GM S-10 Techs, ?'s on Starter Issues.

[Fry]

2003 Chevy S-10 2.4L, 2WD Automatic.

Co-Worker / Customer stops to buy gas on her way to work, upon getting back in vehicle, vehicle won't start, she calls me at work.

I go to her vehicle check all the visible connections, see that the dash lights up when turning the key, see that her Batt. and Alt. are good/new, yet nothing happens when I turn the key to start it so I figure it's a bad starter and try rapping on it with a hammer, still nothing.

I notice when I rap on the Starter Body I'm getting sparks, even though I am no where near the terminals on the starter?

Being that I was at work, I have her tow it to my house so I can work on it when I get home. While I'm at lunch I go and buy a starter for the truck.

I get home, play hell getting the old starter out, more so due to the horrible access to get the power wire off, and the smaller wire which appears to go to a Neutral Lock Out Safety Switch? as this wire runs from a small eyelet terminal on the starter going into a harness and branches off to where I think the Neutral Safety Lock Out Switch is located on the side of the Tranny, a small thin black plastic box with multiple connectors, right near where the shifter linkage attaches.

Anyways I get the old starter out, install the new starter yet still the same problem, starter wont spin, no noises coming from it.

I use a test light to see if the power wire to the starter is feeding power to the Starter, it is.

Next I find the starter relay in the fuse box, and switch it with the rear defrost(?) relay that has the same amperage and part# on it, try starting the vehicle with the swapped relays, still nothing.

I then bench test the old Starter with a Battery Charger hooking the Neg. cable of the charger up to the Starter ear, then I tap the Pos. Batt. Charger lead to the Solenoid lead  on the Starter and BAM the Starter spins over in the vise, WTF...

I'm at a total loss here?

I'm going to replace the Starter Relay tomorrow even though I tried swapping it out with another relay, hopefully thats the problem?

I tried Starting the vehicle in all gears and in Neutral with the same results, Starter wont spin over? Is there a way to trick or defeat the NLOS? Is there a method to test if that component is bad?

Whats up with the old starter Arching when I hit it? It did have a rusted clipped on heat shield around the starter solenoid, that possibly could have rotted away enough to connect the power and solenoid lead on the Starter to Arch it out, but Damn I replaced the Starter, leaving off the heat shield and it still wont turn over, and the old starter bench tested fine?

What else could it be?

Thanks for any and all insight.

[yamahonkawazuki]

what was different on teh bench test ( successful vs) other unsuccessful tests?

[Fry]

what was different on teh bench test ( successful vs) other unsuccessful tests?

Bench test, well the small wire to the Neutral Safety Lock Out switch was needed/connected, juts used a power source to power the starter up...And it spun....So I guess I answered my own question? Well there wasn't a relay involved either with bench testing.

[natedawg120]

I've seen corrosion on the NSS power cause the problem that you are describing, esp with the sparking if you think it was comming from that area.  If the connections on the + cables are clean then the NSS might be bad itself.  I have simply hot wired them in the past or wired in a start switch in the middle in place of the NSS.  That is likely your problem.

edit: the switch was to actuate the NSS and the solonoid itself, because my lock cylindar was bricked in an 86 Cavailer and that was cheaper; 

[yamahonkawazuki]

I've seen corrosion on the NSS power cause the problem that you are describing, esp with the sparking if you think it was comming from that area.  If the connections on the + cables are clean then the NSS might be bad itself.  I have simply hot wired them in the past or wired in a start switch in the middle in place of the NSS.  That is likely your problem.

edit: the switch was to actuate the NSS and the solonoid itself, because my lock cylindar was bricked in an 86 Cavailer and that was cheaper; 

aye. i had to bypass teh brake pedal safety switch in a 98 lumina ltz.

[Fry]

I've seen corrosion on the NSS power cause the problem that you are describing, esp with the sparking if you think it was comming from that area.  If the connections on the + cables are clean then the NSS might be bad itself.  I have simply hot wired them in the past or wired in a start switch in the middle in place of the NSS.  That is likely your problem.

edit: the switch was to actuate the NSS and the solonoid itself, because my lock cylindar was bricked in an 86 Cavailer and that was cheaper; 

I F'n hot wired the F'n thing, Solenoid wire is not feeding power to solenoid, so I traced the Purple wire from the Solenoid, it goes up over the Tranny, into the rear Pass. side engine compartment and runs over into the fuse panel under the hood, probably to the relay, which I changed with no luck either. No matter where I probed that Purple wire it was not showing power to it.

So I cut the F'n wire, wired that to a toggle switch I neatly mounted on her lower dash, attached another wire to the fuse panel power feed, with an inline fuse, and sent that to the toggle switch as well. All lines/joints were soldered, heat shrinked, and covered in accordion plastic sheathing, and it is cleanly installed yet easily reversible if another tech wants to try and fix it.

Turn key to start it/crank position (Wont crank with just the key), flip the toggle switch up until it starts, flip toggle down to de-energize the Bendix, good to go.

HACK

[yamahonkawazuki]

dont that as well in the past. but used a push button. that way i was sure i disengaged it

[mach1]

I think your working harder than need be first thing is to test power to the S termilas or the one thats goes to the solenoid. if no power check for power coming from the ignition switch. your NSS is not the issue possibly a faulty ignition switch or the wire that goes from the switch to the starter. Id say start from the switch if power is coming out but not getting to the solenoid the wire is no good had that on my tbird and ran a new wire from the IS to the solenoid and worked fine.

[yamahonkawazuki]

I think your working harder than need be first thing is to test power to the S termilas or the one thats goes to the solenoid. if no power check for power coming from the ignition switch. your NSS is not the issue possibly a faulty ignition switch or the wire that goes from the switch to the starter. Id say start from the switch if power is coming out but not getting to the solenoid the wire is no good had that on my tbird and ran a new wire from the IS to the solenoid and worked fine.

good point. aslso check continuity if unsure. but ^^^ what he said. give it a go

[Fry]

I think your working harder than need be first thing is to test power to the S termilas or the one thats goes to the solenoid. if no power check for power coming from the ignition switch. your NSS is not the issue possibly a faulty ignition switch or the wire that goes from the switch to the starter. Id say start from the switch if power is coming out but not getting to the solenoid the wire is no good had that on my tbird and ran a new wire from the IS to the solenoid and worked fine.

good point. aslso check continuity if unsure. but ^^^ what he said. give it a go

Screw giving it a go....I spent way to much time on this POS, charged her very very very little labor, and she's just happy it's done. Yes, Yes it is hack and I'd be concerned wouldn't do it, if she was concerned and told me she didn't want a toggle start.

Thanks Though.

[yamahonkawazuki]

at least its working. ive mcgyvered many of my cars lol. wait until my v8 rx7 is finished. lol. i think my cop car is giving up her heart for this one. 4.6 v8 double sump pan. police ecm etc

[bill14224]

I have the answer.  You proved your starter is good, and you proved you have power to your starter.  The only possible answer is your starter has a poor ground connection when it's in the bike.  It's the only thing left.  Take heart, you're almost there!

[yamahonkawazuki]

I have the answer.  You proved your starter is good, and you proved you have power to your starter.  The only possible answer is your starter has a poor ground connection when it's in the bike.  It's the only thing left.  Take heart, you're almost there!

and that is a huge problem because the bike is a chevy s10. im sorry forgive me . i was beeing a smartass. all issues aside. ( beign solved) id prefer the older vehicels you didnt have to go through hell and high water to solve minor annoyances