I was taught wrong.. All you one footed riders gohead w. your bad selvs 

Ah...  see Scott?  We're BOTH right. lol

I'm talking about while you're stopping.  I guess you're talking about while you're STOPPED.  

[tt_four]

"The time to take your left foot off the peg and put it on the ground is just as the bike comes to a complete stop." (bottom of page 17)

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Riding_Tips.pdf

Straight from the MSF manual. Now stop arguing.

(there's also a picture on page 48 of two riders stopped with only 1 foot down, it is just a picture though.)

[The Buddha]

That was very courageous of you. I will never follow them that close. Cos lets say, a cylinder head came off ... and hit your bike ... you could crash and die.
But other than that ... good deal.
Cool.
Buddha.

[ecpreston]

There is no reason to not have both feet down.

Heh, I totally forgot about MSF wanting both feet down. I so rarely do it! As a few others pointed out, there are plenty of reasons. And at least around here, I'd say half the time there's enough of an incline or decline while waiting at a light that just keeping the bike in place with right foot still on the rear brake is a lot easier than holding it with both feet. I mean, if you're on a decent hill, good luck holding the bike there without using some brake! I'll try to be more conscious of it on the way home today, but I rarely see any sportbike or other small bike rider stopped with both feet down.  

Anyway, good harley story, I see the wobbly ones riding around here too and keep my distance. I don't know why I'd ever feel challenged by one. They're slow, heavy cruisers. But the sportbike-harley hate doesn't seem to prevalent around here, it's all good.  

[scottpA_GS]

Now this story gets interesting 



I work at a motorcycle dealer, thismorning I brought up this debate while a customer was at the counter. Funny thing is... He was just ticketed last Thursday by the PA State Police for not putting both feet down when stopped 

So.. Now... We called our local MSF Instructor to see what the real deal is.. They are telling people to put your left down first covering the rear brake. They dont say wether or not to put the right down at all?? and he did not know if the state trooper was in the right or not.. The customer is going to fight the ticket based on how he was trained but we still dont know what the actual law is...

MSF Instructor said " What they teach in not necisarily the law, its safe operation" So.. Better check your State laws  MSF is not always teaching "The Law" 

[Pigeonroost]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/251889

[gregvhen]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/251889

Dang blocked at school.

[jserio]

this debate will never end. it's funny really. all sportbike riders seem to hate "the harley guys" and harley guys always seem to hate "sportbikes". interestingly enough, if you ask either group, they'll tell you they've not spent ANY time on the other machine. and therefore, in my eyes, have no clue, and no right to "bash" the other genre. someone mentioned the weight of a 1200 sportster. it's right about 550 running order. i demoed one. nice bike. handled great. was easy to move around the parking lot at slow speeds, stable at 60mph(didn't go faster, county road). now, i've not ridden a GS so i can't say the harley is a better bike. what i can say, is that i've sat on a newer gs in a showroom and tried to manuever it around a bit to get a feel for it's weight. and while it does technically weigh less than the harley, it "feels" much heavier. (center of gravity, i know). it almost seems to me alot of guys are trying to compare apples to oranges. sportbikes and cruisers were built with different purposes in mind. but they were all built with one common goal; to ride on two wheels and get that "alive" feeling that comes from watching the blacktop whisk away beneath your feet. i've always felt it's about "the ride" and not "what you ride".  and for every "squidly rider" or whatever you see on their harley, i can guarantee you that there's just as many on their sportbikes. around here, nobody seems to wear any gear(cruiser or sportbike). or if they do, it's usually on the back of their bike. you can be a moronic rider on any bike. the type of bike you own doesn't make you more or less of a rider.

[tt_four]

I work at a motorcycle dealer, thismorning I brought up this debate while a customer was at the counter. Funny thing is... He was just ticketed last Thursday by the PA State Police for not putting both feet down when stopped 

sounds like a standard car driver response, unless you've got 4 points of contact on the ground you can't be taken seriously. Obviously the cop doesn't put both of his feet on the floor of his car when he stops at a stop sign.

My 4 mile commute between work and home can be done on my bicycle without putting a foot down the entire way. I can't sit on that thing without moving all day without taking a foot off the pedals. It's pretty hard to get pulled over on a bicycle though.

[newbie]

I didnt read through this thing cause it got all about feet it seemed like. But keep in mind it seems most of you complain about hd riders and then act like you better.....your complaining about them complaining? Bikes a bike....stero type is a stero type. How many punk kids do you see on sportbikes that cant ride? Percentage wise i bet pretty even with yuppies on a hd? So if im a yuppie and ride a gs im cool? WTF? And yes a 1200 sporty will eat a gs alive. They are pretty good handling and quick bikes. Sportys are faster than most big twins. I have a 77 xlch1000 thats probbaly hittin close to 1300cc and stock that sucker could eat any big twin and most sportbikes alive. Even in the twisties. She going into a rigid frame that wieghs 45 pounds so it should be a real flyer then. Remember the cafe xlcr's! (look it up XLCR) I will admit im not a fan of twin cams or evos. But ive worked on and had more than a few older hds and there is something to be said about the feel. I will admit ive been yelled at by sportbike riders on some of my choppers and ive been yelled at by hd riders on my gs, heck ive even gotten yelled at on my honda 750 chopper with 10 over forks and rabbit ears by guys on stock roadkings. A-holes a A-hole!