Sale this weekend, what do you welders think??

[tt_four]

So I know we've been over this stupid topic a number of times, and you get a broad range of answers from "I have that welder and it's great" to "man it's junk, if you're gonna buy a welder go by a 500w lincoln TIG wilder to learn on, it's only $2000.....". I've discussed them a bit over on customfighters.com, but half of those guys doing that stuff to their bikes are professional mechanics/machinists, so that's all common sense to them. I'm looking to get my first welder. I haven't welded since 9th grade shop class. I'm looking to do some random projects around the house, be able to put some shelves or whatever together, weld some brackets onto the GS or some of my wife's moped stuff, maybe make a storm door someday, and the most heavy duty/complicated thing I'll probably try to weld someday, is a subframe, whether it's a bolt on subframe for another bike, or redoing my GS subrfame for another tail swap. I'm fine with just doing steel even though aluminum would be nice. Ooh, I'd love to be able to redo my exhaust midpipe to angle it up, or just make it a highmount.

Anyway, I just got an email that said this guy is on sale this weekend for $170, normally $250. What do you guys think....
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=94164

It even says it does aluminum. If it actually does I'm sure it doesn't do it well, so I'm not buying it for that, and if I find out someday I actually can weld aluminum, then awesome, but in the mean time I'm just gonna stick to steel. What do you think? For someone who doesn't have a clue what they're doing, could I get this and manage to put some stuff together on the flux core, and eventually set it up for mig, or will someone who even has no experience welding like myself pull it out and just say "this is junk!" someday if I try to weld something together?? Keep in mind it doesn't have to be a long term welder, if in 3-5 years I've outgrown it no big deal. I'll give it to my dad to play with and maybe then I'll lay down $500 for something better. I just hate the idea of spending good money on a nice welder before I even know what I'm welding. I'm not trying to be the kid that just got his motorcycle permit 3 days ago and he's already putting a downpayment on a 2010 gsxr750. Just give me the 15 year old gs500 w/20k miles and I'm good to go! Let me know what you guys think!

[makenzie71]

That's got a bit too many features for a strict learn-on machine.  This one is only $99 when it's on sale:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94056

Plus, you can get a 20% off coupon from any issue of motorcyclist magazine or online.  The cheap little wire system is much more suited to a beginner.  It has limited capabilities, but setup is a no-brainer and use is as easy as it gets.

[tt_four]

hmm..... ok, so I guess to clarify, when I say I'm looking for one to learn on, I'd like one to learn on and be able to continue using for at least a year or two. I remember seeing plenty of that one you just posted for $90-100 recently, but I saw it and figured it would be a little less than worth it once I got the hang of it. When you say the one would be good as a strict learning welder, do you think it would be enough to amuse me after I learned on it, and had actually welded a few things together??

The other thing I'm curious about, I know the one I posted has the set up for gas and more options with the potential to be confusing, but it says that it comes set up with the wire to start, so when I pulled it out of the box, wouldn't it pretty much be just like the $99 one? and then someday down the line when I was ready I could start with the gas, but I wouldn't have to mess with that while I was learning.

I know I'm gonna be difficult by first saying I wanted something to learn on that I'll replace later on if I need something better, but I just don't want to get something SO simple that that time frame all happens within a couple weeks. I'd like to at least be satisfied with it for a year or two. I'm just not looking for something that will necessarily last me a decade of serious use.

Still think the $180 is too much, or you think the $99 one is still a better option?

[makenzie71]

hmm..... ok, so I guess to clarify, when I say I'm looking for one to learn on, I'd like one to learn on and be able to continue using for at least a year or two. I remember seeing plenty of that one you just posted for $90-100 recently, but I saw it and figured it would be a little less than worth it once I got the hang of it. When you say the one would be good as a strict learning welder, do you think it would be enough to amuse me after I learned on it, and had actually welded a few things together??

I still use mine frequently...it's actually the only welder I've used in several years.

The other thing I'm curious about, I know the one I posted has the set up for gas and more options with the potential to be confusing, but it says that it comes set up with the wire to start, so when I pulled it out of the box, wouldn't it pretty much be just like the $99 one? and then someday down the line when I was ready I could start with the gas, but I wouldn't have to mess with that while I was learning.

That one has more settings and more features...it's worth the price (on sale...not regular price), but you'll find yourself never really needing any of them.  Yeah it says it'll weld aluminum...but think about how many times in your life you've come across the need to weld aluminum.  In all of my welding, I've had to have a radiator modified to work in my car...outside of that, the only times I've needed to work aluminum (motorcycle frames, for example), there's no way I would have trusted a cheap HF welder to tackle the job.

Gas is a non-concern...it makes things a bit prettier but you're looking at an additional expense (a big one if you use the right gas, too), and you're adding a complication.  Flux core wire will penetrate and make just as pretty a weld with practice.

Lastly, as said above, the other machine has more bells and whistles...even if you think you might need/want them some day, you have to consider the build of the machine.  When you start adding things, the complication of manufacture goes up.  A good example is China.  Coat hangers are simple, and China makes a mean coat hanger.  Cars are complicated, and China makes a crappy car.  The welder is much the same way...China makes a good flux welder, but when you starting a bunch of extra shaZam! the overall quality starts going way down...only you don't have to worry about a wheel falling off and skittering into oncoming traffic.

I still believe the $99 welder is a better buy.

[tt_four]

Hmm.... now that I look at it, and I could be wrong because there's a lot of numbers in there, and I don't know much about electricity, the more expensive one of the two I posted needs a 220v outlet while the smaller will use a 110v outlet. So if I got the nicer one I'd have to get a new outlet put in, but the smaller one I could just plug into whatever. Does that sound right?

I'd probably have the same guy come over who put in the outlet for my dryer. He just charges $25 an hour, so I could probably get it put in for about $50 minus parts, but I've been wanting him to come back over anyway because I'd like to get a seperate circuit put in just for some outlet strips at my work benches.

Either way I think that's more than I'd care to do at the moment. So in that case, how much stuff can you really do with the cheaper welder of the two? Is it good enough to weld random brackets onto a subframe to bolt up tail fairings or an exhaust bracket, or mess with an exhaust midpipe, or are we talking just thin stuff like sheet metal?

Yeah you make the smaller one sound like a better option, which is dissapointing because that welder had been on sale for about the past month straight, and I passed it every time I was there because I was waiting for the nicer one. You're right about aluminum. The only time I can think of that I'd need to weld aluminum is someday if I bought a motorcycle that I wanted to make a new subframe for. Usually I can still make a steel one and bolt it up, but if it's in the case of the subframe already being welded to the frame, I'd probably cut it off, have some tabs welded to the aluminum frame, and then just bolt the steel one up to it anyway. The only bike that would fit in that catagory is the early 90's slingshot GSXRs which is what I'd want if I was ever making a streetfighter, but if that's the case I'll strip it down and have someone else weld them on. If I had enough practice would a wire welder be able to weld up part of a GS subframe? I don't need to mess with the top bar of my frame, but someday I'd like to lift up the bottom bar a little so it doesn't stick out from under the tail I put on it. The only other time I wouldn't mind doing aluminum is if I was making random brackets for something that would just bolt up, and look nicer/be lighter in aluminum, but I think they could all be substituted with steel and just painted.

[makenzie71]

All of the welding done on that bike...the exhaust, the subframe, and peg hangers and pegs, etc...was done with the $99 welder.

The little flux welder can't really penetrate deep so you're looking at being able to work 3/16" steel...1/4" if you get some skill and learn how to run a fat bead, but I wouldn't weld anything that thick that had a life supported above it.  Exhaust tubing and frame tubing it'll take all day long with no issues.

It does draw a lot of amps so you need to have it plugged directly into a wall outlet...or through a heavy duty extension cord.

[tt_four]

Cool, that's probably what I'll do then. I'll skip the one on sale this weekend and go to their big parking lot sale that's in the middle of march and see if they have any of the cheaper ones on sale. 1/4 inch is way thicker than I'll probably need to weld. The 99 deal just uses a regular outlet, right? I've got plenty of those, plug can handle the price of a normal thick extension cord. I had to buy one for my compressor and it wasn't too bad. When I have that guy come over to put in the circuit for my work bench outlets I'll have him toss in a 220v just for kicks, and then someday when I get a bigger welder I won't have to worry about dealing with the outlets.

that's a great looking bike by the way. Someday I'd like to make one of those out of something little like a cb125-175 for city cruising, probably with a less drastic angle on the bars.

[jhutch2115]

FYI-- If you needed a 220 outlet you have to rub a home run back to your pannel or you would ahve to feed out of your electric drier or electric stove. -- jim

[makenzie71]

FYI-- If you needed a 220 outlet you have to rub a home run back to your pannel or you would ahve to feed out of your electric drier or electric stove. -- jim

Not true at all.  You can actually run two extension chords from outlets sourced from opposite legs of the main and get a 220 feed.  It's fun to try and get it to work...and it works okay in a bind lol

[tt_four]

FYI-- If you needed a 220 outlet you have to rub a home run back to your pannel or you would ahve to feed out of your electric drier or electric stove. -- jim

I didn't understand any of that. Was it supposed to say that if I wanted to run a 220 welder through the dryer outlet that I'd actually have to run it through the dryer wiring?? I just planned on unplugging the dryer and plugging the welder into there. Either way Makenzie talked me into the cheaper welder which just goes into a normal outlet. This way when I get the wiring done for my workspace I'll have the guy install a 220 outlet there and it'll be ready for me when I need it.

[jhutch2115]

You could open up the recepticle and make pig tails off of the wires and install a second receptcle for the welder. You coulld not run the dryer and the welder at the same time because it would trip the breaker. Also you have to see how many amps the dryer is, some welders are 30 amps, and I don't know off hand what the typical  amps a dryeruse. WITH THIS SAID I WOULD NOT DO THIS WITH OUT CONSULTING A LIC. ELECTRICIAN !! I AM NOT A LIC. ELECTRICIAN, BUT I DID WORK AS AN APPRENTICE AND I HAVE ATECHNICIAN BACK GROUND! If you did piggy back off an exsisting 220 recepticle and didn't operate both devicesyou would't ham anyone, but this dosent mean this is the thing to do.; becasuse electricity dose kill people!!   Other wise an electrician is goin to have to run a home run ( a wire back to the pannel), which is a Buddha Loves You because this cable is heavy and cumbersom and has to be inside the wall or in conduit, or the electrician could run  stranded wires through conduit which is easier (like they did for my hot tub) Also you ahve to make sure that you have enough space in your pannel for a 220 breaker. With all this said i was talking in theory and plrease consult your electrician and MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS UP TO CODE! If not then the worse case senerio is that you and your loved ones  or the next people to live in that home could die in a fire, you have afire and your insurance dosen't cover your losses. Best case senerio, it works and no one gets hurt. The 110 is all you need becaus eyou are only doing some small welding for a short period of time unlike a welding or repair shop. I am going to purchase a 110 unit in the future. Also a 220 is cheaper to operate and has longer duty cycle of the 110 unitsand is why people get them over the 110 units. Good luck my frien and be carefull !  -- JIm

[tt_four]

Hey, yeah thanks for the info, I'll try just about anything on my house, with the exception of electrical. Someday I want to get a book about electrical work so i can at least learn the basics, but I really don't feel like burning down my house at all.

I just decided to get the 110v welder to I can plug it into a normal outlet. I actually just got the HF email this morning and there's a couple in it for $99, so I'll go grab one sometime this week....
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/common/displayCoupon.do?week=1010&campaign=RetailA&page=coupon3.html&single=true&cust=78129907234&keycode=0000
They also have their parking lot sale on the 13-15th this month, so I'll probably keep it in the box with the reciept and go see what else they might be selling at the parking lot sale incase I get a better deal on something.

I still want to get the 220 put in someday, but I'll wait until sometime this summer and have someone come in to put in the normal workbench outlets as well as the 220. No rush on it.