Does a LED flasher indicator fix the 4 way flash problem?

[crzydood17]

I know the cause of the 4 way flash is caused by power bridging across the indicator light (on the dash) because its doesn't have any diodes to stop the flow of power through it to the other side. Would a LED dash bulb fix this problem?

[Big Rich]

Nope. You need either 2 separate indicator bulbs or a diode. The signal will still cross an led bulb.

[crzydood17]

damn, i was hoping since the LED was a diode itself it would fix it, hmmm might be time for a little mod work, i wonder if i can make my gauges flash left and right so i know my turn signal is on....

[weedahoe]

In our Dodge Ram trucks, the way the PCM sees the bulbs is through the filament in the bulbs. When we go to HID and no filament, we get crazy results that are commonly flashing. We have to use 50ohm load resistors across the bulb circuit to mimic a filament and then they will work as they should. Are smaller load resistors for you guys with no an option for some reason?

[adidasguy]

With LED turn signals, not much voltage or current is required. That's why they all go on.
Using an LED indicator will allow current to flow one way so turning one way will make all 4 go on, the other way just that side but the indicator won't go on.
A non-polarized LED will probably not solve the problem - though it might if it doesn't let much current go through it. An incandescent bulb you have in there now lets lots of current go across it - more than the turn signals require.

One solution is to have 2 turn indicators : one for left and one for right connected in parallel to the turn signals thus breaking the connection between left and right by eliminating that bulb. You can use LED's.

Another is to use 2 diodes. Connect a diode to left, other to right (the 2 wires that go to the indicator right now) then connect them to the plus side of the replacement LED indicator. The minus side of the indicator goes to ground (which can be found on any of the other 3 indicators). You can use an incandescent lamp, too, if using 2 diodes.



NOTE: While you could use a full wave bridge rectifier, it would allow current to go both ways and might not solve your problem.

I think I got the diodes drawn right. Been a while since I drew a schematic.

[numus]

Would be awesome to source one of those diodes that the bike currently uses (has 2 inputs and 1 output for the neutral switch). Can't find one anywhere...

[slipperymongoose]

I went the diode route it cost me $0.50, a few bits of heatshrink,  about 20cm of wire, and about half an hour of time. I did mine inside my headlight, I got all the info I needed off the site and she works a treat.

[the mole]

damn, i was hoping since the LED was a diode itself it would fix it, hmmm might be time for a little mod work, i wonder if i can make my gauges flash left and right so i know my turn signal is on....

If you used an led for the panel light, it would only let current flow in one direction, so with (say) left blinker on, you would get all four flashing and the panel light, with right you would get only the right flashers and no panel light.

[numus]

With LED turn signals, not much voltage or current is required. That's why they all go on.
Using an LED indicator will allow current to flow one way so turning one way will make all 4 go on, the other way just that side but the indicator won't go on.
A non-polarized LED will probably not solve the problem - though it might if it doesn't let much current go through it. An incandescent bulb you have in there now lets lots of current go across it - more than the turn signals require.

One solution is to have 2 turn indicators : one for left and one for right connected in parallel to the turn signals thus breaking the connection between left and right by eliminating that bulb. You can use LED's.

Another is to use 2 diodes. Connect a diode to left, other to right (the 2 wires that go to the indicator right now) then connect them to the plus side of the replacement LED indicator. The minus side of the indicator goes to ground (which can be found on any of the other 3 indicators). You can use an incandescent lamp, too, if using 2 diodes.



NOTE: While you could use a full wave bridge rectifier, it would allow current to go both ways and might not solve your problem.

I think I got the diodes drawn right. Been a while since I drew a schematic.

A full wave rectifier would not work because it would still ground thru the opposite side.

wiring 2 separate diodes is the cheapest way.. but the cleanest would be to pick up something like http://www.motosport.com/motorcycle/oem-parts/SUZUKI/2002/GS500/WIRING-HARNESS/DIODE/36611-38A00

[adidasguy]

A full wave rectifier would not work because it would still ground thru the opposite side.

I believe I said that.
However - there is a slight chance due in part to:
1. LED indicator would not let much current through, so maybe not enough for the turn signals to come on
2. A diode has a 0.7 volt drop. Voltage through the full wave bridge would be 1.4 volts
Combine those two factors together, and the voltage and current passing through could be low enough that it MIGHT work. (Would not work with an incandescent lamp as it will allow too much current to pass)

If you used the $12 Suzuki part, you still have the same number of cuts and connections to make if you were using 2 ten cent diodes. Diodes probably take less space since they are like the size of the wire, not a small cube. Up to whom ever is doing it as to which part they want to use. I'd put them in-line on the wiring harness to the indicators. Pull all 4 lamps out. Modify the harness then put back in with LEDs. (PS: no headlight bucket on an "F". Headlight bucket on an "E" is so crammed full of stuff I hate to ever have to get into there.)

PS: Since a full wave bridge can be had for a quarter, if you want a "Suzuki Like"part, buy a full wave bridge and just use the 2 pins for AC input and the "+" output. Cut off the minus/negative output. Simple as that!

PSPS: You can get dual diodes in a package if you look for them. Here's a data sheet on one that costs about 20 cents:
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/656350DIODESINC.pdf

[weedahoe]

So just to be clear, the issue isnt when you add LED turn signals just to the back but when you add them to back AND front right?

[numus]

A full wave rectifier would not work because it would still ground thru the opposite side.

I believe I said that.
However - there is a slight chance due in part to:
1. LED indicator would not let much current through, so maybe not enough for the turn signals to come on
2. A diode has a 0.7 volt drop. Voltage through the full wave bridge would be 1.4 volts
Combine those two factors together, and the voltage and current passing through could be low enough that it MIGHT work. (Would not work with an incandescent lamp as it will allow too much current to pass)

If you used the $12 Suzuki part, you still have the same number of cuts and connections to make if you were using 2 ten cent diodes. Diodes probably take less space since they are like the size of the wire, not a small cube. Up to whom ever is doing it as to which part they want to use. I'd put them in-line on the wiring harness to the indicators. Pull all 4 lamps out. Modify the harness then put back in with LEDs. (PS: no headlight bucket on an "F". Headlight bucket on an "E" is so crammed full of stuff I hate to ever have to get into there.)

True... i hate every time i have to take the headlamp off and disconnect the harness... I am about to put a full wave rectifer on there to cure the polarized LED problem tho...
I see what you are saying about the voltage drop... i measured 9 volts across the grounded LED when i tried to replace my turn signals, so your assessment seems dead on at 7.6 volts probably wont trigger it.. I just went with short stalk incandescent because i wasn't planning on modifying the gauge cluster.. then when i got the new one i just dove right into modifications lol.

[adidasguy]

Half wave rectification (i.e. 2 diodes or half of a full wave) is better as it isolates your left and right turn signals, preventing both sides from coming on if you go all LED and enough current was getting through.

As for replacing  just the front or rear with LED, that has too many variables to know for certain so I'd modify the indicator anyway. You would need an electronic flasher due to the different load or your turn signals might flash so fast they can cause an epileptic seizure.

If you're taking time to do something, take a little extra and go all the way.

[weedahoe]

Reason i ask is I recently swapped out those huge orange OEMs for smaller clear lens LED turns on the rear and they work fine. But here soon I will be adding new mirrors on the front with LEDs in the for turn indicators and wanna get prepared in case I have issues

[crzydood17]

i think i will just keep my damn turn signal light out for a while lol

[ramennoodles]

I did all four led turn signals.  What I got was all four came on and not flashing.  Went to radio shack and got some 10ohm 10w resistors and spliced them in parallel (like I was adding another light bulb) in the front left and right turn wires.  Flashes a tiny bit faster than stock but they work pretty good.  I guess you could just get premade ones off ebay for around $10 or less.  The radio shack resistors are about $3.

[Big Rich]

Ramen- don't know if you know it, but keep an eye on those resistors. They can get hot enough to melt wires and maybe discolor paint.

[numus]

Ramen- don't know if you know it, but keep an eye on those resistors. They can get hot enough to melt wires and maybe discolor paint.

Yup.. they turn into tiny little heat coils...

[weedahoe]

yeah they do but again, we use 50 watt load resistors on our dodge ram trucks to do that same thing (manipulate the electrical circuits) and it works fine. ive had four 50 watt load resistors on my truck for my HIDs for years.

http://tinyurl.com/3gqhyrr

[ramennoodles]

Ramen- don't know if you know it, but keep an eye on those resistors. They can get hot enough to melt wires and maybe discolor paint.

yeah I keep an eye on it.  It gets hot if its ran for a while so I try to limit the time it's on.  Hasn't got hot enough to melt anything, including the electrical tape I wrapped around it.  I may just buy the 50w ones off ebay that are already premade.