super-grabby brakes, normal?

[Phil B]

I have a 2006 gs500f, with the stock AJP brakes.
I'm new to motorcycles, but...
It kinda seems to me like the front brake is WAAY grabby.

If lets say the brake had exactly 1 inch of play... it seems like the first 1/8 inch is just loose. the next 1/8 actually does something.

the next 1/8 is for extreme use.   and anything beyond that, would hard lock up the front wheel, I would think. It has no extra give; at 10mph, i would just do a stoppie, or drop it, if i kept it on that hard.

Why are the brakes this tight?? is this normal?  the last 5/8 of play seem to be completely useless, or worse yet dangerous?
Is there a way for me to "soften" the brake grabbiness?

[adidasguy]

Check the type of brake pads. There are different types - with some grabbier than others. Does your bike have a stainless steel brake line? If so, that makes the brakes more responsive because the brake line doesn't expand & stretch like a standard rubber one.

Others can give more thoughts.

Maybe you just need to ride the bike more and let the pads wear in (if they're new, or the bike has not been ridden for a while and the rotors are a little rough & rusty.)

Oh, it is also learning the brakes. You might be used to bicycle brakes which have to be pulled really hard by comparison.

[Phil B]

no steel lines; stock brake setup.

yes, it's definately the comparison to bicycle brakes. The thing is, on a bicycle, pulling them halfway, does actually have an effect; it slows lightly,whereas pulling full, slows strongly.

Whereas on my gs500, pulling halfway slows VERY VERY strongly. actualy, pulling 1/4 does so I'm wondering why there is a "full pull" at all.
I mean .. seriously.. when would you EVER pull full, while in motion?

btw, I'm on original brakes after 6000 miles. brakes are in pristine condition. So, no rust, yet at the same time I wouldnt think any breakin is at issue here.

Side question, possibly related: when bleeding the brake lines, a second pull, increases pressure in the line. until you open the release valve.   
How does this effect normal riding? if you pull 2 times fast in a row, your second use is going to be pulling on the brakes twice as hard? that's a scary thought, please tell me what is up with that. and how long it takes for the extra pressure to wear off?

[crzydood17]

check your linings and make sure they aren't gone, depending on how your or the PO rode, some only use the front brake, you might need to change them out if they are bare metal they can suck at first then grab hard as they cut into your rotor...

[dam]

How many of that 6000 miles have you rode? Measured at the ball on the lever I get @ 1 inch of travel to @ 1.5 inch when pulling hard. I only use 2 fingers to operate the brake and usually just use a light touch. Maybe you just need to practice a more gentle use of the lever

The goal when bleeding the brake is to get rid of all air in the lines and calipers. Air will compress, hydraulic (brake) fluid doesn't. With air in the lines or calipers the first pull will compress the air and pumping the lever will build pressure. With no air in the system each pull on the lever will feel the same as every other pull of the lever.

Dale

[Kms254]

Make sure there is not air in the lines and/or low fluid. Mine were kinda like that and this was the case for me.

[Phil B]

Hrrrmm.

well, there's "no air in the system", apart from the actual top reservoir.
There's a low line, and a "high" line. and the manual recommendation for the front, is to leave a small bubble in the top visible.
(through the round window)

So doesnt that mean there's "supposed" to be air at the top?
Which would then compress with the first pull?

very confused..

[burning1]

There is supposed to be some air in the top of the reservoir, yes. Remember that brake fluid expands a little when heated, so there needs to be an air gap for the expanded fluid to fill... Otherwise, as the fluid heats up, brake pressure will increase, causing drag, which causes more pressure, which causes...

A little initial freeplay is normal. The brake pads aren't supposed to sit on the disks, and just like a set of cantilever brakes on a bike, you need to pull slightly to engage the brakes.

No, it's neither safe nor normal to require a full pull. You want to have a good range of motion remaining after normal 'maximum' braking for a few reasons...

1. If your brake system starts to degrade, due to heat, boiling, glazed pads, etc... You may have to pull harder or further than normal to stop the bike.
2. In order to blip the throttle for a downshift, you'll need to be able to brake at maximum or near maximum power, and still have some space to wrap your fingers around the throttle.
3. Although having 4 fingers on the lever gives better control over the brakes, a lot of us brake with just 2 fingers.
4. If you wish to cover the brake (common on the track, in traffic, etc.) you'll need some space so that you can brake effectively in an emergency (for the above reasons.)

So... Yeah, your brakes seem normal. Not sure what you're used to on a bike, but if you're not getting some serious stopping power there, might be time to improve the bike's braking system with new pads, etc.

[Janx101]

my half cent worth .. And dont compare the sharpness of the front brake with the 'not so sharpness' of the back .. Sure is a lotta comments around this site about the back ones being ordinary ... Its normal from what i can gather tho .. My fronts are a tiny bit grabby till they warm up .. But the difference in braking force tween front and back can feel odd sometimes

[Phil B]

...
So... Yeah, your brakes seem normal. Not sure what you're used to on a bike, but if you're not getting some serious stopping power there, might be time to improve the bike's braking system with new pads, etc.

erm.. no, the problem is not stopping power. The "problem" is that it's too easy to lock up the front wheel!
(or at least I think it is. I almost lowsided/did a stoppie from an accidental brake at 15mph making a turn, so now I'm nervous to do a hard pull at higher speeds!! )
I cant imagine why the bike would have seemingly so over-engineered brakes on it

As far as the back goes, from the other poster: back brakes are similarly.. powerful.
Anything more than a very very light pressure, locks it up I think. Or at least starts it fishtailing a bit. Dunno if its officially "locked up" or not.

[adidasguy]

OK - rear brakes are never really sensitive. have you checked the brake pads yet?
They're worn out or someone put really grabby racing pads on.
Or your tires are so worn that they don't grip the road and makes it easy to lock a wheel. Been there - bought Trey with older tires and rear locked up really easy because the rubber was so dry and stiff. New tires and new brake pads = perfect riding (yes - pads were work down to the metal).

So check the pads - and they're not expensive so why not just put on new pads and eliminate that as a possibility? Different grades = different gripping power.

[burning1]

I think you may just be accustomed to lesser brakes. IMO, the rear brake on the GS500 is a little overbuilt, so it can be touchy. Adjusting the lever a little lower can help there. With the front, my advise is just to acclimate. Learn to modulate, rather than grab.

[Phil B]

OK - rear brakes are never really sensitive. have you checked the brake pads yet?
They're worn out or someone put really grabby racing pads on.
Or your tires are so worn that they don't grip the road and makes it easy to lock a wheel.

Aha,. this is probably it. tires have lots of tread, but are Oooold.

[burning1]

Yeah. Good call adidasguy.

I generally won't use tires that are more than 3 years old. If brakes are still too powerful after fresh tires, try using 2-3 fingers instead of the normal 4.