'GOD vs. SCIENCE' - good read

[annguyen1981]

Ok...  everyone...








QUIET!!!






Ok... now that I have everyone's attention.

I just wanna state that there's just WAAAY too much reading needed for this ONE thread. I refuse to read it all and make a small, simple comment.

[The Buddha]

I just wanna state that there's just WAAAY too much reading needed for this ONE thread. I refuse to read it all and make a small, simple comment.

Yea, but I dont let that stop me ... or even slow me down ... mu haha haha haha haha haha ....
Cool.
Buddha.

[Cal Price]

Yeah but, yeah but, no but....

Well it was good  to see it kept civilised and did not descend to the level these things sometimes do.


Oh - Yama - Its good to see how far and how well you have tracked your ancestors. I find your historical comments about Europe interesting. I find many such things fscinating, only yesterday Mags and I were in a small country church near here where King Henry IV was married, apparently having come from Spain (I think) she must have been such a looker that he could not wait to get her back to London and a state wedding! Like a lot of other country churches and hostelries around here it also contains a carved image of "The Green Man" which indicates the site was "Holy" before Christianity came along.

I have managed to trace my father's line back to 1661 (actually a cousin did it) just after the English civil war and plan to go to a place in Leicestershire soon to see the ancestoral village. Much as I enjoy and appreciate this stuff I am first in the queue when it comes to saying that we can't live in a museum as some people and places seem to make an industry out of it.

[annguyen1981]

Yeah but, yeah but, no but....

Well it was good  to see it kept civilised and did not descend to the level these things sometimes do.

Oh - Yama - Its good to see how far and how well you have tracked your ancestors. I find your historical comments about Europe interesting. I find many such things fscinating, only yesterday Mags and I were in a small country church near here where King Henry IV was married, apparently having come from Spain (I think) she must have been such a looker that he could not wait to get her back to London and a state wedding! Like a lot of other country churches and hostelries around here it also contains a carved image of "The Green Man" which indicates the site was "Holy" before Christianity came along.

I have managed to trace my father's line back to 1661 (actually a cousin did it) just after the English civil war and plan to go to a place in Leicestershire soon to see the ancestoral village. Much as I enjoy and appreciate this stuff I am first in the queue when it comes to saying that we can't live in a museum as some people and places seem to make an industry out of it.

I completely agree.  I didn't realize this thread would be a hot topic like it has on this forum, but it certainly stayed on topic (except for my post) and stayed civil.

I still, however, refuse to read it all.

[Toogoofy317]

any one care to answer my two questions? Ah yes right we don't questio  Darwin when even he at times doubted what he was writing
More later
Mary

[elementguy053]

any one care to answer my two questions? Ah yes right we don't questio  Darwin when even he at times doubted what he was writing
More later
Mary

Mary,
You only asked one question (unless you want me to tell you how to go about this, and what difference it would make if you were to kill yourself).
If I had to speculate, I would say it probably took longer for a group of amino acids and nucleic acids to form into early prokaryotes. I'm no biologist, but I will tell you that we as humans have created these amino acids in laboratory conditions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment). Unfortunately we have not successfully duplicated the billions of years that something like this had time to happen in.  It is hard to imagine infinite time and volume for an event to happen in. Of course, this is all assuming that the origin of life on earth is Abiogenesis. If you want to look outside the box, you can ponder the possibility of an alien origin of life. That gives you 14 billion (14x10^9) years for something to form, then arrive at Earth.

As for evolution, there is plenty of evidence of species changing through time. Comparatively these changes are very fast, and documented well beyond the Origin of Species. Exhibit A - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment . E. Coli populations evolved over time with greater overall fitness, and one population gained the ability to use citrate as a food source.  Your creationist friend will ask you "Where are the monkey people?!"  Biologists will tell you that every living thing you see around you is a transitional specie.  You may have seen a halt in recent human evolution. Contemporary evolution in humans has mostly died because natural selection has disappeared.  Today's boy with cancer would have died 100 years ago never getting the chance to reproduce.

In short, I would say that it was more simple for life to change once it existed.

Regarding how you should go about this:
Quit arguing against the people who are taking the facts that they observe and saying "This is the best conclusion we can reach. Sure it has holes, but we're working on it." Quit using a series of scrolls found in the desert, translated a million times, picked apart and put together, some parts kept, others omitted, then bored into your head from day 1 as the undeniable truth about the origin of the universe. At least we're TRYING! And to say that Darwin's theories are not to be questions is absolutely ludicrous and unscientific. The point of theories is to be disproven and rewritten. FYI, gravity is a theory. The reason that it remains a theory is because it fails to account for the patterns of motion in the universe. It happens to work extremely well on the small scale, but loses its grip as things get bigger. When new evidence becomes available, it will be edited to account for this.

Regarding the repercussions of your death:
Yes, there would be ripples from your untimely demise. In the grand scheme of it all, no, it wouldn't make a difference. A few people would be very sad, our forum would have one less person to brainstorm with. But eventually we will all die, and this site will eventually fade away, and no one will know the difference. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it's something you have to grasp. Looking into the sky and realizing you are a spec on a spec orbiting a spec orbiting with billions of other specs around another spec flying through an infinite void with billions and billions of other specs. You are nothing (in the context of the universe).
If it is a purpose that gives your life meaning, then I'm sad to say that, in the context of the universe, you have none other than to exist.

[Toogoofy317]

seriously if that is how u view life it is sad sad indeed! When I get home at 0330 I will counter your reasoning with scientific reasoning as well. It is quite arrogant to think because I may believe in intelligent design that I say the world is flat. I own darwins book and have read it matter of fact it sits next to my bible on my night stand. believe circa 1902 Like I said Darwin doubted his writings and he even said we need tons of more fossil evidence before confirming his theory and that is what it is A THEORY.  Like I said more when I get home.
Wonder what life would have been like if that shot that went through George Washingtons coat when in his 20s had killed him. Thats right nothing would have been a small ripple and all would be the same.

[elementguy053]

Please don't waste your time. My friends will attest that I was as much at least as much bible thumper as you only a couple of years ago and there is nothing in pseudo-science that I don't already know. I denied evolution (though never got into the young earth), and used the same twisted logic trying to convert my room mate that's been thrown back at me repeatedly ever since. I promise that there is much clarity on the other side.  I tried to spread these arguments. They just don't hold water. If you'd like an unabridged version of what I think you're going to throw at me, considerconsiderconsiderconsiderconsiderconsiderconsiderconsiderconsiderconsiderconsiderconsider
consider the following

CAUTION

AHEAD
http://assets.livingwaters.com/pdf/OriginofSpecies.pdf


And of course the man who was after a position in the clergy will be hesitant to write direct contradictions to what was drilled into his brain from day 1. Like i said, it's scary. That's why you've gotta sack up and forge ahead; for truth's sake!

[dohabee]

what I don't understand is how certain Christian groups think that if you don't believe what they believe then you are going to hell.

Christianity is barely in the majority world wide. Roughly about 30% of the earth's population are Christians, 20% are Islam, 15% are Hindu and 15% are non-religious.

Christianity may be the largest religion but it accounts for less than 1/3 of the population. There are plenty of children born in other countries that have never and will never learn about Christianity.

Are these people damned simply because they were born on the wrong continent?

What makes more sense to me is that humans have a difficult time coping with death and as a result have created religion to put their minds at ease about the unknown.

It cant be coincidence that religions are separated by geographical features.

Most people need to believe in something and because various populations and ethnicities developed apart from each other their religions are also different.

I mean no offense to those of you that are religious, this is simply my opinion.

[Cal Price]

dohabee's point about numbers and geography is what started me thinking the way I do along with

"What about the soul of the Inca farmer (or English Druid,  Burmeese sailor, Roman soldier) born and died long before Christianity" ?

"If god is really great, all knowning and omnimpotent why does he need insignificant little me to believe, praise and worship him" ?

I think people needed to believe so they believed and in different places they found different paths. Believer may say different paths to god, non-believer may say different paths to belief, it's a fine line.

[redhenracing2]

Just to lighten the mood . . . .  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDtYI4TzsUY

And yes, I am 100% atheist, and mean no offense to anyone who believes different than I.

[The Buddha]

dohabee's point about numbers and geography is what started me thinking the way I do along with

"What about the soul of the Inca farmer (or English Druid,  Burmeese sailor, Roman soldier) born and died long before Christianity" ?

"If god is really great, all knowning and omnimpotent why does he need insignificant little me to believe, praise and worship him" ?

I think people needed to believe so they believed and in different places they found different paths. Believer may say different paths to god, non-believer may say different paths to belief, it's a fine line.

I dont believe god cares who is a believer or not a believer.
Good - bad is what he cares about. Theoretically ...
However hinduism thinks all good is rewarded and all evil is punished. Its not a sum total, and if its positive you're in heaven. Its like you're in after you've paid for all the bad. Its a very evil and calculating god we have, and yama (not yamahonsuzikawi ... but Lord Yama) will claim you first. How fast you get to heaven depends on how much you have to work yourself out of. BTW animals are counted just like humans, kill a mouse or kill a man and you get the same amount of negative tacked on to your tab. Kill a bacteria that isn't harming you and you're in the hole baby.
Cool.
Buddha.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Interesting. im a god   im kidding btw. at least we HAVE kept this civil even where we disagreed. it has not resorted to name callign or had this thread been tarded. normally religion threads go to name callign QUICKLY usually by the non believers. im putting all bias aside here. seen very few exceptions otherwise. this thread has gone exceedingly well