Engine trouble

[breaker950]

So I went to ride to work yesterday and then a problem came up. My engine just started losing power and tapping really loud. Of course I pull over and immediately cut it off. I then quickly opened the oil cap and steam/smoke arose. So I had the wife bring oil and when she gets there abouit 30 minutes later I put in about 2.5 quarts of oil to fill it back up. Yeah I know it got THAT low.

I have never had any issues with it burning oil before. I guess I didn't take into the factor that I have been doing almost only highway riding since the last oil change and that might change the temps of the engine enough to burn it up. Anyways back on to topic.

I tried turning it on after the oil being poured in and it sounded like it was struggling to move(probably getting oil back up to the top of the engine) the pistons up and down. I am not a GS500 expert, but afterwards it started to smooth out some. But it kept a distinct tapping noise which is closest in resemblance to SlimKlim's video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_zAH1_mUUI

That's pretty much exactly how it sounds. I tried to use the hose trick while it was running some, but didn't want to hurt it anymore and I couldn't really pinpoint anything while trying it. I needed to get to the carbs since they needed a rejet(stock jets were still in while K&N filter in stock box/stock exhaust) I already had the jets, but was waiting for the time to change it.

My question is could this be a valve issue? Could the heat from the engine have shifted the valves or something like that? The sound seems to go away at idle a little but with the rpms at 3k and above it comes back.

I am about to take the valve cover off when I get home and I can get pics if someone can tell me if I have damaged anything from pics.

You guys have always been awesome since I got this bike 3 years ago and I have learned a lot mechanically from your awesome site.\

BTW if someone would be willing to come by and help out that would be awesome too! Clarksville, TN if anyone is mechanically inclined.


Nick

[mister]

How long ago was the last time you checked your oil?

A day, week, three months, ?

Michael

[breaker950]

It had been about a month. I checked every once in a while, but i never burnt oil really at all before.

[Paulcet]

Running without oil is a death sentence for the motor.  89-2002 models have a capacity of only  2.7 qt, plus about 1/2 qt in the filter housing.  2003+ with oil cooler might hold a little more.

I fear the worst for you!

[breaker950]

As do I Paulcet. I know it was dumb to have run low on oil, but my question is now what can I do? should I tear into the engine and rebuild or just buy a new engine and part/sell this one as a fixer? Anyone know what to expect price wise if I take it to a shop for a rebuild? I just don't want to make a hasty/costly choice. I would rather weigh my options first. I might just take the engine from the 99 I just bought from another user on this forum and just swap the engine out..... maybe turn the other frame into an electric bike? I don't really know at this point.

[Paulcet]

Others have had quotes over $1000 for a rebuild. Most suggestions on the forum are to replace the motor with a used one (ca. $500).

[The Buddha]

A motor will be cheaper than a rebuild, but with a motor you never know if it runs or not. Or even if it has the same problem as yours or not.

A whole bike would be the safest, that way you can part your current one out, but be a bit cautious, you'd really sell some parts in a few weeks and the rest will sit and rot.

Tanks and guages would go first, followed by carbs, and some other nicnacs, but the rest is going to sit for a long time. Maybe motor parts like alternator and ignition pick up's but really the rest are near about worthless. Not worth the effort of pulling them off the bike.

Cool.
Buddha.

[breaker950]

So I took a look at the valves and the smallest measuring tool I had went down to .038mm and that would not fit in either exhaust valve. I did want to make sure that I was meant to measure the right exhaust valve when the two cam notches faced inward and the left exhaust as the notches faced outward right? Well if both are out of clearance could that be causing the loud metallic tapping noise? Also since there was a lack of oil would that just accelerate the lack of clearance and hopefully I have done no damage? I would just like the opinion of someone that would know better than I on if I should try to change the shims or just jump to a new motor. Thanks again guys for always being so helpful!

-Nick

[Allen]

so your smallest feeler does not fit.... can you turn the bucket with your fingernail?  If it turns freely, then you still have some clearance.  If it is stuck, then change it out and go down at least 2 sizes on the shim.  Make sure all your shims are withing spec,  I'd rather spend $30 bucks to see if it works, than to buy another motor not knowing if your old one is toast or not.  I am curious to know if you have any visual damage to anything on the inside that you can see, do your cam lobes have pitting?

[Allen]

whats the year/mileage?

[breaker950]

Its a 2005 and 15,000 miles on it. I did not notice any damage to the lobes but I didn't look at them very carefully. I will try and get pics of them today if the weather is permitting. I have not tried to move the buckets but I will get on that tonight. So when buying shims online you suggest getting 2 sizes smaller? so should I get 2.60 and 2.55 just to be safe? I believe they are the stock shims since Ive only had them checked once since I have owned the bike myself, but I am not absolutely sure.... and on top of that I have to wait for the shim tool to arrive before I can get the shim out right now.


Nick

[The Buddha]

Low oil = bearing damage - take off the cam caps and inspect it, if its not overly awfully gouged you're OK. Then the other bearings tha tdepend on oil are in the crankcase, however if those are bad and have suffered from low oil, then you filled the oil up it will last exactly ~5 miles @ highway speed.
So Inspect the cam caps, forget the valve clearance, if the cam caps are fine, put new oil and filter and ride it around your block ~20 times. If it makes it its fine. If not, its going to die and you then need a new motor. Almost nothing you can do if the crank bearings already are bad. It will make banging noises especially on closed throttle, that will be the first indication, you then limp home and park it and get back to your computer and start searching for a motor. Or a whole bike preferably one with a lot of missing parts.
Cool.
Buddha.

[breaker950]

newbie question.... what are cam caps? is there anyway I would be seeing those with the valve cover off or do I need to lift the whole header?


Nick

[Carltheproducer]

I just had the same issue with my '08 GS500 over two weeks ago in LA. Commuting to work on the 10 from Downtown LA to Culver City. Splitting lanes, mildly, and then an awful ticking sound and I lost all power (cc power) pulled over as fast as possible. Got off the bike, looked around and saw a little bit of smoke coming out of the left side of the engine. Almost $1k for an engine swap of a '97 GS500 motor, installing the purchased used 97 engine and adjusting values and recalibrate the carburetors to the remaining components of the '08 GS. I used some pieces of my '08 engine to complete the engine swap. I again, I asked Polo (my mechanic) how my '08 engine gave out like that and he said, "The only thing I can think of is that you were reeving way to high all the time. You had enough oil and it wasn't that dirty." So I guess it was a factory lemon, only if it could've happened 8 months ago (warranty). After shelling out $450 for '97 Motor and $500 to Polo, I am back riding. First thing I noticed was I don't have as much pep as before, especially on highway although now I am self-conscience about my RPMs. So far, after riding about 150 miles on the bike, it runs smooth.

So unfortunately friend pay $1.2k to rebuild that engine (not knowing if something else will give out because of this issue) or buy a good running used engine (I paid $450 off Ebay, and local pickup).

[breaker950]

I think I found the answer to my question, but to be sure.... the cam caps are those 4 bolt caps that are inside the cam right? as in the 8 total bolts that hold the header on and the 4 inside are the ones im checking for damage? If so I do not remember seeing any damage or wear, guess Ill just adjust those valves and try running it around the block. Ill take pics and post to be sure. Thanks again guys!


Nick