Adjusted clutch, poor engine braking.

[bombshelter13]

I adjusted my clutch the other day because I suspected it was sticking slightly. My initial adjustment was off slightly: after a quick ride around the neighborhood, I noticed it seemed to be slipping slightly when accelerating past 30 MPH... so, I pulled over, pulled out my tools, and did a second adjustment - loosening it a bit at the release mechanism, so that the clutch was more engaged in it's resting position.

After the second adjustment, everything seemed pretty good, most of the bike's behavior seems correct, except one thing: If I chop the throttle slightly in an attempt to cause engine braking, the rev's drop a lot slower than they did before the adjustment - instead of getting immediate engine braking, the rev's seem to slowly fall back downwards, slowing down the bike's forward motion very gradually instead of getting good engine braking.

Now, it's possible that these might not actually be related and might have just coincidentally happened at about the same time, but I'm wondering if maybe I need to do a third adjustment. Thing is, I'm not really sure whether this behavior would be caused by the clutch being too tight or too loose.

So... if this slow rev dropping is related to my clutch adjustment, it too loose or too tight?

NOTE: When I talk about loose and tight, I'm not referring to the lever end, I'm referring to the release mechanism - i.e., when I say tighter, I mean the release mechanism is applying more pressure to the clutch pushrod when the cable's in it's resting state (clutch more disengaged by default). When I say looser, I mean the release mechanism is applying less pressure to the clutch pushrod with the cable in it's resting state (clutch more engaged by default, less maximum disengagement when lever is pulled)

[bombshelter13]

Further description: Engine braking ability is almost gone, and if I close the throttle while going downhill without pulling in the clutch, instead of slowing quickly as you'd expect, the RPMs drop very slowly as if the wheel was pulling the engine back up to speed. If I pull in the clutch, RPMs go down immediately as one would expect, but releasing it again seems to cause the engine speed to get 'pulled' back up to the previous speed.

So... I'm going downhill in second, about 5K RPM at 50 KM/H... close the gas, the bike will slowly coast down to about 20 KM/H over about 50 meters or so.

If I do the same thing, but pull the clutch in before closing the gas, RPM's drop immediately, but when I let the clutch back out they'll be pulled back up to 5K or so and then slowly coast downwards as described.

[Dizzledan]

Engine braking ability is almost gone,

So... I'm going downhill in second, about 5K RPM at 50 KM/H... close the gas, the bike will slowly coast down to about 20 KM/H over about 50 meters or so.

If I do the same thing, but pull the clutch in before closing the gas, RPM's drop immediately, but when I let the clutch back out they'll be pulled back up to 5K or so and then slowly coast downwards as described.

This sounds like your clutch is still partially engaged and is slipping ever so slightly.
I generally adjust my clutch lever to be about 1/4 lever released is where the clutch starts to slip.
If you're having severe doubts about your abilities to set the cable, set it to an extreme where you know the clutch will be engaged/disengaged more than usual, and work your way back to what is comfortable. Check the Clymer manual that's been floating around here, it's got some good guidelines to help in this situation.

[ramennoodles]

I adjust my clutch through the side cover plate access.  I loosen the 10mm nut, back out the adjuster screw, screw it back in until it just touches the pushrod, then back it out just a hair so it's not touching.  always seems to work right for me that way

[bombshelter13]

ramennoodles procedure is basically how I'd describe what I did, but I guess the devil is in the details - maybe our idea of 'just a hair' differs. Maybe I need to back it off just another fraction of a turn.

It seems to me like if I back it off significantly more, the wheel wants to pull in first even with the clutch all the way in. I wonder if maybe I'm not getting enough travel - if that's the case I'm not sure which is the best point of adjustment to increase travel.

[Gisser]

NOTE: When I talk about loose and tight, I'm not referring to the lever end, I'm referring to the release mechanism - i.e., when I say tighter, I mean the release mechanism is applying more pressure to the clutch pushrod when the cable's in it's resting state (clutch more disengaged by default). When I say looser, I mean the release mechanism is applying less pressure to the clutch pushrod with the cable in it's resting state (clutch more engaged by default, less maximum disengagement when lever is pulled)

The clutch shouldn't be disengaged at all in its resting state    There's your problem.  The clutch pushrod should not be under any pressure with the lever out if the clearance is set correctly.  Some clutch drag is the norm when the engine is cold or oil level is high.  

[ben2go]

Slow to return to idle is a carb issue that feels like the engine is not braking.That's not a clutch issue.You do not want any drag on the clutch when the lever is released.Adjustment on the clutch is,screw in until it makes contact with the clutch push rod.Then back off 1/4 to 1/2  turn and lock the screw with the nut.Clymer states clutch lever free play should be set at 4mm.All this is straight from the manual.

[FJCharlie]

and if youre about to go, lets say you want to lounch (fast start) now you are releasing your clutch lever and giving throtle... you finished with transition with the clutch lever but its still like its pressed whats that?
like the clutch mechanism is late, lets say too greasy and takes time for friction plates to join together and work. im having this weird problem, tried other oil and tried adjusting clutch cable- still the same. but only when taking off, not having that problem when shifting any other gear...
lets say like a mechanism for not to burn your tires

[bombshelter13]

Slow to return to idle is a carb issue that feels like the engine is not braking.

The thing I don't get is how it could be a carb issue if the RPMs drop quickly (normal speed) if the clutch is pulled in? If it was a carb issue, shouldn't it still drop slowly with the clutch pulled in?

[ben2go]

Slow to return to idle is a carb issue that feels like the engine is not braking.

The thing I don't get is how it could be a carb issue if the RPMs drop quickly (normal speed) if the clutch is pulled in? If it was a carb issue, shouldn't it still drop slowly with the clutch pulled in?

If you pull the clutch and the engine returns to idle quickly,then it is not a carb issue.I may have misunderstood what I read.Probably did.

and if youre about to go, lets say you want to lounch (fast start) now you are releasing your clutch lever and giving throtle... you finished with transition with the clutch lever but its still like its pressed whats that?


like the clutch mechanism is late, lets say too greasy and takes time for friction plates to join together and work. im having this weird problem, tried other oil and tried adjusting clutch cable- still the same. but only when taking off, not having that problem when shifting any other gear...
lets say like a mechanism for not to burn your tires

I had something of the same issue a few years back.I never completely figured out the actual cause.I believe the clutch springs were getting weak.I had no way to test them.I had no problems with gear changes but from a stop the clutch would slip after the lever was all the way out.I bought a Clymer and adjusted the clutch and cable.No fix.Changed the oil every 300 miles.I used motorcycle specific oil and Fram filters.After four oil changes,no fix.I finally replaced my clutch completely.Fixed!I still use Castor 10-40 motorcycle oil.Here is my write up on the clutch upgrade.  http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56043.0 This was my fix and a few oil changes with a different oil may correct your problem.I do not know without actually having the bike in front of me.