Problems starting--starter clutch or electronics?

[paalak]

I've been having problems starting my GS for awhile now, and it seems to have been getting worse. I have to twist the throttle to get it to start. When it's hot it'll start the first time when I twist the throttle, but not if I don't twist it. In cold weather I have to hit the start button with throttle twist 3-4 times before it will start. The starter engine makes that chugging noise, but the frequency is much slower than it should be. I recently adjusted valve clearances and replaced the battery, and although both these things fixed other problems, they didn't do anything for the starting issue.

I've read up on how to inspect the starter clutch, but before I open up the crank case I want to be sure that's the issue. Could the problem be electrical? I just bought a new battery, so I don't think it's that. A few months ago I jump-started the bike with the car's engine running. Later I read that the car's engine shouldn't be running. I'm not sure what harm that can do, but I thought maybe that's the cause. Around the same time I also had a low-side with the bike falling on the left side, and I know that can cause problems with the starter clutch. I don't remember exactly when the starting issue started, so either of those things could have been the cause.

So I'm just wondering if the symptoms I described point more towards a starter clutch or en electronic issue.

[Big Rich]

Jumping from a car thy has the engine running can harm the car- not the motorcycle. Not sure what it does exactly though......

What year is the bike? Could just be the brushes on the starter motor are dirty or worn out. To me it sounds like your idle jet or choke is clogged. Clean the carbs and check the wiring between the starter motor and starter relay for corrosion too.

[paalak]

Jumping from a car thy has the engine running can harm the car- not the motorcycle. Not sure what it does exactly though......

What year is the bike? Could just be the brushes on the starter motor are dirty or worn out. To me it sounds like your idle jet or choke is clogged. Clean the carbs and check the wiring between the starter motor and starter relay for corrosion too.

Should have provided more info. It's a 2008. I checked the carbs when I adjusted the valve clearances, and they were clean, including the pilot jet. The choke seemed alright from what I remember, plus it works fine once the bike is started. Once it's warmed up there's no problem with idling either. I don't think I was having these issues before my low-side, so maybe that's what started it?

The oil was way low when I bought the bike 6 months ago. I got a good price, but it looks like the PO took pretty bad care of it for at least some of the 10k miles he put on it. It was a bank repo so I'm hoping it was just for the last couple thousand miles. Anyway, it runs great once I get it going. I've heard running it on low oil can mess up the starter. I'll check the wiring too, hopefully it's that. An electrical problem would be much easier to fix. I think if it's necessary to open up the engine and work on the starter I might just bite the bullet and take it to a shop. After changing the tires, chain, sprockets, rear brake disc and pads, and adjusting the valves with no prior experience working on bikes, I think I've earned the right to laze out just a bit 

One more question. I just replaced the gasket on the left-side case cover 3 days ago, when I removed it to replace a broken bolt. If I remove it again or have a mechanic do it, will I have to replace that gasket again after so little time, or can I leave it in?

[Big Rich]

Depending how many heat cycles the motor has been through, you should be ok with that gasket.

If the starter is like mine, you don't need to pull the side cover off. Just unbolt the motor cover, disconnect the wire, then the 2 bolts actually holding the motor in. A little tap with a mallet and you're good.

[werase643]

starting a bike with a running auto might( and does) fry the regulator of the bike....50-50 if it does
the bike batt is tiny the car battery is big
the bike regulator is for 220 watts approx
the car reg can handle....1200+ watts
think dueling banjos and the car wins many times

[paalak]

Thanks for the tips. I think I'll start by picking up a multimeter and checking the regulator. My gut tells me the problem is electrical, just because of the way it sounds when I try to start it. Sounds like the starter just isn't getting enough juice from the battery. If that doesn't turn out to be it, I'll try removing the motor cover.

[birdhandler]

you really need to start with your battery and its connections to the starter motor
make sure the batteries fully charged and the water levels OK
make sure all the conections to the starter motor are clean this includes the ground strap
Once you are sure this is OK you can look elsewhere, to eliminate the regulator as a problem you need an A1 battery anyway
You do not mention using the choke whats the ambient temperature where you live at the moment?
happy trouble shooting
Good luck

[mister]

Cold starting: Full choke, clutch in, press starter (no throttle), once it kicks into life Then throttle.
Warm Starting: No choke, clutch in, a small amount of throttle, then press starter

So far what you describe is normal.

Cold weather: Starts are more sluggish. This is normal.

However, do check your battery level. It will probably need topping up.

Also, if it has been sitting in the Cold Wind too, try putting it on Prime before starting. Also try starting it with you on the bike (so bike is upright).

Previous two winters my bike did this. Not this winter (yet). But it is running a tad richer and I am using different oil.

Michael

[paalak]

Cold starting: Full choke, clutch in, press starter (no throttle), once it kicks into life Then throttle.
Warm Starting: No choke, clutch in, a small amount of throttle, then press starter

So far what you describe is normal.

Michael

That's not what I described, though now I see I could have put it more clearly. I don't mean I have to twist the throttle 3-4 times in cold weather to get it to start on the first try. I mean that I have to hit the start button 3-4 times, twisting the throttle a bunch of times on each attempt. Sometimes it takes 5-10 minutes and as many as 5 tries before it will start. So I'm assuming that's not normal. On the first 2-3 attempts it cranks very slowly, maybe 3 cranks every 2 seconds. I keep the button held down while twisting the throttle over and over, but it just keeps cranking without starting. I'll be checking the electronics in a couple days, when I get a multimeter.

EDIT: I also fully charged the battery with a tender before trying to start it this morning, didn't make any difference. So I don't think it's a battery issue.

[ryott52]

What kind of battery did you get? Some of them you have to add acid to before it'll properly hold a charge. It couldn't hurt to check the levels in the cells.

[paalak]

What kind of battery did you get? Some of them you have to add acid to before it'll properly hold a charge. It couldn't hurt to check the levels in the cells.

It's a sealed battery. This one:

http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/sYT10L-A2.html

Plus I was having this problem before I replaced the battery, which is why I replaced it. Don't think it's the battery.

[paalak]

Managed to fix the starting problem and just wanted to post the results here in case it's useful to someone else down the road. Turned out to be corrosion in the regulator's connection plugs. They were corroded so bad that I had to pry one of them apart with a screwdriver. I checked the resistance levels between the various parts specified in Haynes, and one turned up 8 ohms when it should have been 40 ohms. Cleaned it up with some battery cleaner, resistance shot right up to 40 ohms. Put some dielectric grease on them, plugged them back together, and it started up with no throttle. Problem solved. As usual, thanks to the knowledgeable members around here for once again saving me the big chunk of change I would have had to spend taking it to a mechanic