Customized 500 as a first bike?

[SlimKlim]

I'm shopping around for my first motorcycle, and I have a thing for 'fightered or cafe'd bikes. As a matter of fact, I'm planning on going to check out Homer's 1993 with the Katana FE and custom subframe.

Not surprisingly, my dad sh!t a brick because its not the 1985 BMW K1000RS that he imagined me cruising on alongside his Yamaha Star Luxo-liner, or some other variation of a tourer or sport tourer. He's been worrying me to death telling me I'm too tall for a sport bike, and I wont survive the 2 hour trip getting it to school and back without coming down with carpal tunnel syndrome, a slipped disc in my neck, infertility and syphilis. 

My uncle, also a life long biker, checked out the listing and immediately shot it down, worried that a bike with brakes (from a katana) that are bigger and not designed for the motorcycle they are on, will make the bike unpredictable and dangerous for a first time rider. He said I may unthinkingly jab at the brakes and cause the front end to lock up earlier than expected, and then die in an enormous fireball. At least he hasn't sharpened my cranium to a point over getting a sport bike.

However if you combine this with dad's concerns a sport bike with a custom front end will give me carpal tunnels, slipped discs, sterilize me and give me Stids, shortly before killing me.

My uncle suggested that I buy a mid-90's Honda Nighthawk 750. Which I was open to because 4 cylinders get me excited, but after reading about them there is zero aftermarket support and I can't find a decent forum about them. Which is no good because I'd install lower bars before I even rode the thing if I had a bike like that (because I want a goddamn sportbike!).

So now I'm lost really, I'm hopelessly attached to homer's bike but I don't know if my uncle has a valid point. I do know that I want a GS500E or a GSF400 or 600 as my first bike. And if my uncle's point is really valid and I might die in a fireball because I don't know what I'm doing, I should cancel my plans with Homer this weekend, and grovel at his e-feet for forgiveness.

Thoughts, directions, guidance?

[Paulcet]

I ride a customized 500 with Katana forks and dual discs.  I have to TRY to lift the rear wheel.  I have never locked up the front.  Any bike could lock the front wheel with bad tires, gravel, wet painted pavement....

Now, it wasn't my first bike, but don't think I had over 1000 miles on two other bikes before this one.  It won't kill you.  Now, as far as sterilization:  It's a 500.  Might not get you a date, therefore, you're as good as sterile!

(Looks like you are a good writer)

[Deros514]

Now, as far as sterilization:  It's a 500.  Might not get you a date, therefore, you're as good as sterile!

Lol, I thought the same thing when I decided to hold the 600RR and buy a GS instead. The GS is a "standard" though isn't it? The way I see it, a scuffed up sport bike isn't going to work any better than the GS anyway and it'll hurt your wallet more. On top of that for my skill level the GS is a really fun bike. I have a blast every time I ride the twisties and I'm sure I'm nowhere near its limits. It may not turn as many heads but I'll get there someday when I can confidently and skillfully ride a sport bike.

[SlimKlim]

I feel like, even though this is my first bike, I just need to approach it with a similar respect I give my non-traction control 1995 M3. With the car I don't give it a whole bunch of throttle with the wheel tight because I like facing the direction I'm supposed to. With this I'm just going to learn with it and keep rehearsing to myself "don't grab a handful of front brake."

I want a GS500. I want a sport bike. I want a cafe racer or 'fightered bike. I want a white one with a black frame. And I found it. 

[tt_four]

haha, only in the world of cruisers are riders worried about 1990 katana brakes being too powerful to enjoy the ride.

If you're mechanically inclined go for it. If you're not too familiar working on things, I'd just try to find yourself a nice clean stock bike until you get the hang of it. If you really want to screw with them, show them a couple of the bikes on customfighters.com, then the GS won't seem so bad.

[Deros514]

With the car I don't give it a whole bunch of throttle with the wheel tight because I like facing the direction I'm supposed to.

You can still face the direction you're supposed to. Counter-steering applies to cars too....Just sayin' 

I second tt_four. Custom modded stuff does usually mean more tinkering. All in all I don't know what to tell you about your dad or your uncle. I got my bike without my parent's approval(took a gamble on that one, seeing as how I still live at home) My dad warmed up to the idea and he even wants to learn to ride too. My mom is kind of warming up to it I guess, as she seems more at ease that I didn't show up at home with a sport bike.

[CheetoPet]

No worries, you can die in a fireball on any bike if you try hard enough.  As long as you have a mechanic check it out I'd not worry too much about the mods.  Obvious solution would be to simply find a stock GS500 tho.  GS is my first bike & I'm quite happy with the choice.  I'm also a tall rider, no CTS yet.  Can't comment on the sterility tho.

[burning1]

If you're really concerned about the twin front brake calipers, you can always remove one of them. Usually, you can convert a twin caliper front end to a single caliper system using the existing brake lines and banjo bolts... But if not, pickup a Katana brake line kit from Galfer, and only install one of the lines (make sure to put a bolt into the other caliper so that debris doesn't make it's way into the caliper.

Keep in mind though that while the GS500 is light, it's not *that* light. Assuming that the Katana front end was a total swap, including the master cylinder, the leverage ratios of the front brakes are already designed to give good feedback and control.

Also... It's very easy to acclimate yourself to the feel of a braking system. Touchiest brakes I've ever used? Stock 2009 Toyota Camry. Way too much brake boost on that thing - it always takes me a couple of applications to get used to it. Second touchiest was my old 04 GSXR 600. I had a CRG lever (which changes the Master Cylinder Leverage Ratios,) Galfer Stainless Steel brake lines, Galfer Stintered HH pads, and a Galfer Waive rotor. I could literally lift the rear wheel in the air using one finger on the brake lever. It never caused any problems, and it never happened by accident.

Point being, the GS500 is a fine choice.

With that said, if you are paying, buy what you wish. If your family is helping out, you should consider their wishes. The VFR is a great sport tourer with good ergonomics. Heavy bike, so I'd expect a new rider to drop it a few times... But not a terrible starting bike. Cruisers are easy to handle. Look for a sub 1 liter Kawasaki Vulcan.

[burning1]

One other thing... Take a strong measure of the person performing the customizations. It's rare to find someone who has performed OEM quality modifications on a bike.

Remember that a customized bike may lead to difficulties when it comes time to purchase parts... For example... Are the brake calipers from the donor front end the same as the stock GS500 calipers? Because if not, you'll have to order brake pads from whatever model bike the front end came off of.

[SlimKlim]

With the car I don't give it a whole bunch of throttle with the wheel tight because I like facing the direction I'm supposed to.

You can still face the direction you're supposed to. Counter-steering applies to cars too....Just sayin' 

I second tt_four. Custom modded stuff does usually mean more tinkering. All in all I don't know what to tell you about your dad or your uncle. I got my bike without my parent's approval(took a gamble on that one, seeing as how I still live at home) My dad warmed up to the idea and he even wants to learn to ride too. My mom is kind of warming up to it I guess, as she seems more at ease that I didn't show up at home with a sport bike.

Yeah, I can usually correct pretty easily with my car when it gets loose, generally its pretty predictable in a slide. However she can occasionally be hard to reign back in. I almost lost my ass at VIR on the patriot course in the pouring rain during a Circuitcross. I caught it on video too.  

However she can also snap oversteer, I crossed the line backwards at an autocross once.  

I'm sort of similar to you, i live at home, when I'm not at school that is, but my dad rides a big ass yamaha stratoliner, and they both think the GS500 is a sport bike.

[SlimKlim]

If you're really concerned about the twin front brake calipers, you can always remove one of them. Usually, you can convert a twin caliper front end to a single caliper system using the existing brake lines and banjo bolts... But if not, pickup a Katana brake line kit from Galfer, and only install one of the lines (make sure to put a bolt into the other caliper so that debris doesn't make it's way into the caliper.

Keep in mind though that while the GS500 is light, it's not *that* light. Assuming that the Katana front end was a total swap, including the master cylinder, the leverage ratios of the front brakes are already designed to give good feedback and control.

Also... It's very easy to acclimate yourself to the feel of a braking system. Touchiest brakes I've ever used? Stock 2009 Toyota Camry. Way too much brake boost on that thing - it always takes me a couple of applications to get used to it. Second touchiest was my old 04 GSXR 600. I had a CRG lever (which changes the Master Cylinder Leverage Ratios,) Galfer Stainless Steel brake lines, Galfer Stintered HH pads, and a Galfer Waive rotor. I could literally lift the rear wheel in the air using one finger on the brake lever. It never caused any problems, and it never happened by accident.

Point being, the GS500 is a fine choice.

With that said, if you are paying, buy what you wish. If your family is helping out, you should consider their wishes. The VFR is a great sport tourer with good ergonomics. Heavy bike, so I'd expect a new rider to drop it a few times... But not a terrible starting bike. Cruisers are easy to handle. Look for a sub 1 liter Kawasaki Vulcan.

I'm paying, so I'm entertaining my dad and uncle because of their seniority and experience, not because of financial obligation.

I actually have a huge thing for VFRs, something about a V-twin that revs that high is too cool. Anything I could afford is old and would need a bunch of maintenance to bring it up to speed.

As far as the validity of the modifications, its Homer's white 93, he seems like a somewhat active member here, and I think I'll know enough about it to know which parts to get.

[burning1]

The VFR is actually a V4.

Personally, I've learned to show respect to seniority, but to always keep experience in perspective. Some riders have a lot of years/miles under their belt, but not a lot of wisdom. For example... Someone who's owned sport bikes, standards, cruisers, touring bikes... Who has race, touring, and commuting experience, is a very different rider than someone who's stuck to one brand and one kind of riding for 20 years.

I've met a lot of people with 10 years of seat time who have given me bad or wrong advise.

[tt_four]

It's definitely good to take family members advice, especially considering you'll be dealing with them on a regular basis, but the problem I think you're having, which is extremely common, is cruiser riders often don't like anything but cruisers, and everyone else often does not like cruisers, and they'll both swear the other is doing everything wrong.

The GS isn't a sportbike. It's sporty and light compared to a cruiser, but if you're gonna compare it to a sportbike it's heavy and underpowered. I put clipon handlebars on my GS because I feel like I'm riding a cruiser with the stock bars. I sit upright in a chair at a desk all day at work, there's no reason I'd want to sit the same way on a motorcycle. Bikes handle better with weight over the front wheel, and people who ride cruisers are just sacrificing handling to feel like they're sitting on a sofa, and that's fine, but you've gotta choose whether you want handling or comfort, it's rare that the two go together. Make sure you get what you want since you'll be the one riding it, but it's up to you to know what you'll be getting into if you buy something your dad hates, and whether he's just giving you the old cruiser rider hard time, or whether he's gonna try to make you feel like an idiot for not buying a cruiser. There's a couple v twins out there you could check into if that's your thing. An SV650 is a bit of a step up from the GS, and not as cheap, Honda Hawks are cool bikes but not too common. I've seen a couple suzuki vx800s for sale lately for not too much, that's kind of a vtwin version of the GS.

[SlimKlim]

Uh, I sorta forgot the VFR was a V4, heh.

It's definitely good to take family members advice, especially considering you'll be dealing with them on a regular basis, but the problem I think you're having, which is extremely common, is cruiser riders often don't like anything but cruisers, and everyone else often does not like cruisers, and they'll both swear the other is doing everything wrong.

The GS isn't a sportbike. It's sporty and light compared to a cruiser, but if you're gonna compare it to a sportbike it's heavy and underpowered. I put clipon handlebars on my GS because I feel like I'm riding a cruiser with the stock bars. I sit upright in a chair at a desk all day at work, there's no reason I'd want to sit the same way on a motorcycle. Bikes handle better with weight over the front wheel, and people who ride cruisers are just sacrificing handling to feel like they're sitting on a sofa, and that's fine, but you've gotta choose whether you want handling or comfort, it's rare that the two go together. Make sure you get what you want since you'll be the one riding it, but it's up to you to know what you'll be getting into if you buy something your dad hates, and whether he's just giving you the old cruiser rider hard time, or whether he's gonna try to make you feel like an idiot for not buying a cruiser. There's a couple v twins out there you could check into if that's your thing. An SV650 is a bit of a step up from the GS, and not as cheap, Honda Hawks are cool bikes but not too common. I've seen a couple suzuki vx800s for sale lately for not too much, that's kind of a vtwin version of the GS.

Good advice, I think they are more worried about the fact that its a heavily modified bike than the fact that its a sport bike. The words "swapped front end" and "custom built subframe" freak them out. But in my opinion if I like the look of the mods, and the work has been done properly, then why be scared.

SV650s are really cool, but I heard their suspension is less than exciting and they are too expensive for me.

[burning1]

Bikes handle better with weight over the front wheel, and people who ride cruisers are just sacrificing handling to feel like they're sitting on a sofa, and that's fine, but you've gotta choose whether you want handling or comfort, it's rare that the two go together.

You don't have to sacrifice comfort for control. For street duty, the right set of bars can significantly improve handling over clipons.

Here's the quintessential SportRider article on the subject.

[The Buddha]

GS500 definetly makes a great first bike.

Kat FE is a worthwhile mod even if every one does it a little differently ... that homer mod is a good one, werase did my first one albeit with me throwing a twist in that ...

VFR is a good bike like he said its a V4 but IMHO, the 800 is garbage. Has to be a 750 somehting about having a full real frame ...

SV650 wont me as good as a GS for a first bike.
SV1K like I am selling will be even worse ... you dont want a cherry SV1K for 5G's to be your first bike do you ... no ...

The only bikes better than a GS for a first bike IMHO are all cruisers.
My heavily modded/chopped and bobbed 2000 savage for 2500 also wont be a good first bike, though it handles better than a stock savage and is lighter by over 50 lb than a savage or a GS ... light, low ... big huge 43mm FE off a dirt bike, savage, 4K miles 2500 bucks wont be a good first bike either.

OK fine I better find that motor for you ...

Cool.
Buddha.

[Ugluk]

The point of swapped parts being more difficult to maintain is really valid. I've lost track of a lot of swaps I've made on my GPz900, and I made those mods myself. Unless it's extremely well documented you're likely to have problems.

On the other hand, if your goal is a modified bike it's a good idea to get one that's mostly done already. The seller can never expect to get his expenses covered, and it cost a lot of money to get the parts.

Lastly, if you want a sportsbike, you shouldn't buy a gs. (sorry guys!)
You'd be far better of with even an 80ies 600 or 750.
The little gs is amazingly fun and rideable up to speeds of 65mph or so, but beyond there's nothing.. and even more nothing..
Also, it's really not a bike meant for passengers.

Excellent learners bike though, and could have a truly gorgeous cafe racer in it.

[burning1]

Although I agree that the GS in stock trim isn't a sport bike, getting some serious performance out of it is actually pretty inexpensive.... Especially when you consider that the money you spend on performance and ergonomic improvements can be easily recovered in the cost of consumables.

For example, I have 10 days on a set of BT003RS, including 4 race weekends. At the pace I run, I'd have gone through 3 or 4 sets of tires on a typical 600cc bike. The savings on tires have paid for every other modification I've performed on the bike.

My race videos can provide an idea of what the GS is capable of with ~$500 in mods.

[SlimKlim]

Dad and I just had an almost-fight about this bike. He was conveying the words of my uncle, who came to talk to him today.

In a nutshell, the modifications are dangerous and probably weren't done right. The Katana FE wasn't designed for the 500 and will cause problems. It's a red flag because the bike didn't sell fast enough, the fact that he is willing to hold it for me must mean he is having trouble selling it, which means I shouldn't buy it. I shouldn't pay the price we agreed on because its a "mutt." If I buy it and don't like it, I won't be able to resell it and get what I paid. 

My responses. The modifcations were done by an experienced enthusiast or a shop. It seems like half the people on here run a Katana or some other custom FE from another bike. Homer held the bike because I showed genuine interest? That's what I feel like anyway, maybe I'm naive. We agreed on the price of the bike, with a new motor from Buddha, considering that it has almost every wear item replaced. I feel like spiffed up and smoothed out I should have no problems getting what I have in this bike back out.

Am I f*cking crazy? Am I all wrong. Is this bike going to kill me as soon as I touch it or something. I got the "I'm 51 and youre uncle is 41 so we know a little more than you" thing thrown in my face. Somebody comfort me here.

[burning1]

Well, whatever is said here, you're asking for encouragement to buy a GS from the GS forum. :laughing

With that said, I bet your dad and uncle would be willing to buy a nice Harley with a lot of custom parts. I strongly suspect that they have ulterior reasons for arguing against this sale.