EFI, my unsolicited 2 cents...

[BaltimoreGS]

Not looking to stir the pot or insult anybody but I've been here a few years and I see the EFI talk pop up from time to time.  I also know that the GS attracts a lot of beginners so the newer people may not know about previous threads on the subject.  I have owned many bikes (20+) in my life.  I've had single carb, multi-carbed and fuel injected machines.  I'm also an ASE Master and Toyota Expert certified technician so I'm not talking out of my ass here.  I know some people have had some carb headaches (myself included) with their GS but as carbureted bikes go, the GS carb set up works very well once you get it dialed in.  My old '89 GS always fires right up and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to see the insides of it's carbs.  I don't see any great advantage in investing a lot of time and money into converting an old school carbureted bike into an EFI powered machine.

I also think a lot of people on here don't realize that most motorcycle EFI systems are not like cars.  Most motorcycles use a very primitive set up that would be equivalent to a 1980's car.  "I want EFI so I don't have to choke my bike when I start it."  My first 2 fuel injected bikes (2000 VTR1000 aka RC51 & 2001 CBR929RR) didn't have a "choke" but they did have an "enricher circuit" that had to be turned on during every cold start just like a choke.  Now I'll start using an SV650 as an example since that is a popular next bike for GS owners. It does not have any sort of choke but you still need to let the bike warm up before you ride away or it will run rough and sometimes stall. Plus it is good practice on any bike to let the engine heat up before you ride it.  "I hate cleaning my carbs."  While you don't have a float bowl to clean, throttle bodies can get dirty and clogged up too over time.  "Synching carbs is a pain."  Sorry to inform you, set ups with multiple throttle bodies (like an SV) need to be synched occasionally too.  "I hate rejetting when I mod my bike."  This is my biggest pet peeve with motorcycles coming from an automotive background.  When I got my first fuel injected bike I made that statement myself. Then I noticed the lack of an oxygen sensor in the exhaust.  When changes are made to a car, the computer can sense the changes via the mass air flow and oxygen sensors and adjust the fuel trim to compensate (to a point).  Most motorcycles just use fuel mapping which uses set logarithms to adjust fuel delivery, there is no real time monitoring. When you add an intake and exhaust to a fuel mapped EFI you don't have to "re-jet" but you do have to reprogram the fuel injection system to  utilize these changes.

So while EFI may be better in some ways it is not necessarily the be all/end all of motorcycling.  Clean your carbs, get them dialed in, do your regular maintenance and ride your GS for what it is: a simple, basic, fun carbureted motorcycle.  My 2 cents...

-Jessie

[tb0lt]

I agree with most of the stuff you said. But at the same time, also having owned both carbed and injected bikes over the years, I have to say I will personally take EFI over carbs ANY DAY.
The EFI thing is just a matter of convenience. Once setup right, a custom tailored EFI setup instead of an OEM setup is usually a lot more user/modification friendly and allows fine tuning. I also agree that a blind pre-set map type system without O2 sensor feedback would be a bad way to go about it.. although cheaper.

[Roxtar]

I too am new to the bike world... and every car I've ever owned has been fuel injected. from throttle-body-injected 80s and 90s chevys, fords, and subarus, to early multi-port injected porsches and the sophisticated rev-happy 2zz-ge from various toyotas and th lotus elise/exige.

growing up, most of the cars in my family fleet used carburetors. the 1984 chevy conversion van hated starting up on cold mornings and more than once left my mom stranded due to a flooded carb. the myriad of late 1970s lincoln town cars would run oddly on road trips with any significant altitude change.

I mess with things. that's who I am. it's nice having a system that doesn't freak out and need to be re-jetted when you do something simple like bolting on an exhaust. it's nice when the IAT and MAF automatically tell the injectors to step up their game when it's cold out.

what it all boils down to is what people are familiar with. 90% of my wenching has been on fuel injected vehicles. I'm comfortable with fuel injection... carburetors are still mostly a mystery to me. They're like a high-maintenance woman. They're awesome when they're being cooperative, but that fickle little Buddha Loves You is just waiting for the opportunity to make you look like a fool.

[Pelikan]

Once the bike is running I'm fine with carbs.  But the start up "WAAAAHHHHH!!!" draws the kind of attention I'm not so fond of.  More than one person has asked, "Do you have to do that with all bikes to get them started?"

Ultimately, I've dumped enough money into this bike, and will keep the carbs.  Just as soon buy a new (used) bike for what EFI would cost.  I'm actually kind of kicking myself for spending as much as I have on it already, as with that money I'd be well on my way to a new ride.

Oh well.

[XLAR8]

2008 GSXR 750 has to be warmed up to 47oC before riding off, i have 2 mates one with the 08 and one with an 09 both need this temp or the bike runs like a frog in a sock.

and on the noise factor at start up my gs cant be heard beside either one on cold start up.

[Twisted]

2008 GSXR 750 has to be warmed up to 47oC before riding off, i have 2 mates one with the 08 and one with an 09 both need this temp or the bike runs like a frog in a sock.

and on the noise factor at start up my gs cant be heard beside either one on cold start up.

Yep have to do it with my EFI Ducati Monster too. Bet I could drown your mates Gixers out though lol.

[The Buddha]

Yea my SV also needs about 160F ...

I ride off the GS 30 seconds after starting it on a day where it is 10 whopping degrees.

Are there any EFI air cooled bikes out there ... think about it ... yea ... nope.
Why - hotter motors ironically work better with leaner mix, leaner mix = hotter motor ... see how that vicious cycle will end.

I'd even say carbs need to be setup 1 time ... then if you constantly use the bike, and dont get really really crappy fuel ... I mean like the kind that has twigs and sand in it ... it will usually never need a visit ... In the non epa bikes that actually happens @ the factory. You can easily ride forever and never touch the carbs.

If you ignored the bike with FI for as long as some people have ignored their GS'es, you'll be replacing the whole blooming FI system ...

Cool.
Buddha.

[BaltimoreGS]

Yea my SV also needs about 160F ...

I ride off the GS 30 seconds after starting it on a day where it is 10 whopping degrees.

Are there any EFI air cooled bikes out there ... think about it ... yea ... nope.
Why - hotter motors ironically work better with leaner mix, leaner mix = hotter motor ... see how that vicious cycle will end.

I'd even say carbs need to be setup 1 time ... then if you constantly use the bike, and dont get really really crappy fuel ... I mean like the kind that has twigs and sand in it ... it will usually never need a visit ... In the non epa bikes that actually happens @ the factory. You can easily ride forever and never touch the carbs.

If you ignored the bike with FI for as long as some people have ignored their GS'es, you'll be replacing the whole blooming FI system ...

Cool.
Buddha.

That's really my main point, a properly dialed in carburetor system can be just as reliable as an EFI system.  If you want something fuel injected just buy a different bike, there's no reason to spend time and money modding an EFI system for the GS.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it    

-Jessie

[Fry]

"Hey, LOOK at me, I have a EFI equipped GS..."

Sadly, I think most who want EFI on the GS do it for this purpose alone, well mixed with a big heaping helping of misinformation and mis understanding.

[gs500e]

I think it is great some dude is monkeying with his GS and making it EFI.. improving on another's design.. maybe even making a marketable kit.  

I would enjoy every moment of such a project, if i had spare time for it.

Make it an EFI and turbo kit.

[tb0lt]

"Hey, LOOK at me, I have a EFI equipped GS..."

Sadly, I think most who want EFI on the GS do it for this purpose alone, well mixed with a big heaping helping of misinformation and mis understanding.

Using the same logic used to broadly generalize people who want to keep up with newer and better technology, once could also say people who love to stay with outdated and inherently limited technology such carbs do it just so that they can be just like dear old pops and say... "Yeah, i mess with engines and rebuild my carbs, just like daddy used to". It is an established psychological fact that boys end up wanting to be just like daddy, atleast in the subconscious if not in the conscious mind.... be it in the choice of women or hobbies.

Also, unless you are talking about a kit put together by someone else or a ready to bolt on kit, it would generally take a LOT higher lever of intelligence, information and understanding of ICE operation, AFR ratios and electronics to put together an EFI kit for a GS..... compared to tinkering with carbs.... a technology ( ) as old as the ICE.

[karatechop5000]

Carbs are cool. I'll take whatever looks better. FI might be good with a badass manifold; but those carburators are already nice.

[Fry]

"Hey, LOOK at me, I have a EFI equipped GS..."

Sadly, I think most who want EFI on the GS do it for this purpose alone, well mixed with a big heaping helping of misinformation and mis understanding.

Using the same logic used to broadly generalize people who want to keep up with newer and better technology, once could also say people who love to stay with outdated and inherently limited technology such carbs do it just so that they can be just like dear old pops and say... "Yeah, i mess with engines and rebuild my carbs, just like daddy used to". It is an established psychological fact that boys end up wanting to be just like daddy, atleast in the subconscious if not in the conscious mind.... be it in the choice of women or hobbies.

Also, unless you are talking about a kit put together by someone else or a ready to bolt on kit, it would generally take a LOT higher lever of intelligence, information and understanding of ICE operation, AFR ratios and electronics to put together an EFI kit for a GS..... compared to tinkering with carbs.... a technology ( ) as old as the ICE.

Fair enough....

[tb0lt]

Fair enough....

I salute you for being such a great sport.
 

[The Buddha]

BTW I probably could FI one of the ones I got ...
The FI system would need an extra 100 watts over what the GS needs.
We may have to cannibalize a GSXR ignitor box, I already have a GSXR ignitor rail, a GSXR fuel pump too will be needed ...
And here is teh scheme to get an extra 100 watts ... take out the rotor, break off the 6 magnets, and replace them with the N52 monsters we can buy nowadays for under $10 ...

Finally after all this - my bet, it will be an unreliable temperemental beast. However the thing is - I probably could be done for just about 100 - 200 ... the magnets are likely to be the most $. The rest is your patience andebay/google/junkyard skills. My GSXR rack was very cheap is I recall - somewhere in the under $20 range. But the ignitor and all the rest, and yea sparkplug coils from the same bike ... essentially get all the components from 1 bike ...

Cool.
Buddha.

[Jared]

Are there any EFI air cooled bikes out there ... think about it ... yea ... nope.
Why - hotter motors ironically work better with leaner mix, leaner mix = hotter motor ... see how that vicious cycle will end.

Most if not all Harley Davidson models as  of 2007 and later have EFI...and  I think it was an option for some models  as early as 1996.

[The Buddha]

Oh yea ... correct, I have to look into those, they still had the single throat right ... maybe they ran like crap till the thing heated up. Or ... the 1 manifold solves some problems ... the bloody rear cyl anyway runs hotter ... I ahve to check into it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Fry]

Fair enough....

I salute you for being such a great sport.
 

To tell the truth I was/am so horrified by your avatar that I couldn't stay on long enough to make a proper rebuttal, WTF Dude, seriously?

[Broox]

So is is the carb system the reason i have to let my bike warm up for so long before i can ride it without it bogging real bad, and sometimes even dying?

[Twisted]

Yea my SV also needs about 160F ...

I ride off the GS 30 seconds after starting it on a day where it is 10 whopping degrees.

Are there any EFI air cooled bikes out there ... think about it ... yea ... nope.
Why - hotter motors ironically work better with leaner mix, leaner mix = hotter motor ... see how that vicious cycle will end.

Cool.
Buddha.

Yep Buddha, the Ducati Monster 2 valve engines are all air cooled EFI from 2000 - 2007