stuck bucket

[Nuss]

I'm currently replacing some shims on my 01 GS and I ran into a problem...I pulled up a bucket and shim with a magnet and it won't return back into its normal position/  It won't rotate or budge at all and I'm at a loss for how to push this thing back into place.  Any ideas?

[moosehead28]

I had the same problem, dont try to force it back down, they are machined to fit with very close tolerences, if it doesnt slide in then try at a different angle, and coat it with lots of motor oil

When mine got stuck, I just grabbed it with some channel locks and  a rag wrapped around the teeth so not to mark the bucket

[romulux]

It's not clear to me what the problem is.  Is the shim stuck at an angle with one part higher than the rest of the shim, wedged in the bucket?

I take no responsibility for following what I suggest:

Get a short section of wooden dowel and a mallet or hammer.  Use the dowel and hammer to gently tap the higher section until it falls into the bucket.

Have you tried rotating the engine with the right side signal generator bolt?  The cam lobe will either push it back into where it should be or wedge it even tighter.

[burning1]

Pull it back out, and carefully re-seat it. Inspect to see if it's been bent.

The buckets are pretty easy to wedge during installation.

[Nuss]

When mine got stuck, I just grabbed it with some channel locks and  a rag wrapped around the teeth so not to mark the bucket

I'll give this a shot..i really wasn't sure if i should put a whole lot of pressure on it..but the channel locks should help.

Romulux - I removed the cam shaft to get to the shims better.  i tried to pull the shim off the bucket using a magnet but the bucket slipped and rose up too.  Now i can't get it back down.  I hope that explains it better.

[moosehead28]

be very carefull with the channel locks, if you bend the bucket, theres no going back

[Nuss]

  got the bucket down.  It was a little off kilter so that one side was higher than the other so i tapped lightly with a mallet on that one side.  Scary but it went down like a charm.

NEW problem though...Sometime during this ordeal something happened.  It's not letting me manually crank the engine.  I can turn it about half a turn either direction but it feels like there's some sort of metallic stop/blockage. (plugs are out too so it's not compression pressure.)  Could the chain derailed on the bottom gear?  If so, how do i fix that and would i have to check/adjust the timing?

Mike

[burning1]

The chain will not come off the crankshaft, no matter what you do.

I don't recall if the GS is a interference engine or not, though I believe it is. If so, there's a good chance you got the valve timing wrong, and the valves are hitting the piston. Check to see if one of the valves is fully open at top dead center?

Did you rotate the engine through the full range of motion before you did the valves? Is the feel different?

[Nuss]

Looks like it's a non-interference engine - http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42889.0

Also, I found another link saying it could get kinked..

The way you set the timing with the cams rotated backwards is the same way I do mine. When rotating the motor backwards be careful, the timing chain must be kept tight as you risk it being kinked or it may jump a tooth on the crankshaft.

I might have rotated backwards just a little and that quote is from this thread: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=21831.0

I'm fairly sure that I did rotate it all the way through in order to get the shim out earlier.  It feels like something is physically blocking it from turning over and it keeps me from rotating the crank (using the starter).

Is there a how-to to check the timing?  I don't own a clymer manual and I will have to leave for school the next few days so ordering it will take too long. (i was hoping to ride it down)

[moosehead28]

pull the plug and look inside, I had the same thing happen the first time I did the valve shims, turned out as I rotated the crank, the intake valve came down and hit the exhaust valve breaking it off, and dropping it into the cylinder, so what started as a simple maintenance job turned into pulling the motor and installing a new valve

Good Luck

[Nuss]

well that's terrifying.. i don't think i have that problem though, I never pushed past whenever i encountered the resistance.  But apparently the GS500 is an Interference engine despite what some users postred.  I found this link and used it to fix the timing..worked great and allowed for free turning.
http://beergarage.com/GSTiming.aspx

so now i've fixed my timing and checked my valve clearances (all 4 between the .03 - .08 mm clearance).  I put the bike back together and fired her up only to still hear a loud clicking.  Riding it up and down the street i noticed it loses power when given some gas.  I came back to the garage, stripped her down again and rechecked the timing and clearances.  Timing was still good but my one shim that i replaced now had a 0.1 mm gap.  If anything, shouldn't it get smaller when it heats up?   

what's happening??/

EDIT: i also just noticed that the revs don't increase when choked and it'll immediately die when the throttle is turned.  if that helps
DOUBLE EDIT: at this point im going to mention that when i initially opened up the valve cover, one of the cam bearing bolt holes was stripped.  I used a helicoil and repaired the thread.  the hole happens to be on the same side of the questionable shim.
EDIT:  Only 1 cylinder is firing.. hmm

[Nuss]

Instead of editing, i figured this was new post worthy... There doesn't seem to be any compression in just one of the cylinders thus no power. 

Timing is correct, i've checked it 3 times.
Shims are not over the upper tolerance so the valve isn't always open
Valves are not broken/sheared off inside the cylinder - looking through the sparkplug, i can still see both valves moving up and down correctly

what else causes lack of compression on one side?

[moosehead28]

If the valves are closing, the plug is in and there is still no compression, the only thing left is the rings, I would go back and recheck your timing , if you removed the cams, are they back in the right position, exhaust on exhaust, intake on intake

[gsJack]

A bent valve possibly caused when they were hitting each other when the engine wouldn't crank over.  I had a sticking bucket and it held a valve open one freezing cold morning and broke off an exhaust valve while cranking.  Bucket was tight from the factory I think and it went 21k miles before it broke.  Most of the time starting on warmer mornings it would run on one cyl for 30-60 sec or so until the heat freed the bucket and it would smooth out and run fine after that.

Aluminum expands more than steel when they are heated up so the bucket would be free soon as the bucket bore got larger.  For the same reason valve clearances increase as the engine heats up, the aluminum head grows faster than the steel valves do.  I pulled the head and replaced the broken exhaust valve and it's run as good as new since, has 82k miles on it now.

[Nuss]

Updates!!

Took off the head and cylinder. I shown a light into the head and was able to see a bright ring on the other side so i took the valve out (using a homemade valve compression tool  ).  It's definitely bent, couldn't tell by holding it but spinning did the trick.  I'll end up ordering another tomorrow. 

In other news, the amount of sand I found in between the cylinder and crankhouse was unbelievable!!! It's like this thing was buried at the beach!  Funny thing is, i saw this in another thread and laughed...boy karma sucks.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50199.0

Both my head and cylinder gaskets seem to be in great shape..do i still need to replace them?  Also, a friend told me that when taking a valve out, you sometimes need to replace the valve stem seal...anyone know anything about this?

I gotta say I've learned a TON about the GS all thanks to a simple (10+ hr) valve check haha

[gsJack]

I replaced the head and base gaskets but not the valve seal.  Was taught never to reuse head gaskets decades ago and have always replaced them.  Best to replace the base gasket too, I let it go without removing the cylinders on a CM400 that I replaced a leaking head gasket on and it always seeped some oil after that.  I did not replace the valve seal and have never had a problem with it.

[Nuss]

Thanks gsJack..i'll make sure to replace them.  I can't find any dealer within 100mi that has a valve in stock so it looks like i have to order it and the gaskets.

While i have my head & cylinders off and waitin for my part, i think i'll clean off the carbon build up on the piston head.  What's the best way to do it?  I've seen a lot of different (some questionable) methods online but i'd rather not risk damaging.

[gsJack]

I used a putty knife type scraper and a hand held wire brush to clean carbon on the GS since I don't have electricity in the garage I keep my bike in.  We used a wire brush mounted in a drill motor to clean carbon in the garage I worked in when I was a kid.  Always be careful when scraping carbon off an aluminum head and cylinders.

[WorkingProject]

Please don't use a putty knife!  That is very soft metal and easy to scar.  If you have any metal shavings left over that you didn't see; then you run the motor then that chip/flake/piece/whatever gets hot, you are going to have some pre-denotation which is a very bad thing.  I am sure they make a cleaner for it.  Read up a bit about how to clean it first.

[moosehead28]

I used a brass wire brush to remove carbon build up, the brass wont scratch the alumium as bad