front brake calipers

[pandymai]

i see online when searching for newer gs500 brake calipers that some are tokico and others are ajp or atp (not sure what the insignia is). is there a difference between the two brands? i have an 89 and want to "update" my front brakes as the bike seems to still have the original front brake caliper. im looking to go to the f model years as obviously those are the latest and most updated style brake calipers.

has anyone been able to test/see differences in the two brands, or even noticed what years are associated with which caliper models?

i see calipers going for what seems to be a decent enough price. i already have what i believe is a 2005 master cylinder and stainless braided brake lines ready to throw on so im just figuring out the caliper bit.

[Lukewarm Wilson]

they should be the same, although don't really see the point of the change just put on the braided lines and new pads, Id check the disk is not worn out and the orginal caliper not leaking, if not you will be right to go 

[burning1]

The 1996+ models get the same basic design that the SV650 runs. It's a significant improvement over the stock caliper. Keep in mind; despite the fact that the caliper design is the same, there are differences between the rebuild kit. I found out the hard way that the rebuild kit for a current gen SV won't work on a 1996 caliper.

[JAY W]

Are the fork mounts for the calliper the same from 89-96  (Can the later calliper fit the 89?)
Combo Jay.

[pandymai]

The 1996+ models get the same basic design that the SV650 runs. It's a significant improvement over the stock caliper. Keep in mind; despite the fact that the caliper design is the same, there are differences between the rebuild kit. I found out the hard way that the rebuild kit for a current gen SV won't work on a 1996 caliper.

so, for all intents and purposes, should i look for an SV front caliper? what years should i be looking for?

they should be the same, although don't really see the point of the change just put on the braided lines and new pads, Id check the disk is not worn out and the orginal caliper not leaking, if not you will be right to go  

i have the original offset piston caliper and i feel the braking could be improved. i will probably get a new rotor as well when i swap off the front brake setup.

Are the fork mounts for the calliper the same from 89-96  (Can the later calliper fit the 89?)
Combo Jay.

i do believe the brackets are the same. they definitely look similar, but i havent had a later model caliper to match up to see if the fork mounts fit the mounting points on the caliper



my thoughts are basically: if the brakes were changed through the years, theoretically it's for the better. so, since my model has "outdated" brakes, and newer brake styles will fit/work, why not swap to the new style if im already having to replace parts?

[burning1]

Yes. The Ron Ayers parts Fische is a good resource for this.

By the way... The previous gen Ninja 250 uses the same calipers we do.

[burning1]

If you're planning to keep the stock front end, I'd highly recommend installing a Galfer Waive rotor. It should last longer than the stock part, and will provide noticeably better braking performance.

I used to do 1 finger stoppies when I installed them on my old GSX-R 600.

[burning1]

You could install the SV 650 caliper (it's what I have on my bike.) The rotor bolts and banjo bolt are a straight fit. You might have a problem finding just the right caliper on ebay, however.

[pandymai]

hm.. SV calipers might even be slightly cheaper (just did a quick google search) haha

burning: do you know which years should work for the SV 650 calipers? and will older model GS master cylinder be able to apply enough pressure?

[burning1]

Any year SV650 caliper should work, though it was revised in 2002, and the earlier calipers have been discontinued according to Ron Ayers.

The stock master cylinder works fine with these calipers, and the leverage ratio is almost identical to the old caliper. The major difference is that the current gen calipers won't flex as much, improving power and reducing mushyness.

[pandymai]

yeah, most calipers i see online are post 02, hopefully theyll work. just gotta keep shoppin around.. dont have money to buy these parts yet anyways haha
as for the rotors, they are PRICEY!

maybe for now i'll just clean my current calipers and get new pads in. the rotor still seems good. we'll see how money flows this month

[burning1]

Again, Galfer waive rotors. You only need one, and I suspect you could find it for less than $300 new.

The problem with the GS is that it eats the stock rotors for lunch. Half a season in, I'm on my 3rd rotor; I chewed through the first one, and visibly warped the second one.

[Homer]

SS braid lines> GSXR-1000 radial MC (3/4" stroke) > fork brace > caliper
Forget the wave rotor, unless you can afford the pad wear.  

[pandymai]

i ordered one of buddha's fork braces, and i got the braided lines to throw on from romulux. i dont really want to spend more money on a master cylinder as i have 2 working GS master cylinders (89 and i think my second is an 05.. i forget now)

i always get these crazy ideas then have to sit for a while due to finances. it's great though because i have time to realize i shouldnt be spending ANY money on anything i dont need to. i think im going to throw on the ss braided lines and test both my master cylinders to see which provides more pressure.

but i'll keep lookin out for a good deal on the calipers. =P

my current brakes dont work well enough for me. i two-finger the brakes because i tend to stay on the gas a bit just in case i need to launch myself around obstacles. so cal drivers suck and tend to cut into lanes, brake hard and fast, then accelerate off again. or wait until last minute to make their maneuvers. but currently no matter what i do i cant get enough pressure to brake safely without firmly gripping the lever.

question! how thick does the stock rotor come new and how thin should it be before changing it out? and while we're at it.. the pad thicknesses would be nice too xD

[burning1]

Pad thickness looks to start at about 3mm. I can measure later.

The rotors you can figure out yourself. The rotor surface is cut as a single piece. You wear down the parts that the pads contact, and you do not wear down the parts the pads don't rub. Measure the un-worn section, compare to the worn section, and compare that to the minimum thickness stamped on the rotor.

[gsJack]

EBC FA 231 front pad inner is 8.4 mm thick, front pad outer is 8.5 mm thick, and FA63 rear pad is 9 mm thick.  That would be total thickness including backing plate.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Assets/2010_US_MC_Catalog.pdf

89-95 GS FA129 front pads are 9.7 mm thick.

[Homer]

my current brakes dont work well enough for me.

Suit yourself.  
The caliper you're looking for is only gonna squeeze with what the MC gives it.  More pots = more fluid displacement.  
More fluid over a greater area = less pressure.  Meaning you gain extra brake lever travel.  

Think about a pair of bolt cutters with REALLY big teeth, but short little handles.  And, since you've got SS lines - firm grips instead of mushy foam. 
OR, real world : I upgraded to a Katana front, with twin disks and 4 pots per caliper.  Felt just like original GS brakes. 
Then, I put on SS lines - better feel, but same distance.
Then, radial MC with 3/4" diameter stroke: 1~2 finger braking, and my first stoppie. 

[pandymai]

i understand the mechanics of it.

my issue is with the price of the gsxr MC.

just to think out loud
i have an 89 caliper which has 2 pistons but they are offset in size. the 05 caliper has 2 large same-sized pistons correct? so, theoretically, the 05 master cylinder should be able to provide more pressure on the 89 caliper?

so if i use my 05 master cylinder on the 89 caliper, with the ss braided lines, it should allow for less travel of the brake lever than my current 89 MC with 89 caliper right?

[burning1]

Dude... The front master cylinder hasn't changed significantly in the entire production run of the GS500E. New brakes or old brakes, the Fische specifies part 59600-45C10 for this bike. Changing to the newer MC is unlikely to get you anything.

I *might* be tempted to try a SV650 master cylinder, however.

Stainless brake lines, and a pair of mid-range stintered pads are all I need to lift the rear wheel. Most everything after that is about feel and consistency.

[pandymai]

so even though the caliper changed in 96, the MC did not? does that mean the volumes of the pistons were the same, even though the design changed, so a stronger MC wasnt needed?

the part number for the 04+ master cylinder is different. does that matter? it's 59600-AOEAO

i know this all seems to go back and forth so i thank everyone for their contributions..