Front Brake

[conoral11]

Hi there,

A while back whilst I was wrenching on my GS getting it ready for its MOT and other road worthiness tests, I replaced all the pads and fluids in my brakes. I had to rebuild the rear caliper becuase it had seized up. That went all fine and well.

The Problem i'm having is my front brake doesn't feel right. It stops me alright, just feels lacking.

I've got my lever set to the furthest away from the bar as possible, but under harsh braking I can quite easily get the lever to the bar, which worries me.

I've bleed, and rebleed the brakes to death so I know its not that. (Replaced the brake lines on a different bike so know the process well).
The front brake has SS Braided lines. The only thing I can think of is the fact the master cylinder rubber looks a bit shredded. It's not leaking any where just looks pretty tacky.

Any suggestions here?

Regards

Conoral11

[Trwhouse]

Hi there,

I had a similar situation a few years ago with my brakes when I replaced the stock rubber hoses with stainless steel lines. Couldn't get all the air out no matter what I tried.

Here's how I fixed it:

(You should have done a search of the site, man, for brake bleeding!)

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=8306.0

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=47755.0

Good luck!

[ineedanap]

If you're positive you've bled the brakes, obviously all that is left is the master and caliper.  

Master - It might be easier to just pick up a nearly new one off of ebay and try just for the sake of trying it.  We're lucky that the GS has been around for 20 years with basically no changes.  Lots of nearly new cheap parts!  I ended up getting an 08 master on Ebay for $20 as a replacement for my 90 master.  They did change slightly thru the years from a 13mm to a 1/2 bore, but since they are so close in bore size, they're interchangable.  Might be worth a shot.  

Caliper - What year do you have?  96+ has a better caliper design and is considered an upgrade.  Rebuild kits either style are $24 from suzuki and include pistons.  Why not rebuild it for the sake of rebuilding it, or upgrade to the new style if you haven't already.  It's a good idea to change the dust seals with each pad swap anyway, so what's a few more steps.   You can find a cheap 08 caliper as well, and save all the hassle.  

I trashed 2 calipers, 4 sets of pads, 1 master and 2 rotors at the track last year.  GS brakes suck.   I just kept buying 08 stuff!  

[ineedanap]

Here's how I fixed it:

(You should have done a search of the site, man, for brake bleeding!)

Maybe he did.  He said he bled the brakes.

[sledge]

Make sure all the copper crush washers are servicable and the unions are tight, then bleed em again 2 or 3 times, only this time do it with the engine running, the vibes will help to dislodge the air-bubbles that are still trapped in the line.....yeah...I didnt believe it either until I tried it 

If that doesnt sort it out its time for one of these.....

http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/Suzuki/GS_500_ER_ES/94-95/picture/Rebuild_Kit_Brake_Mastercylinder_-_Front/

.....but I doubt it.

BTW....if you do go down this road that circlip is almost impossible to remove without a proper pair of circlip-pliers

[conoral11]

Thanks for all the replies, and so quick!

Yeah i've looked at those links whillst bleeding the brakes in the first place. Worked perfectly on my dads bike whilst I upgraded his lines Can really feel the difference from the stock rubbers.

Its a 95 bike (although registered in 96) so has the old style caliper.

The brake lever was damaged when I bought the bike, so I bought an 95 lever, only to find out that the lever had already been replaced by a later model. I ended up buying a whole new 95 assembly (mount and lever).

I'll look at getting a another M/C, and see whats avaliable for the caliper.
I take it I will be able to just swap the caliper between pre 96 and post 96? No fork upgrade required?

Sledge:

Thanks for the tip, haven't tried bleeding with the engine running, just hitting the handel bars and all joints with a rubber mallet. I'll give it a try when I get the chance!
Many thanks

Conoral11

[ineedanap]

I take it I will be able to just swap the caliper between pre 96 and post 96? No fork upgrade required?

Yes, unbolt the old one, bolt the new one in.  No mods necessary at all.  Make sure you get the banjo bolt with it.  The pre and post 96 are different lengths and you can't use the old style banjo with the new style caliper.  

[lamoun]

Have you bled the M/C side of the system?

The procedure is the same but now you unscrew/screw the master cylinder's banjo bolt.

[Trwhouse]

Here's how I fixed it:

(You should have done a search of the site, man, for brake bleeding!)

Maybe he did.  He said he bled the brakes.

Hi again,

I know he said that he bled the brakes.
What can happen, though, is that he may not be getting all the air out no matter what he does.
That's where a vacuum bleeder takes the guesswork out of the equation.
It just seems to be a bit early to all of a sudden be suggesting he swap out calipers and master cylinders when the problems didn't exist before he made some brake changes on his bike.
I'd still try a vacuum bleeder.
He may THINK that he got all the air out, but I'd bet that's still the problem.
Good luck.

[ineedanap]

EDIT, removed some stuff that really had nothing to do with fixing anything, and was more of an attack.  Sorry Guys.