Planning on my Masters, what to do....Help!!!

[TheGoodGuy]

So I currently work for the State of California as a Scientist. I have a bachelors of Arts in Environmental Studies with minors in Biology, Geography & an emphasis in Geology

I've got applications to California State Univ Northridge (CSUN) and Loyola Marymount Univ (LMU) for masters.

At CSUN I can pursue a MS in Geology, At LMU i can get a MSE in Civil Engineering with Emphasis in Environmental Engineering.

Now the traditional sense an Engineering degree will take me a LOT farther than a MS in Geology. However to get the MSE I have to take the EIT exam without which I will have an MS in Environmental Sciences (the course work is 90% same, execpt for 2 more additional classes that I got to take).

PRO's for CSUN:

Closer for School (inbetween work and home)
Less stress, graduate 6 months earlier
State School, hence cheaper.

CONS for CSUN:

Geology degree is kinda useless outside of State work. Not much pay for geologists.
Got to take GRE

PRO's for LMU

Masters in Civil Engineering Degree
May not have to take GRE

CON's for LMU:

Campus is near LAX, 30 mile commute each way for school every day
Costs 4x what CSUN will cost to graduate. LMU = private school.
EIT required if I want my MS in Civil.


Question. Will I be killed in the work force for having a BA in Environmental Studies and a Masters in Civil, wouldnt employers want a BS in Civil over a Masters?

Manjul

[NF11624]

The GRE is not that bad.  I took it last month.  The verbal is the only thing that is difficult.    Go with what you think is a better career.  Only advice I have.

[The Buddha]

Buddha is civil engineer, Werase is enviro engineer both BS ... literally and figuratively.

I dunno I think enviro should be great to find good meaningful jobs in, civil could be but then again most of my classmates from back in IIT ended up as software engineers, or 2-3 guys ended up in structural engineering masters and then working in it and geo tech engineers after masters in geo tech ...

Cant you switch to the subject you want after taking the college you want - cos that's what some of em did.

I duuno I think building codes and design software like CAD etc has made the enmasse army of civil engineers needed in the previous generations largely redundant. Enviro may be the way to go.

Cool.
Buddha.

[TheGoodGuy]

Well the Civil degree is an environmental emphasis degree, basically its an masters in environmental engineering.

Geology is a ole standby. I have a visit to the school tomorrow we shall see what they say.

[vtlion]

The GRE is not that bad.  I took it last month.  The verbal is the only thing that is difficult.    Go with what you think is a better career.  Only advice I have.

I agree.  Strike the GRE items from your list.  If it is still the same test that I took back in 2000, it isn't much more complicated than the SAT.  It is more of a money grab by the testing centers that provide it than anything if you asked me, a hoop that is very easily jumped through by a capable student.

[noiseguy]

I wouldn't base your decision on what tests you need to take. The money / effort to take a test is minimal.

I have similar thoughts on up-front cost and travel. Any chance of getting your employer to pick up some / all of the cost of tuition?

Primary considerations should be

1) How much can you make?
2) How much demand will there be for this job
3) Will I like doing it enough to stick with it long enough to justify the investment?

[DoD#i]

Probably the most relevant question is what you actually want to do, and how each of these applies to that goal. Given what we hear about the California state budget over here on the East coast, I'd be leery as heck of getting in too deeply on something that was based on continued state employment to fund it, and I'd be having a good look at options for employment elsewhere, though pretty much any job you have is worth 100 promising job opportunities in this market.

Depending on how much you want to stay put, geology does have other uses. The oil companies still hire geologists, and I found a few opportunities in hydrogeological (outside of government) when looking for things my niece could do before she decided to go on to a masters, since she had expressed a disinclination to have anything to do with oil.

If you are going into debt, 4x the cost matters quite a bit.

The EIT is nothing to be scared of. Without it, you are not ever going to be a professional engineer, and that is where the money is at in "being an engineer". With it, you can, if you get appropriate experience and pass the PE exam later, actually be "an engineer" in the official and keep your liability insurance paid up sense. I'm actually a bit sore at the school I went to because they basically did not raise this on your radar unless you were in electrical, civl , mechanical or chemical - CS engineers were left right out of the loop, because they didn't feel we needed to be in the loop or ever become "professional engineers." The EIT is more or less "did you actually learn all the stuff you were supposed to learn in school" or a big honking final exam. If that scares you away, you probably shouldn't be pursuing an engineering degree in the first place.

Nobody gives a rats posterior what you did undergrad once you do something else in grad school, for the most part. Nobody gives a rats posterior what you did in school once you've held a job for a few years, either, though it may be used as a winnowing technique by the people who's job it is to make sure that the people actually hiring can't talk to anyone worth hiring.

And yes, the GRE is basically a scam to divert money to a "non-profit" that must have the highest pay of any non-profit to not turn a profit, given the way they gouge money out of students for testing. My wife's comment: "So, 4 years of college and the questions are almost exactly the same as the SAT I took to get into college. That's stupid."

[noiseguy]

My undergrad required me to take the EIT to graduate. That's the way it should be done.

That said, to my knowledge only civil and some types of mechanical (HVAC, building structure) need PE degrees to do their jobs. You get the neat stamp to put on drawings, and then get to fret on whether anyone will sue you for the design over your lifetime. As an automotive engineer, this was a non-issue. Have you seen reqs for CS engineers with PEs?

[The Buddha]

Computer science engineers are required to be un intelligible, have really poor people skills, marginal hygiene, and forget ever talking to chicks ...

So that way GoodGuy is not qualified ... he's already had a girl friend or 10 ... and I will definetly rate his people skills and hygiene as far above average.

Buddha on the other hand was born to be a CS engineer. Shower ... Jan 1 check, girl ... what girl ... people skills and unintelligible yea its covered ...

Cool.
Buddha.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Computer science engineers are required to be un intelligible, have really poor people skills, marginal hygiene, and forget ever talking to chicks ...

So that way GoodGuy is not qualified ... he's already had a girl friend or 10 ... and I will definetly rate his people skills and hygiene as far above average.

Buddha on the other hand was born to be a CS engineer. Shower ... Jan 1 check, girl ... what girl ... people skills and unintelligible yea its covered ...

Cool.
Buddha.

Youd have itPWNED if there was a category for being a magnet for bike parts and cheap cars an stuff like that

[The Buddha]

Why you little ...

Lebaron runs great, and friday it broke 60 and I ran it top down ... radio blaring NPR ... several chicks turned and looked ... but then they saw me and they started looked far behind me ...

Damn chicks waiting for the bus got some ego and standards ... yikes ... I thought those were the easy ones.

Cool.
Buddha.

[TheGoodGuy]

Well i went by the school and its a beautiful campus. Now to see if I can get the loans and stuff

[The Buddha]

Try to not get into debt too much. Jobs have been pushed overseas and college costs keep going up up up. In the 90's I remember lot of my friends doing design in the US on engineering projects in other countries ... like bridges in Taiwan, etc etc, nowadays its the other way round. We're designing US stuff in other countries.
Cool.
Buddha.

[bill14224]

I agree with Noiseguy.  Forget about classes and commutes and go where your passion is.  How many times are you planning to live?  If you don't have much passion for either, you've chosen the wrong course of study.

My son just went through that.  He was going to enroll in a Culinary Arts school but got a degree in Criminal Justice instead.  Once he graduated he decided to work for a bank, go figure.  In his case, all he seems to really love is football, but he's only 5 foot 6.  He should have taken sports management, medicine, gone into coaching, or something along those lines.  I'm just staying out of his way and gritting my teeth, hoping he finds his way.

I would advise you to reach as high as you can in something you love to do and care about, and don't be afraid of reaching too high.  You'll be amazed when you're my age how many clowns are running things.  Best of luck in everything you do.

[The Buddha]

TGG - you gotta show me how to get myself a gubbamint job. I needs gubbamint $, bad, cos I figured out, I am pretty stuck in this grunt software support stuff. Might as well make it to a place that is well ... stable.
Cool.
Buddha.

[TheGoodGuy]

getting a govt job first requires the following:

Take an exam, get placed on a rank list.
Then apply for jobs you qualify for.

---

you can do this for state, county, city and local govt. Its also applicable for the federal govt jobs. Pay sucks (in some cases/most cases) but stability is better than private industry

http://www.usajobs.gov/ --> fed jobs

http://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/article/government-jobs-how-to-get-them/344044/

Look up your local city / county / state job websites for application process.

In the state of CA, you pass the exam (some are online) and then you get on a list. Either you get invited to post your resume with a form (STD 678) or you can apply directly. Once you got that you got an interview or two. The total process is 4-6 months at minimum.

[bill14224]

Sheesh, I live in NY and I doubt California is much different in this regard.  An engineer in NY can expect to make 60-100 grand in the private sector.  The government pays about the same.  I'm half an electrical engineer and I've always worked in the private sector.  The private sector has been STARVING for engineers for years.  Why be part of the problem?  We already have too many government workers, but that's just my opinion.  We could all work for the government and have a socialist Utopia.  Yeah, right.  Again, best of luck to you.

[The Buddha]

Gubbamint ... well I am sick of not getting promoted and worse yet, managers are axed a lot more than software engineers. Oddly its a skill that is in abundance. Everyone has people skills. Not everyone can look though 1000's of lines of code, dust off the mothballs and go, yea I'll run it tommorow.
Sadly, that means I dont get to ever turn my brain off, or make more $ or be stable. I am turning into a hired gun ... mainly working to keep dead applications working till someone decides they are dead. In 07 I turned a dead app into one that could run with the still being coded new BS they had comming along, and I still got laid off. I told them, you had to let me go when I was just getting good at keeping this going ... if you had sent me packing a year ago, I'd ahve been so happy ... now I am disappointed.

Cool.
Buddha.

[bill14224]

Gubbamint ... well I am sick of not getting promoted and worse yet, managers are axed a lot more than software engineers. Oddly its a skill that is in abundance. Everyone has people skills. Not everyone can look though 1000's of lines of code, dust off the mothballs and go, yea I'll run it tommorow.
Sadly, that means I dont get to ever turn my brain off, or make more $ or be stable. I am turning into a hired gun ... mainly working to keep dead applications working till someone decides they are dead. In 07 I turned a dead app into one that could run with the still being coded new BS they had comming along, and I still got laid off. I told them, you had to let me go when I was just getting good at keeping this going ... if you had sent me packing a year ago, I'd ahve been so happy ... now I am disappointed.

Cool.
Buddha.

Buddha, I'm not a programmer but I know EXACTLY how you feel.  I'm not allowed to shut my brain off either.  Managers get to do that, especially when there's more than 3 of them in a room.  Someone's gotta be able to get it done!  We make utterly gutless and/or brainless managers look good for 1/3 the pay.  No justice in this world and there never will be, no matter what the "progressives" think.  The progressives are worse than our managers!

My remarks were more for electrical engineering.  That corner of the workforce is badly lacking and is still in dire need.