What's the best way to learn how to weld?

[noiseguy]

I'll have to look at by breaker box sometime to see. My house was built in 1880, so I have no idea when the electric was updated, but the guy who put in the dryer outlet said I've got plenty of circuits to spare.

I'm never going to be doing anything as heavy duty as a car/truck frame. At this point, the biggest projects I'd care to do is making new subframes for bike projects. I'd love to be able to weld aluminum for the sake of newer frames, but as long as the frame has tabs for a subframe to bolt on, I'm fine with making a subframe out of steel. Other than that it would be cool to be able to make up my own headlight mounts and exhaust brackets, things like that, as well as random household projects, like if a patio chair would crack, or maybe I'd go crazy and make a storm door or something like that, but otherwise I think I'd get by with a 110v.

For tabs, subframes, exhausts, household and the like, 110V is perfect. It's an incredibly handy tool to have around, and it's not really replaceable by anything else in the toolbox. For example, PO on my bike had sawn off the can on the bike to mount slip-on, but never bought the slip-on. He did keep the old can though. Re-welding this on was pretty easy, and took about 30 minutes tops including fixturing, spot welding,  and final welding. I'm not sure how much I'd have spent having someone do this, and get it right, as it needed to be welded together on the bike to do it right.

[tt_four]

Yeah, even if you can pay someone else to do it, I usually hate trying to explain to other people the random projects I'm trying to do. If I had a welder I'd definitely see about making my exhaust a high mount as I think it would go well with the tail I have on the bike, but something like that is too many bends and details for me to want to explain that to someone else. I'd also have to get the pipes bent, but after I found out there's a harbor freight 20 minutes away, I think this thing could make it possible. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=32888

Last time I was over my wife's friends house for one of the moped gatherings she goes to, I saw a welder on the other side of their basement when they were showing me something. I'll probably see if they can show me a thing or two sometime.

Edit: I was bored and browsing last night at info on exhausts. I think I may take some of my christmas money and see what Harbor Freight has on sale. They've got this one for $100 now.... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=98871
I'll get a better one someday, but being in the same situation you are, I'd just like something to learn on.

[gsfighter100]

Hey I just read this thread as I too am learning how to weld. I'm not doing too bad for teaching myself. But i have been using that harbor freight welder and have found it to be an effective welder. I mean for the money I don't think you can beat it. I have welded all sorts of things like tabs for my rearsets and tabs for my subframe some shameless pics to folllow. It doesn't have a whole lot of adjustment  but it is very easy to use. I used about a half spool of wire making test welds then welded my tank stay bracket on.

[tt_four]

Hey, looks like you're doing pretty good. What welder did you get from Harbor Freight? Is it the same one I posted a link for? I think I'll probably see what I can pick up after christmas there on sale somewhere around the $100 range, unless they have anything cheaper. I'll see though, it'll be a busy winter if I'm going to try to learn how to paint things with a real paint gun as well, although the painting will probably have to wait until spring, as that's clearly not an inside activity with the poor basement ventilation I get.

How do you like that stand as well? I've been thinking about picking one of those up. My dad has a similar one for his Harley, although his exhaust doesn't run under the bike like the gs does, but I think if you just stuck some boards across it you could pick it up with the frame and not hit the exhaust. That store is going to kill me now that I found out it's so close. They had tire bead breakers for $20. I convinced myself I could probably just do it with a C-clamp, but if not I'll definitely go get one!

[gsfighter100]

yes sir the same welder you posted pics of. the stand works good i can pick the bike up wheel it around the shop some boards would probably be necessary. And yes Harbor freight will bankrupt you. I have more money invested in tools from there than I have in my entire project bike. But I'm a mechanic and plan on deducting most of them from my taxes. the bead breaker would be nice they also have a stand that you can buy to true and balance your wheels. The bead breaker is too small for the tires I'm changing now 180/190

[DoD#i]

Two comments - remember that "deducting from taxes" just means a discount equivalent to your tax rate -  15% if you make less than $33K, 25% if less than $83K, and no sympathy or advice from me if you make more than $83K. Plus whatever your state tax is, if any. Far too many people think "tax deductible" means "free" - it doesn't. Numbers change if you are married, etc. - go look it up.

Second one - I don't always live by it, but I always consider it before violating it (and if you describe yourself as a mechanic to the extent that you deduct things, you should think long and hard about it.)

When buying tools: Buy the best - only cry once.

The pain in the wallet fades. The pain of a tool that doesn't quite work stays fresh. If used professionally, it can cost you money. Harbor Freight rarely (if ever) is the supplier of choice for the best tools. By the time you break three, have made four trips to replace them, and finally decide to get the good one, you've wasted a lot more time and money than if you started with the good one. There are times when "good enough" is good enough - and there are times when "tool-shaped objects from China" are about as useful as that name should imply.

[BaltimoreGS]

Two comments - remember that "deducting from taxes" just means a discount equivalent to your tax rate -  15% if you make less than $33K, 25% if less than $83K, and no sympathy or advice from me if you make more than $83K. Plus whatever your state tax is, if any. Far too many people think "tax deductible" means "free" - it doesn't. Numbers change if you are married, etc. - go look it up.

Second one - I don't always live by it, but I always consider it before violating it (and if you describe yourself as a mechanic to the extent that you deduct things, you should think long and hard about it.)

When buying tools: Buy the best - only cry once.

The pain in the wallet fades. The pain of a tool that doesn't quite work stays fresh. If used professionally, it can cost you money. Harbor Freight rarely (if ever) is the supplier of choice for the best tools. By the time you break three, have made four trips to replace them, and finally decide to get the good one, you've wasted a lot more time and money than if you started with the good one. There are times when "good enough" is good enough - and there are times when "tool-shaped objects from China" are about as useful as that name should imply.

Sorry to threadjack but I'd like to add my 2 cents to this one.  I've tinkered since I was a kid and worked as a technician (fancy word for mechanic) for over 5 years.  I have owned cheap and expensive tools.  Here's what I have learned along the way:

DoD#i is correct if you are talking about a tool you will use often.  One good tool is better than repeatedly buying a cheap tool.  A good tool will also do the job better.  It will be easier to use and less likely to damage what you are working on.  I don't know if a welder falls into this category, at least not in the context of this conversation.  A relatively inexpensive welder might be a good starting point for a novice.  I'm not saying buy the cheapest thing you can find, research the spec.s and buy the best you can on your budget.  But unless your goal is to build custom frames I don't think you need to go all out on your first purchase.  You may find welding isn't your thing.  I have access to welding equipment and welders so I never felt the need to buy my own.  And quite frankly, I'd rather let someone that knows what they are doing take care of the weld for me   

Now to digress further from the original topics, here is some other advice I give when people ask me about tools...

I see 3 grades of tools: cheap, home owner quality and professional quality.  All 3 have their uses.  My traveling tool kit is made up of cheap and home owner quality tools.  It is not something I use on a regular basis but it has all the tools I would need in most scenarios.  And while I would be pissed if it was lost/stolen I wouldn't be out a ton of money.  Some of Harbor Freight's stuff are decent cheap tools.  And some of the stuff at Advance Auto, Autozone, Home Depot... are decent cheap tools.  Sears Craftsman "Evolve" tools are also decent cheap tools.  Most of the Craftsman stuff I consider to be home owner grade.  The combination wrenches are short (less leverage).  In fact I prefer the Evolve wrenches due to their length.  The Craftsman ratchets are rough and have a relatively large swing arc but they are durable and get the job done.  Sears now has a line of polished tools that are a step above their regular stuff.  Most of those tools would fall into the professional category.

If you have the money, nothing beats "pro" grade tools.  In most cases Snap On is the top of the line.  In my experience, Snap On makes the best wrenches.  They are strong, provide excellent leverage, and are the least likely to round off fasteners.  One place Snap On is not #1 is ratchets.  Matco makes the best ratchets.  Their fine tooth gear heads are smooth, strong and only require a 4 degree swing arc (great in tight places).  They have a superior locking flex head design too.  One pro grade brand I really dislike is Mac.  I have never bought a Mac tool that has lasted.  Mac sockets break often and there ratchets are inferior to Matco and Snap On.  Also their wrenches don't "feel" very good (ergonomics?).  And the greatest invention to come along in my time as a mechanic are Gear Wrenches.  One of those "why didn't I think of it" ideas.  The original GearWrench brand is still the best.  I also have some locking flex head gear wrenches made by SK that come in very handy sometimes.

And before you run out and buy the best, here is some great advice my old boss/mentor gave me when I was starting out.  First of all, buy the cheapest toolbox you can.  All it does it hold tools.  Instead of buying a $5,000 Snap On box, buy a $1,000 Harbor Freight box and fill it with $4,000 worth of Snap On tools.  Secondly, unless you borrow a tool 2 or 3 times you don't really need to buy it.  And thirdly, only buy tools for what you work on.  If you don't have a '72 Monte Carlo in your driveway you probably don't need SAE tools.  Lots of the pre-packaged tool kits have metric and SAE tools.  If you are only working on your GS (or any car produced in the last 20 or so years) you only need metric tools.  And even within them there are only certain sizes you will use on a regular basis.  One thing I did when I was starting out was buy mid-grade sockets (Sunex brand) and as they were broken/lost I replaced them with a Snap On.  Those Sunex sockets proved to be pretty decent and I still have most of them in service   

Well I'm running out of steam and need to sleep, that's my rant for now...

-Jessie

[tt_four]

I definitely gauge what quality of tools I buy based on what it is. I would never go to harbor freight for my normal tools like wrenches and screwdrivers, but I'm perfectly fine with homedepot/sears quality with that kind of stuff. I am however happy to buy more specialized tools that I may only use 5 times in my life. A lot of the bicycle specific tools I have high quality professional grade stuff because I used to use those constantly. The only SAE tools I own is a spare set of box wrenches just because I may use one on occasion, but otherwise I have no desire to own one. I get angry just looking at SAE tools.

As far as something like a welder, considering I'm going to spend at least $100, it would be nice to just spend a little more and get something I'd want to keep for a while, but considering there are so many different types of welders, and I don't know anything about any of them, especially the volts/amps and everything else. I'd rather spend $100 knowing I'm going to replace it, instead of spending $250-500 and know there's a chance I'm going to want to replace it eventually anyway because I didn't buy the right one. If I brake it doing something stupid you're not supposed to do with a welder, that's just a good excuse to buy a better one, and if I don't break it I can make someone's day buy giving it to them after I buy a new one.

I also saw that wheel balancing stand, but for $60 I can just make one out of some 2x4s. I'm also curious if that'll just fit in my Park bicycle wheel stand, but I won't know until I pull one of the wheels off again.

[Scorpio65]

Teach yourself, its really not that hard. I learned by doing and have been doing it now for over 15 years.. I have a few welders and they all have different jobs. First i have a 110 volt Lincoln Mig welder good for up to 3/16 inch, but you can do 1/4 inch with it if you take your time. I use it for all my auto stuff, and light welding. Next i have a Miller 220 volt stick welder that i use for all my heavy welding. Its harder to learn, but once you do its a great welder. And last I have my Hobart Welder/Generator. Again for bigger jobs that I need to be mobil for. This one is great because i can run my plasma cutter, my hand grinders, chop saws and even my mig welder.
As with any tools (or motorcycle gear) buy the best you can afford and up grade when you can.
Bill.

[pave_spectre]

I don't know if the have this sort of thing over there, but I did an Adult Ed night class in welding, at a local hight school. Went for 8 weeks, and covered stick and mig welding, plus we got to play around a bit with oxy, and plasma cutting. Was a good opportunity to learn hands on and get some tips from someone experienced.

[tt_four]

Where'd you find out about that class? Was the highschool the one doing it, or was it a community college/welding group that just rented out the class space and tools? I'd like something like that, but I don't even know where you'd find out about it. I tried browsing the community college website, but I couldn't find anything useful.

[pave_spectre]

The one i did I heard about by word of mouth, but info about it was on the schools website. It was done by the school, the guy running the class was their head workshop teacher.

Like I said, I don't know if any schools do that sort of thing over there, but it might be worth getting in contact with somewhere and asking if they do, or if they know anywhere that does.

[yamahonkawazuki]

well said all. i taught myself when welding a gsxr 1k can on my 97 gs i had

[tt_four]

well said all. i taught myself when welding a gsxr 1k can on my 97 gs i had

Looks good, aside from wanting to mess with my subframe, I definitely plan to change up my exhaust as well. If I really feel like getting into it with finding some more header pipe and getting it bent I'll end up with the highmount, otherwise I'm just going to angle it up more so it sits more like yours does. What kind of welder to you use for yours? Was it a nicer one, or did you just pick up a cheaper welder to learn like we've been discussing?

[gsfighter100]

Yes I am a mechanic I know what deducting things from my taxes means and no I don't work with harbor freight tools. I will however use them at the house. I'm not stupid sir.