Dual-sport a GS500E ??

[Ken in Regina]

I kinda like that...maybe that should be the winter project instead of worrying about an "upgrade"...but wouldn't it be easier and cheaper in the long run to just get a used KLR, or a DR650? 

Easier and cheaper in the short run, not just the long run. When I decided a couple of years ago to get back into motorcycling after more than 16 years away from it, the KLR650 was the very first bike I looked at. And I looked at it again at least half a dozen times as I researched the possibilities over the next year and a half before I finally bought a bike. The KLR is just too tall and heavy. The big DR is a boat anchor .. almost nothing to recommend it, in my opinion, of course. But I wanted the KLR really bad ... or, at least, a KLR-type bike that would fit. Long story short, I ended up with a DRZ400SM. The supermotard version with its 17" wheels and slightly shorter suspension travel meant it fit me ... just barely, but close enough.

What I discovered since I bought the DRZ in June is that I'm doing way more highway riding than I expected. And enjoying it far more than I expected. Most of my riding this summer has involved a combination of lots of highway and fast gravel roads with a bit of cowtrailing. I don't need a dirt bike for that. Just a decent "standard" bike with dual-sport tires, like Distanzias or Tourances, and wider, higher bars. Not much more than that.

So, a mildly dual-sported GS500E seems like the perfect solution. And keep the DRZ for most serious offroad days, especially the trips a friend and I take to the Rockies for a few days of logging roads and ATV trails a couple times a season.

I think I need atleast two, maybe even three bikes...one street, one offroad and if the buget would allow it, one for touring...

Starting in 1973 until I sold my last bike in '94, I had at least two bikes - one street bike and one dirt bike. It's the only way. I figured this time I could get away with only one. I shoulda known better...

...ken...

[madjak30]

I think you will like the GS500...only a 31" seat height and decent enough power...I get 60mpg with it (4.9L/100kms if you are metric)...I don't have to go to reserve until over 300kms, and since you are lighter than me (looks like about 160lbs ish in the pic you posted) it should be even better...I think it is one of the easiest bike to ride and it still puts a silly grin on my face (that's why I am having such a hard time deciding on a new bike...replacing something this good isn't easy  )

Later.

[Ken in Regina]

Hi madjak,

Yes, I'm another Canuck so I capiche L/100km. I have to admit that even though I'm mildly metrified, that dumbass measurement for fuel consumption has never made any sense to me. 

I'm really looking forward to the GS. Unlike a lot of younger folks, I have not been weaned on liter bikes. The biggest bike I ever owned was a GT750. It was fully dressed. My wife and I loaded it up and did many thousands of miles on it. I never once felt the need for more power. After that one, the rest of my street riding was done on two 1981 GPz550s and a 1982 GPz550. I rode them mostly solo, as I will the GS. I never felt like the GPz's were underpowered. Other than straight line acceleration, I was always able to stay with, or mostly ahead of, the guys with the bigger bikes. It was always a point of pride to leave the loudest mouths the farthest behind. 

I really love the modern 650 twins, V and parallel. But none of the bikes they are in make any sense for me. They don't fit and they're heavier than I want. Many of the naked "standard-ish" bikes that have been suggested earlier in the thread are mighty appealing. If I was in the market for a purely street bike I wouldn't hesitate to flip a coin between the ER-6n and the Gladius. The Ninja would get serious consideration, too. As would the GS500F. 

...ken...

[Gary856]

Easier and cheaper in the short run, not just the long run. When I decided a couple of years ago to get back into motorcycling after more than 16 years away from it, the KLR650 was the very first bike I looked at. And I looked at it again at least half a dozen times as I researched the possibilities over the next year and a half before I finally bought a bike. The KLR is just too tall and heavy. The big DR is a boat anchor .. almost nothing to recommend it, in my opinion, of course. But I wanted the KLR really bad ... or, at least, a KLR-type bike that would fit. Long story short, I ended up with a DRZ400SM. The supermotard version with its 17" wheels and slightly shorter suspension travel meant it fit me ... just barely, but close enough.

What I discovered since I bought the DRZ in June is that I'm doing way more highway riding than I expected. And enjoying it far more than I expected. Most of my riding this summer has involved a combination of lots of highway and fast gravel roads with a bit of cowtrailing. I don't need a dirt bike for that. Just a decent "standard" bike with dual-sport tires, like Distanzias or Tourances, and wider, higher bars. Not much more than that.

I also have a DRZ400sm and had a GS500. I rode my GS on hilly dirt roads with deep gravel, ruts - doable, but not enjoyable.

Given what you wanted, I'm surprised that you ruled out the KLR650 and the DR650, both of which should be a better freeway cruiser than the DRZ.

KLR650 being tall and heavy - well, at 400 lbs + it's heavy for a dualsport, but no heavier than a GS500. It's about, what, an inch taller than a DRZ400sm, and I've seen the DRZ modified so a 5'3" rider comfortably flat foot it. Among the Japanese 650 thumpers, everybody says this is the most road-oriented dualsport.  

DR650 being a boat anchor and nothing to recommend for it - This is a big surprise to me. DRZ is about 315 lbs wet, the DR is only about 30 lbs heavier at around 345 lbs wet - still way lighter than a GS500. Everything I've read, from every DR650 owner, seems to indicate this is the best compromise between road/off-road. They all LOVE this bike. Peter Eagan from CycleWorld recently wrote how much he loved the DR.

[madjak30]

Ken's a little short of leg for those bikes...

You could also check a Honda Shadow RS...it is modelled after the original Sportster...and is a standard riding postion that you are looking for...but it weighs 70lbs more than a GS and has half the fuel capacity...

I think the GS500 naked is the bike you want unless you look at an enduro bike (trailie) like the Yamaha XT250...150lbs less similar seat height, still half the fuel, but it is more efficient...??

If it is going to be more on road than off, stick with the GS500...

Later.

[Ken in Regina]

Hi Gary,

I spent over a year and a half researching my return to motorcycling; specifically which bike would best suit my specific requirements. Put that against a background of thirty years of every kind of non-competitive riding and a variety of bikes, a few years of teaching motorcycle safety and a very specific set of requirements to fit my exact needs .. needs that include my physical size and condition and some very specific kinds of riding I wanted to be able to do.

I knew that highway riding would be involved, possibly a significant amount. So any bike I bought would need to be not just streetable but decent at highway speeds for at least an hour without a break. (@madjak, that's why a sweet 250 like the Kawasaki Super Sherpa got ruled out, even though I would love one.). Gravel/dirt roads and casual offroading are my greatest joy. So, even though that comprises a much smaller portion of my riding, it is still the most important to me.

That, along with the size and weight, is why I ruled out the adventure tourers like the BMW 650GS and 650 Vstrom. I did not reject them lightly. A friend with an F650GS was kind enough to allow me to use it for a 300km loop back in the spring with two purposes in mind. First was to determine if my desire to return to riding after more than 16 years away was just a pipedream. Second was to see if that style bike was what I was looking for. Shortly after that, a dealer who I've known for many years allowed me a nice long test ride on a Wee-Strom. Those two rides convinced me that that class of bike was not what I was looking for.

As I mentioned in the post you quoted, the KLR650 was just too tall and heavy. I was also aware of the ability to add lowering links and then diddle with the front suspension and .... so on. Not interested. Then I discovered that the DRZ400 has about the same horsepower and nearly 100lb lighter. I got the hots for the DRZ400S until I sat on one. It was just as tall as the KLR and required the same messing about just to get both feet to at least tiptoe. Then I found a brand new 2009 DRZ400SM that my local dealer had collecting dust in a back room. With its 17" wheels and slightly shorter suspension I was able to touch both feet, tiptoe, bone stock. I added the optional gel seat and had the rear preload set to full soft and got a bike I can handle in the sort of mild offroading I occasionally do. It worked as well as I had hoped for a week's riding in the Rockies on logging roads and ATV trails.

I guess I was a little strong about the DR650. I don't mean to offend anyone who finds it suits their needs. It does not suit mine; not in any way at all. It's nearly as heavy as the KLR and costs just as much or more but it has none of the streetable amenities. It has no more horsepower than the DRZ, a poorer suspension, is heavier and more expensive.

If I had done the amount of highway riding I had anticipated, the DRZ would be perfect. But I've done way more than I expected and I'm enjoying it more than I expected. So I look forward to doing even more next year. I'm keeping the DRZ anyway for my few trips to the Rockies and also for those days where local dirt roads and some offroading are the main part of the agenda.

But now I want to start with something that's better on the street, fits me well and will be relatively easy to modify a little bit for gravel and dirt roads and easy cowtrailing. It will be used for those many days where the agenda is either all or mainly highway riding.

The choice of a starting point was a twin in the 500 to 650 range. My many years of solo street riding have shown me that I don't need -- or want -- anything with a lot more power than a well-tuned 500. They have the advantage of being generally smaller and lighter. Price was another factor. Buying a second bike in one year was unplanned. I have not remained married for nearly 40 years without being aware of my wife's reaction if I had started talking about buying a second new bike this soon. As luck would have it, the pre-2003 GS500E specs out perfectly for what I want to do. Even more luck, my local dealer turned me onto a customer who hasn't ridden his 1994 single-owner GS500E for a couple of years and was lamenting that he wanted a new snowmobile but couldn't really justify it without selling his bike.

We made a deal. It was a price that barely registered on my wife's annoyance meter.

I expect to come back from my first ride of the spring on my GS500E with a grin from ear to ear. I'm also looking forward to doing the wrenching on it this winter and dreaming about the riding in the spring.

...ken...

[Gary856]

Hi Ken, I see that you know what you need.  

To me the KLR and DR represent the dream of doing cross-state dual-sport rides. It's not realistic for me for now, but they fire up my imaginations. The DRZ400sm is a sexy bike (to a lot of younger riders around here), but I always imagine the KLR/DR to be more of a long distance workhorse. You're right about the GS easily beats the DRZ for freeway cruising. The DRZ is great everywhere except it sucks on the freeway.

Below are some photos of the little bit of dirt road I was able to find on the GS; any street bike can do this. I wouldn't take the GS to an OHV park, though.

[Ken in Regina]

Nail on the head, Gary.    That's exactly the sort of road that will make up the majority of my off-pavement riding with the GS. As you say, any street bike can handle that. But put a couple of inches of fresh gravel on top of that and you need a little different tire and you need a riding position that is a little more upright than your typical sportbike (leaning too forward) or cruiser (too laid back) and a little wider handlebar for a bit of leverage at slow speeds.

We've even encountered a couple of women on Suzuki 400 Burgmans out on the gravel roads around here. They were having a great time and wondered why they mostly only saw dirt bikes or no bikes at all. Fortunately for them, nobody had told them that you aren't supposed to take street bikes off the pavement.

If you can imagine an ATV trail or single-track that's about the same surface composition as that road but skinny and the occasional fence post or tree branch to hop over, that's the extreme that the GS will see. My 650GS buddy has no knees left so he can't stand on the bike anymore ... too many years of downhill skiing and dirt-biking. Anywhere he will take his GS, I'll take my GS. Nice and gentle. My days of hitting hard trails hard are twenty years behind me. Strangely enough, having had the pleasure of doing almost every kind of riding there is, I don't miss the extreme stuff as much as you might think.

I think part of it may be because I never had to go to an OHV park. I was lucky enough to ride in a lot of places before the idiots got in there and wrecked it for everyone by getting it all closed down. Lest anyone think I was one of those idiots, I can assure you we weren't. All that was asked of anyone riding in the backroads of the Rocky Mountains was to stay to existing roads and trails. That was more than challenging enough for any rider of any skill level. And there were enough of them that you could never ride the same trail twice and it would still take many long lifetimes to run out of new places to explore.

But that's not good enough for some. If you tell them to stay out of somewhere, that's immediately where they go. We knew the writing was on the wall when we started seeing riders coming into our favorite riding areas from a large city a couple hundred miles away with chainsaws strapped on the back of their bikes and ATVs. The reason they had come that far to ride was because they had already got everything nearer closed down. And it was clear from the way they were equipped, they intended to create their own trails rather than staying on the existing ones. It took them about two years to get the majority of the area closed down. Now the designated ATV and snowmobile areas are small, overcrowded and overused.

I hope that one day you can get yourself a KLR650 and head off into the backroads. Almost everywhere, there is so much of interest to see that can't be seen from the pavement. Not just pretty countryside but small towns, abandoned farms and towns, old cemeteries ... things that have many stories to tell. You can have some fun researching them when the snow is on the ground or you can just make up the stories that might have been behind them. But you will also find a lot of life left out there in the countryside, too. And that's just as interesting.

In the meantime, if you can't afford a KLR, you can just put on some Avon Distanzias or Metzeler Tourances and get a handelbar that's a little wider and a bit more rise and go do it. If you've already had your GS on roads like in your pictures, clearly you have the interest and have, or are developing, the necessary skills. Let the dream take hold!!

Cheers.  

...ken...

[ohgood]

as painful as is to say, u need a bmw. it will almost replace the drz, and definitely replace the gs. or, keep the drz and get the beemer. ive ridden the 650, and own a drz, replacing my gs. do it. enjoy

[Ken in Regina]

Hi ohgood,

I guess you didn't read my previous messages where I said that I've tried the BMW F650GS (300km trip) and it's way too tall and heavy for me. I'm glad you like it. I'm keeping my DRZ and keeping my GS500E.

...ken...

[ohgood]

Hi ohgood,

I guess you didn't read my previous messages where I said that I've tried the BMW F650GS (300km trip) and it's way too tall and heavy for me. I'm glad you like it. I'm keeping my DRZ and keeping my GS500E.

...ken...

woops, sorry about that. on the phone i usually just read the OP's idea, then run with it.

since you're keeping both, you could almost manage to make the drz more street friendly and the gs more dirt friendly i guess. more agressive tars on the gs and more dual-sportish on the drz. i wonder how odd you feel switching over from one to the other ? do your feet find 'home' or does it take a few minutes before they remember ?

i really loved my gs in the tights, traffic, twisties, slow stuff. the riding position and tallness of the drz suits me much better. the power of the drz and big squishy suspension is where my heart is now. and dirt. lots of dirt.

[Ken in Regina]

 

woops, sorry about that. on the phone i usually just read the OP's idea, then run with it.

You're forgiven.

since you're keeping both, you could almost manage to make the drz more street friendly and the gs more dirt friendly i guess. more agressive tars on the gs and more dual-sportish on the drz.

That's exactly the plan. Half done already ... the DRZ is nice and street-friendly now. Trials tires are great for both dirt and street. Squishy grips for longer rides and fewer vibes. Sweet little Cee Baileys windshield keeps the wind off. 3.9gal tank for those longer rides. A friend and I built a luggage rack and I put a JC Whitney topcase on it. Kaoko cruise control for the highway running. Here's a picture.



Mine's the one on the right. 

Most of the rest of this thread has been a discussion about the sorts of things to make the GS dirtier .. dual sport tires, wider bars, reposition the footpegs, probably firm up the suspension a bit. There are some posts in the thread with some lovely examples of dual-sported GS's.

i wonder how odd you feel switching over from one to the other ? do your feet find 'home' or does it take a few minutes before they remember ?

It has been more than 16 years since I sold my last bike. Before that I rode for thirty years and taught motorcycle safety courses for nearly ten. Between my 16 or so previous bikes and all the different bikes we used for teaching, my feet and hands take about three seconds on a different bike to find everything and about a block to get right comfortable.

What was most surprising to me was how quickly most of the basic skills came back when I started riding again this year after so many years without throwing a leg over a bike. I still have a ways to go before my confidence for the more difficult manouvres is completely restored but it's coming nicely.

i really loved my gs in the tights, traffic, twisties, slow stuff. the riding position and tallness of the drz suits me much better. the power of the drz and big squishy suspension is where my heart is now. and dirt. lots of dirt.

Yes, lots of dirt. But that cushy suspension on the Dizzer is also great on the street, especially the sort of potholed pavement that passes for streets around here. And yes, if you are comfortable spinning that 400 single it really responds. It's very similar to the GS in nature .. starts to make useful power at 6,000rpm and runs out of breath at 8,500 so there's no use to run it to the rev limiter at 10,000.

Except for my first bike, a 650 Triumph twin, all the rest of my bikes have been Japanese so I learned early on to get comfortable keeping the engine spinning. I feel a little sorry for folks who aren't comfortable taking bikes like the GS and DRZ above 5-6,000rpm. They'll never experience the real performance their bikes are designed for.

...ken...

[yurtinus]

Been a while since I posted here - but couldn't help it

I just recently got a BMW F650GS which I've been commuting in the colder weather (FI + heated grips make life way easier in the winter...). OP is right in that they are very different bikes. On paper the BMW only has some 40 or 50 lbs on my faired (2009) GS500, but the different riding positions and differences in handling are pretty significant. Personally, I am more comfortable with the upright position on the BMW over the GS500 (though I have been missing how simple and flickable the little suzuki is ). Don't have any pictures, but I've taken the Suzuki on the same types of fire roads that the BMW GS has seen. Only thing that made me nervous were all the plastics - you clearly don't have that problem with the E model. Sounds like you already have this figured out though - Enough talking about it's capability - slap some Tourances on there and go ride it! Figure out firming up the front shocks down the road (Katana shocks? Progressive springs? I'm a suspension tard....).

Of course... this all assumes they make a Tourance in 17" ?

[madjak30]

A little stiffer spring and thicker oil in the forks should be good...and just dial in the pre-load for the rear...but the OP may not even need that...the suspension on the GS only has, what...4.5" travel...not the best for rough trails, but should be just fine for what he is planning...packed dirt trails and groomed gravel...

Later.

[Ken in Regina]

Been a while since I posted here - but couldn't help it

Glad you did. 

...  Sounds like you already have this figured out though - Enough talking about it's capability - slap some Tourances on there and go ride it!

Well, you see, there's this problem in these parts.  We refer to it as "winter".  Some of us .. the bikers and golfers in particular (I'm both) .. usually use the word more like a cuss word than the name of a season. So I still have months to think about it and search the online catalogues and other information sources. I agree with you totally that the best way to start is to simply pop some decent tires on her and see what else, and how much of it, is really necessary. A guy can save a lot of money and work that way.

The fork seals are weeping and need changing anyway, so I might as well change the springs. I'm watching another thread to see if anyone has a compelling reason to swap the stock shock for something else. There seems to be some discussion about whether the R6 shock or Katana 600 shock are better replacements. But I haven't found anything describing what is significantly  "better" than the stock shock about either of them.

@madjak,

4.5" rear suspension travel? That's great! If I had had even close to that on my first three dirt bikes I would have thought I'd died and gone to heaven.  I think my DRZ400 has like two feet of travel on both ends. At least that's how it feels when I try to reach the ground with my foot as the darn thing is slowly toppling sideways on a bit of slow technical stuff.  So much travel, anyway, that I can't imagine what someone my age would ever do with it all. Last time I tried to jump a house with a dirt bike was at least twenty years ago. 

Of course... this all assumes they make a Tourance in 17" ?

They do. The problem is finding anyone who stocks the size that will work on the front.

...ken...

[tt_four]

This thread is getting me really anxious for spring to come so I can try out my friends DRZ. I live in the city so I don't even know where these dirt roads/trails are that people ride, but I'm sure I could find them eventually, and would definitely enjoy a nice ride away from any traffic.

As far as that rear suspension, I think Buddha was the one who always swore the katana shock was the best option for the rear, maybe he can get you a little more info on why he feels that way. I think I've heard that with the differences in the linkage the R6 isn't as stiff as it's supposed to be. Even if the stock katana shock isn't as nice, it was still off of a similar suzuki and just does a better job of swapping in.

I'm surprised you do much highway on the drz. What kind of speeds do you usually cruise at? I feel like even my xb sucks on the highway for any more than one exit to another. 60mph is fine, but 70 starts to get too buzzy for my tastes(although it's not nearly as noticable with the stock exhaust). If they were better on the highway for a few hours I would consider trading in my xb for a DRZ, but I do hop on the highway on occasion for 30 minutes or so, and like the option to be able to ride it longer if I need, so I'll have to wait until I have something geared a lot taller before I can get one.

[mister]

dprider02 on youtube has recently picked up a dual sport as an addition to his table.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om7IRJxr2nE
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLc1IYBCf9A

WARNING: If films like Blair Witch or Cloverfield make you feel funny, his videos will too.

He's a nice fellow and will answer any question you might have about how He finds stuff. I know he goes away, but going away still leaves you with needing to find something once you're away.

Miichael

[Ken in Regina]

Hi tt_four,

I think you will be surprised at how good the DRZ is on the road. But if you want even more enjoyment you really do need to get out of town onto the backroads and see if you can also find an ATV trail to poke around on.

I ride my DRZ a lot on the highway because if I didn't I would be doing almost all my riding alone ... not something I'm much interested in.

One of my riding buddies has a Harley Road King. He turns around and goes the other way if he sees dust on the pavement.  My other most frequent riding pal lives in another city 50 miles down the highway from me. He has a BMW F650GS so he loves getting off the pavement as much as I do. But it's a fair ride just for us to meet somewhere. Also, some of the guys we ride with are strictly street riders.

To put it into perspective, I bought a DRZ400SM. The SM model is the SuperMoto, also known as a "hooligan" bike. It comes with 17" supersport tires on it and is set up for outrageous kinds of street riding. So it looks like a dirt bike and works like a dirt bike but it is also a very competent street bike. Arguably better than many street bikes if you want to have a ton of fun without a ton of weight or spending a ton of money.

The stock DRZ400SM final drive has 15t countershaft sprocket and 41t rear sprocket. That puts 70mph at just over 6500rpm. Given the powerband of the engine, that's about perfect. It's like the GS500 .. doesn't start to make serious power until it's spinning at around 6000 and peaks at around 8500. So if you're cruising on the highway at 6500rpm, you just roll the throttle smoothly and feel that puppy pull like a freight train! No issues if you want to pass because you're right at the start of the meaty part of the powerband.

Before I went out west for a week offroading in the Rockies in October I put on a set of trials tires and dropped a tooth on the countershaft (to 14t) to handle the slow speed stuff easier without so much clutch slipping. I figured I would put the 15t back on when I got back because of all the highway riding I do around here. I quickly discovered that I don't mind the lower gearing at all. I usually cruise around 100-110kph. That puts the engine at 6000-6800rpm. I love how responsive it is when it's running up there. It's a little bit buzzy but it seems like once you're up to 5000rpm it doesn't really change much after that. I've got a Kaoko cruise control so that also helps.

A word of caution: if you aren't comfortable spinning an engine up in its powerband, you'll never discover what a DRZ400 is capable of on the road ... or a GS500 either.

...ken...

[Ken in Regina]

Thanks for the video links, mister. +1 

That's the kind of riding I live for. The main difference is that I love to get out to the Rockies so those same roads also have elevation changes ... lots more up and down.

...ken...

[tt_four]

Hi tt_four,

I think you will be surprised at how good the DRZ is on the road. But if you want even more enjoyment you really do need to get out of town onto the backroads and see if you can also find an ATV trail to poke around on.

I have no doubts about how good it would be on the road. It's the same stuff everyone on this site talks about with the GS making you a good rider because of light handling and 30-40hp forcing you to actually ride the turn instead of just accelerating out of it. Only difference is you get a a bike that's 100lbs less and actually has nice suspension/parts. It would spend most of it's time on back roads and goofing off around the city. There aren't many dirt roads around me, but I'd definitely go out of my way to find a few for an occasional road. They would probably be skinnier trails through the woods, definitely don't think there are all that many wide open spaces with smooth dirt roads like in those videos. When I had my first bike, an 83 xt550, I would go ride around some housing developments since I lived near some new suburbs. There were always plenty of places with dirt/hills/things to goof around on. I dropped that bike a million times, but it'd be fun to see what I could do now that I've got a little more experience.

I love my xb, it's perfect for around town and on back roads, but like I said the occasional run down the highway kinda sucks, and I wish it had a little bit more power. The 2nd I could fix by trading up to an xb12, but it's still geared the same. I think I'll eventually pick up an I4 to make into a streetfighter, and then eventually trade in my xb on a supermoto. May end up with a drz, but I'd really love to trade for something like a street legal RMZ450. Those things are 220lbs dry and make 55hp, so that would definitely be a riot