Hard time cold starting (update pg.3)

[grader]

sounds like it needs more fuel at startup. run some seafoam through it, 1 once per gallon, this will clean the fuel system and carbs. i would also use the regular with ethanol, as that gas will remove any water and also clean the fuel system. as for loosing mpg, im getting 78-80 mpg cdn. with it, so it cant be that bad.

[rayshon]

yeah i've watched the video and i'm gonna try the clearance check and adjustment soon...

and seafoam? I've never heard of that. how do i run it through  like you said?

[Toogoofy317]

Here is what I'm hearing from the guys at the Motor Cycle Clinic. This ethanol is killing our carbs! They say they get 3-4 carbs a week more than normal because of the gas. The sad thing in Florida they even dumped it into the premium so it seems there are no choices for us down here. Also, quite a few gas stations have been busted for dumping more ethanol than what is allowed by law so you don't even know what you are getting anymore. MCC also said that for Flick no real use in using the high test with ethanol because he is not a "high performance" bike. Also, you have a lot higher chance of getting old gas because prices are so high very few people buy it causing the gas to sit longer and the gas to not be properly mixed anymore. 

Mary

[rayshon]

i tried starting it with the gas cap open, same thing happens

[grader]

seafoam is a fuel conditioner/carb-intake cleaner that cleans carbon and fuel deposits. its from the u.s. and just came to canada a few years ago. check  a uap/napa store. the carbs will handle ethanol up to 10%, but if its higher it may cause problems. i believe the choke is actually an enrichener circut, not a butterfly valve that closes off the intake, and if it is plugged or partially plugged it will not provide the extra fuel needed for cold start-up.

[rayshon]

seafoam is a fuel conditioner/carb-intake cleaner that cleans carbon and fuel deposits. its from the u.s. and just came to canada a few years ago. check  a uap/napa store. the carbs will handle ethanol up to 10%, but if its higher it may cause problems. i believe the choke is actually an enrichener circut, not a butterfly valve that closes off the intake, and if it is plugged or partially plugged it will not provide the extra fuel needed for cold start-up.

Oooh. It's a spray right? Do I just warm up my engine, turn it off, spray it in the engine somewhere, and turn it on and rev it a few times? (that's what I've seen in youtube videos)

And for the choke, when the engine is on and choke is fully on, it sits at like 3.5-4k RPMs, so I don't think the choke cable is loose or anything...could it be? I would check but there's flippin cables everywhere 

Also, when I remove the gas tank do I have to drain the gas first? Or can I just loosen it, set petcock to OFF, and take it out?

[grader]

seafoam comes in a spray but you want the engine treatment that gets added to the gas.

[ramennoodles]

seafoam is a fuel conditioner/carb-intake cleaner that cleans carbon and fuel deposits. its from the u.s. and just came to canada a few years ago. check  a uap/napa store. the carbs will handle ethanol up to 10%, but if its higher it may cause problems. i believe the choke is actually an enrichener circut, not a butterfly valve that closes off the intake, and if it is plugged or partially plugged it will not provide the extra fuel needed for cold start-up.

Oooh. It's a spray right? Do I just warm up my engine, turn it off, spray it in the engine somewhere, and turn it on and rev it a few times? (that's what I've seen in youtube videos)

And for the choke, when the engine is on and choke is fully on, it sits at like 3.5-4k RPMs, so I don't think the choke cable is loose or anything...could it be? I would check but there's flippin cables everywhere 

Also, when I remove the gas tank do I have to drain the gas first? Or can I just loosen it, set petcock to OFF, and take it out?

set the petcock that's bolted into the tank to off before you disconnect your fuel lines.  It would be easier to lift off if the tank is not full of fuel.  It can be heavy

[rayshon]

alright, this is really getting annoying. i'm starting to see a little white smoke for a few seconds after it (Eventually) starts up.

it's definately a fuel problem, so next week i'm gonna take the fuel tank off, what should i look at?

is there a fuel filter or something that could be the problem? i know to look at the choke and fuel lines, but what exactly should i look for? what about carbs, could that be the problem?

also i'm sorry i keep bumping this, this problem won't go away ):

[mister]

rayshon, have you checked the valves yet?

I agree with start simple. But it's due for a check anyway, so at some point you're going to have to do it. Why not now, just to rule it out at the least?

Michael

[rayshon]

rayshon, have you checked the valves yet?

I agree with start simple. But it's due for a check anyway, so at some point you're going to have to do it. Why not now, just to rule it out at the least?

Michael

I wanna try the simple stuff, then checking valves and carbs as a "last resort" lol

checking to see if it needs adjustment, and actually adjusting them are 2 different things right?


thanks for the reply

[ramennoodles]

white smoke is just moisture burning off. My gs does it every morning monday through friday warming up before I head out to work.  Black smoke is fuel burning and blue smoke is oil burning.  If it eventually starts then runs fine it's getting the fuel to keep it running right?  Now that you have plenty of cranking amps and you say choke does change idle after it starts,  next check I would do is check valves.  the only fuel filter is inside the tank, it's connected to the tank mounted petcock.  I guess you could clean it while you got the tank off but would have to drain all your fuel out.

[ramennoodles]

rayshon, have you checked the valves yet?

I agree with start simple. But it's due for a check anyway, so at some point you're going to have to do it. Why not now, just to rule it out at the least?

Michael

I wanna try the simple stuff, then checking valves and carbs as a "last resort" lol

checking to see if it needs adjustment, and actually adjusting them are 2 different things right?


thanks for the reply

checking the valve clearance is pretty simple.  Adjusting is a little more complicated.  For checking valve clearance you would need a set of feeler gauges, 12mm n 10mm wrenches, slotted screw driver, a couple allen wrenches, pliers and probably some sealant to put the valve cover back on. Thats it. it's pretty easy

[rayshon]

white smoke is just moisture burning off. My gs does it every morning monday through friday warming up before I head out to work.  Black smoke is fuel burning and blue smoke is oil burning.  If it eventually starts then runs fine it's getting the fuel to keep it running right?  Now that you have plenty of cranking amps and you say choke does change idle after it starts,  next check I would do is check valves.  the only fuel filter is inside the tank, it's connected to the tank mounted petcock.  I guess you could clean it while you got the tank off but would have to drain all your fuel out.

yeah, it runs 100% fine after it starts. it just doesn't get enough fuel or something during the cranking

the dealership estimated like $500 to adjust valves..i'd rather pay $50 for all the tools and try it myself lol

[ramennoodles]

yeah, I wouldn't touch anything else then until you check those valve clearances first

[mister]

$500 to check the valves is a load of BS for a qualified mechanic.

When you check them, do it with a completely cold engine. This way all the various metals have gone back to their correct size after cooling down from engine running. Otherwise you could get wrong readings.

Michael

[the mole]

You can check the compression really easily in 5 minutes if you buy (or borrow) a compression tester, they're cheap. If the compression is good, your valve clearances are not your starting problem. That will either put your mind at rest or confirm you need a valve check. For what MHO is worth, your symptoms sound most like tight valves.
Just check them, or do the compression check, THEN get back to us. Sometimes there is no magic cheap and easy solution!
+1 to mister's comments on your mechanic--try another one.

[gsJack]

I finally listened to your bike start-up video and it sounds more like a low voltage problem than a tight valve problem but do give the valves a quick cold compression check as suggested.  No need for a guage, the finger in the hole test is all that's needed, copied from my recent post:

Remove plugs.  I tie the clutch lever to the grip with my hanky to close the switch and then hold open the throttle with one hand while cranking the engine with that thumb after placing a finger/thumb of the other hand tightly over a plug hole.  Compression will blow your finger away from the plug hole with a loud pop as you crank engine if you have compression.  Wear a glove if doing a hot check.   

If you have compression hot after no compression cold you most likely have a tight valve.  Valve clearance increases as the engine warms restoring compression and that only takes a minute or so of warming.

If you have good cold compression then the valves are good enough for quick start-ups and good running but don't ignore giving them a proper check soon, running a GS over a long time with exhaust valves set to the tight side of normal tolerances will shorten valve life.

Then check for low starting voltage, I have no idea what your ambient temps are but that video sounds like good start-up for a GS in good condition on a cold winter day here in NE OH, but not for summer time.  If you try a cold jump start from a car battery (car not running) it will start as quick as you can snap your fingers with full voltage if everything else is in order.  Maybe your battery is below par. 

Finally I see no mention of your current ambient temps and what you are doing with your choke.  Full choke in the winter works for me but bike starts quicker with only about 1/2-3/4 choke in the summer, no choke for restarts on a warm day.  Maybe I missed this early on in your posts in this thread.

[rayshon]

I usually always start with the choke 100% and get the same problem, I just didn't put it all the way on for some reason when I took the video lol

But yeah I'll try those methods of compression testing, they seem a lot easier than taking apart the engine

i'll update you guys with whatever's up with the valves

[rayshon]

think i found the problem



see the part of the t-seal circled in red? that is busted wide open

i have to take apart the carb to replace that don't i?

i can't even find which part it is on motosport.com...this bike is really getting on my nerves.