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Quick Heat Question.

Started by Fry, April 24, 2011, 08:00:37 AM

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Fry

April 24, 2011, 08:00:37 AM
O.K. I'm at the point where I am installing the homemade under belly exhaust system seen here:



I am concerned with the heat the exhaust cans (Tubes wrapped already) will create under the oil pan and want to add some protection. I was thinking of purchasing some of that adhesive backed heat barriers that they use on car floors and such.



Can I apply that stuff directly to the cans or does it need to be applied to the item you want to keep heat soak away from? I can't just stick it to the oil pan itself so I could fab up a thin heat shield out of really thin aluminum sandwiching it in between the top of the cans and the oil pan, then stick the heat mat to that? Would this be overkill? Would the aluminum heat shield be enough? without the adhesive backed barrier?

Can the adhesive backed barrier be directly applied to the item creating heat or does it need to be applied to the item requiring heat protection?

Thanks
Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman

Jared

#1
April 24, 2011, 08:10:50 AM


Do the cans sit right against the pan? I think a heat shield  with an air gap between the pan and cans would be adequate  ---and  probably not even necessary- the factory exhaust sits right under the pan now- How much closer to the pan are you compared to factory


When the 2nd Amendment is lost, the rest will soon follow.

Torque is LBs-FT Damn it.
Yeah that was me.    One of my rides

Fry

#2
April 24, 2011, 08:16:19 AM
There is a few inches of clearance between the top of the cans and the bottom of the oil pan...The cans sit right under the pan itself...Maybe I don't need anything but I'm thinking being the GS is air cooled, any heat I can keep out of the oil would be beneficial?

Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman

Jared

#3
April 24, 2011, 08:27:37 AM
Yeah it would be beneficial.... most of the heat soak would occur during stop and go traffic tho ...

You may want to look at Jegs  http://www.jegs.com/p/Flowmaster/Flowmaster-Muffler-Heat-Shield/744763/10002/-1  -- Maybe you could adapt something from there or fab up something.

How wide are the cans side to side overall?  Maybe you could even use those universal heat shields that fit the Harley exhaust cans (most fit 2 inch pipes..).

You could probably even use some SS or aluminum mechanics cloth and do what you said- make  it yourself .


When the 2nd Amendment is lost, the rest will soon follow.

Torque is LBs-FT Damn it.
Yeah that was me.    One of my rides

Fry

#4
April 24, 2011, 08:34:29 AM
What ever I end up with, I will be making it myself, I'm a cheap bastard.

The width of the 2, laid flat, Kx65cc Cans are just inside the width of the lower frame rails....
Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman

Jared

#5
April 24, 2011, 08:53:59 AM
Frugal.... we're frugal...

I'd make a single shell- slotted to fit over the exhaust mounts --- or even us the mounts to hold the shell itself.

I keep picturing a shield off a catalytic converter from a car or something...
When the 2nd Amendment is lost, the rest will soon follow.

Torque is LBs-FT Damn it.
Yeah that was me.    One of my rides

Fry

#6
April 24, 2011, 08:56:29 AM Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 08:59:50 AM by Fry
Quote from: Jared on April 24, 2011, 08:53:59 AM
Frugal.... we're frugal...

I'd make a single shell- slotted to fit over the exhaust mounts --- or even us the mounts to hold the shell itself.

I keep picturing a shield off a catalytic converter from a car or something...

Exactly....The mount, which has 4 studs hanging down to receive the cans could accept a slightly arched shield/clam shell type of barrier. I don't want to conceal the cans but I could make one just wide enough to be effective. I'd have to make it more of a M shaped piece when bent so it mounts flat to the center mount but bends up and over the cans....

Here is a pic of the mount and exhaust temporarily put in place, upside down of course...

Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman

jeffdodge

#7
April 24, 2011, 09:38:34 AM
I love that look.
that exhaust is killer.

ojstinson

#8
April 24, 2011, 09:39:49 AM Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 09:46:20 AM by ojstinson
On hot days in slow traffic those cans are certain to add to the problem somewhat. Every exposed metal part of your engine dissipates some heat and adds to engine cooling, so whatever you do don't apply the shield directly to the oil pan, if anything apply it directly to the top surface of the cans. The cans have a much larger surface area than two pipes underneath and would certainly compound your cooling problems on hot slow days. The big question is would this configuration compromise cooling enough to damage anything---probably not.
I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are you people.

JAY W

#9
April 24, 2011, 05:05:27 PM
Doesn`t exhaust wrap stop the pipes cooling therefore adding heat to your engine? I know it seems to be fashionable at the mo but i think it`s only beneficial on welded pipes that would otherwise look ugly.Would like to hear yours though should be pretty cool.
89 GS5,Squire sidecar,risers,Skidmarx bellypan,R1 oval can race can baffled,96 forks,beefy kwak shock,heated grips,scotoiler.LED Clocks.

Fry

#10
April 24, 2011, 06:11:02 PM
Jay, yes the Wrap will keep the heat in the Pipes and probably add more heat to the engine. I did it for purely aesthetic reasons.

However, lets throw all this talk about what I'm going to use (Probably nothing in light of this new issue) as a heat shield because I screwed up somewhere along in the fab process and the individual down pipes of the exhaust need to be lengthened about an inch,SOB...

When the pipes are bolted onto the motor the Silencers don't line up to the under engine mount I welded in. The silencers are sitting up too high and tight against the oil pan and the flange of the mount I created, they need to drop down about in inch so I can swivel them in and mount them to the studs on the under engine mount, SOB....

I have no idea what happened, during mock up they seemed to fit, no idea as to why they don't now. I could just figure out some way to re do the under engine mount to work were the pipes are sitting now, that wouldn't be that difficult however the pipes sit to close to the oil pan and frame rail.

So I'll have to un due the wrap, cut each pipe, weld in an 1/2 to an inch long sleeve, then I'll be able to mount the cans to the under engine mounting studs, WTF>>>>




Here you can see that the mounting ears of the Silencers are sitting on top of the under engine mount, I need to drop the Silencers down about a 1/2"~1" so the mounting ears slide over the studs.



By adding about a 1/2~1" to the down tubes I believe it will move the Silencers down and allow them to 1.) Sit level and 2.) utilize the bottom mount.



I hate myself right now, Argh@!#$....1 step forward, 7 million back.
Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman

Jared

#11
April 24, 2011, 06:24:22 PM

Header wrap keeps heat in the pipes/ie the exhaust gases hotter....which keeps the exhaust gases moving faster...more scavenging...more volumetric efficiency.

That sucks that you have to redo it... Did you have the engine bolted in exhaust bolted tight for the mockup?
When the 2nd Amendment is lost, the rest will soon follow.

Torque is LBs-FT Damn it.
Yeah that was me.    One of my rides

Fry

#12
April 24, 2011, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Jared on April 24, 2011, 06:24:22 PM

Header wrap keeps heat in the pipes/ie the exhaust gases hotter....which keeps the exhaust gases moving faster...more scavenging...more volumetric efficiency.

That sucks that you have to redo it... Did you have the engine bolted in exhaust bolted tight for the mockup?

Yeah during mock up every thing was in and tight, UGH.....Whelp, 2 cuts, 2 welds and a re wrap, UGH....
Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman

Fry

#13
April 25, 2011, 05:21:19 AM
Well, this pissed me off so much I dreamed about it and woke up pissed thinking about it all night, WTF what a way to ruin a day off from work. I guess seeing how I have work off I might as well get this exhaust figured out and fixed. Argh!@#$%^&
Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman

jp

#14
April 25, 2011, 05:58:41 AM
Personally, I don't think the heat under the engine will be an issue unless you spend a lot of time stopped in traffic, or just crawling along at 5-10 mph. At anything above those speeds the heat from the mufflers will be pushed back behind the engine.

scratch

#15
April 25, 2011, 09:11:54 AM
Agreed, the distance from the OEM exhaust headers was close; just the way the designers designed it.
The motorcycle is no longer the hobby, the skill has become the hobby.

Power does not compare to skill.  What good is power without the skill to use it?

QuoteOriginally posted by Wintermute on BayAreaRidersForum.com
good judgement trumps good skills every time.

Fry

#16
April 25, 2011, 01:02:43 PM
Today was a productive day out in the Garage. The Exhaust system initially did not fit correctly as well as being to close to the lower frame rails and oil pan. I discovered this when mocking the system up to see if I needed a heat shield of sorts. I have no idea what occurred to make the system as far off as it was, but after a few hours out in the garage with a Chop Saw, Welder, and Grinder every thing mounts up perfectly, level and there is plenty of room between the top of the Silencers and the bottom of the Oil Pan. Everything looks symmetrical and level. All I have to do now is re-paint the header tube portions with DEI Ceramic (1400 degree) paint that I welded and ground on, then re wrap with the exhaust wrapping, install the exhaust pipe/head donut gaskets and remount everything one last time.

Here I have the bike hung to be in a better working position.



Next I cut the down tubes after they bend coming out of the head. Once both pipes were cut I then bolted up the 2 Elbow shaped portions that fit into the head, then I bolted up the 2 Silencer and pipe combos to the under engine mounts. This left me with about and inch or so gap in the down tubes that I needed to fill. I cut a 2" length of 1 1/2" I.D. exhaust tubing to use as a sleeve over the existing exhaust tubes, filling in the inch gap, in this pic you can see the sleeves not in their final position.



In this pic the sleeves are slid upwards covering the gap made by cutting and fitting the entire system.



Tacked into place, yes it looks like bird shaZam!.



Once tacked into place I removed each system and welded and ground them fully on the bench and remounted each one.



Everything fits perfect now, in this pic your looking from the front of the bike back at the under engine mount. Both Silencers are level and low and behold are far enough away from the oil pan for me not to worry about a heat shield.



With the bike back on the ground and everything solidly mounted I am pleased with the results. They sit flush, level, and are seemingly symmetrical from every angle, just as I initially intended.











Well, that's it for today, once I re-paint and re-wrap these I will start on getting the carbs rebuilt, jetted, and mounted along with the lunch box K+N...
Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman

scratch

#17
April 26, 2011, 08:41:54 AM
Looks great!
The motorcycle is no longer the hobby, the skill has become the hobby.

Power does not compare to skill.  What good is power without the skill to use it?

QuoteOriginally posted by Wintermute on BayAreaRidersForum.com
good judgement trumps good skills every time.

ojstinson

#18
April 26, 2011, 09:30:10 AM
...... who is obsessed with issues of heat.
I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are you people.

Fry

#19
April 26, 2011, 09:51:40 AM
Quote from: ojstinson on April 26, 2011, 09:30:10 AM
...... who is obsessed with issues of heat.

I am/was, no since in adding more heat into the motors life blood if I can aviod it.
Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?
Walt Whitman
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