oil?

[Davidb]

Mobil 1 or Royal Purple? which do you think is best?

[BaltimoreGS]

Cheap old non-synthetic Rotella 15w40 works fine     

Fair warning, you are about to receive many replies saying "Use the search function"   

-Jessie

[Suzuki Stevo]

Mobil 1 or Royal Purple? which do you think is best?

Back a few years ago Mobil1 Racing T4 10W-40 ($10 Qt) had superior physical properties (MSDS) over Rotella T  ($20 Gal), somewhere along the line Mobil1 changed their formula and degraded it. Rotella T on the other hand improved their formula with the new T6, so after years of using Mobil1 Racing T4, I have switched myself to the new Rotella T6.

EDIT: The Rotella 15w40 BaltimoreGS mentioned would work equally fine, personally I haven't owned a bike over 25,000 miles in decades (BaltimoreGS or is it gsJack? has done many more miles on 1 bike than I have), I have a pretty high turn over rate on bikes, I could probably reuse the oil out of my car in my bikes and never have a problem, my 07' GS500F left with 4,400? miles on it and was in showroom condition. I could use $1.00 a gallon oil and never have a problem, considering how long I keep my bikes.

EDIT: #2 OK..it was gsJack I was thinking of 

[Dr.McNinja]

Motul 5100 10w-40.


I only put stuff made for a motorcycle in my motorcycle. But people do swear up and down non-friction enhanced car oils work good. My buddy runs 15w-40 diesel oil in his bike. I just refuse skimp on my motorcycles.


If I had to choose though, Royal Purple.

[gsJack]

Shell Rotella T now carries the JASO MA motorcycle rating, JASO is the Japanese equivelant of our SAE.  I used the Mobil 1 full synthetic 15W-50 for the first 50k miles on my 97 GS then switched to the less costly 15W-40 Heavy Duty aka diesel aka truck oils when the oil consumption increased and ran them for another 30k miles in my ageing 97.

My current 02 GS has gone all the way just turning 90k miles last week on the 15W-40 Heavy Duty oils mainly the Rotella T, my current choice for air cooled motorcycles.  Both my GSs ran cooler on the 15W-40 oils than the 97 did on the 15W-50 synthetic Mobil 1 and oil consumption was about the same.

[burning1]

Royal Purple is good marketing, not good oil.

[angelocardoc]

.

Motul 7100 10w-40 in my 07' GS500F

Both my GSs ran cooler on the 15W-40 oils than the 97 did on the 15W-50 synthetic Mobil 1 and oil consumption was about the same.

How do you know the engine was running cooler???

[mister]

So glad you asked. It is such a rarity to have a post asking about oil, yet oil is such an important aspect of owning a motorcycle. It's been ages and ages since we had such a thread. If I recall correctly, it must have been, how long now, so hard to remember, maybe 2 maybe 3... years, months weeks 

*I* use motorcycle specific oil. Currently using Motul 300v (Factoryline) but also used Motul 5100 for oh, I don't know, 30,000 clicks, and the bike ran sweet on it - fixed my false neutral problem too 

In the end, what really matters is that you Regularly change your oil and filter. A brand can help an engine run smoother, get rid of false neutrals, smoother gear changes, if you have those problems. It's good to see you have done Some research before asking the question. It shows you have some desire to keep the bike running well, instead of just opting for the cheapest Wally World stuff for no other reason than it's cheap.

Oh yeah, use the search function for a plethora of threads and oil discussions and information. 

Michael

[gsJack]

Both my GSs ran cooler on the 15W-40 oils than the 97 did on the 15W-50 synthetic Mobil 1 and oil consumption was about the same.

How do you know the engine was running cooler???

Copied from old post:

I had four Hondas before my two GS500s that were made to run on regular gas and I ran 20W-50 oil in them summers after they had some miles on them.  All four progressed from regular to mid grade to premium gas to eliminate heavy gas knock under acceleration in the summer as they became carboned up over the years.  I ran 15W-50 Mobil 1 synthetic in my 97 GS500E for 50k miles and it progressed to premium the same way the Hondas did.  After 50k miles when the oil consumption increased considerably I switched to the 15W-40 heavy duty dino truck oils like Delvac, Rotella T, etc that were becoming popular with bikers and were much less expensive than the Mobil 1 and it ran on regular gas without any further gas knock for the next 30k miles I used it.

My current 02 GS500 has only seen the 15W-40 oils and regular grade gas since I've had it and has yet to have any gas knock.  It had 4k miles on it when I bought it and has over 83.5k miles now and still runs like new.  Oil has two basic functions in an air cooled engine, to lubricate and to cool, and a lighter oil flows more freely and cools the head area better than a heavier one and it's the combination of high compression and engine heat that causes gas knock.  Your GS500 will run better on regular gas than on premium if it doesn't knock on regular.  Premium gas causes the fuel/air mix to burn slower to eliminate knock on higher compression engines. 

[angelocardoc]

Gas knock?  Spark knock?  Pre-ignition?

Wikipedia offers a good explanation.  Here    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

If your carbs are set too lean you'll get great fuel economy but run hot, causing "spark knock". 

Air to fuel ratio

15.4:1 = good fuel economy, run hot, high Nox emissions

12.6:1 = high power, cooler combustion temps, high HC emissions, carbon deposits.

If you use thicker oil (like 15W-40 as opposed to 10W-40) less heat dissipation will occur, thus aggravating the heat issue.

Wrong heat range of your spark plugs will also aggravate the heat issue.

Insufficient valve lash.

Auto-ignition of engine oil droplets (using poor quality oil)

Lugging the engine. (my GS runs best in the 4,000-6,000 RPM range)

Depending where you live, gas is different, cheap gas is just that!  Cheap.

Here in Ontario Canada...

Regular gas is 87 octane and 10% ethanol.

Mid-grade gas is 89 octane and approx. 5% ethanol.

Premium gas is 91 or 94 octane and has no ethanol.

I am certain that 87 octane makes my GS500F less powerful. 

My GS and my car both run better (more power) on 91-94 octane

So...

If your experiencing "gas knock"?  This is a condition of a hot engine.

How about engine set up?

Quality of fluids?


(Disclosure...I am by no means an expert)

[slipperymongoose]

I think you should go with what you are comfortable with. Me?? Castrol gps 15w40, I have yet to reach my first service. But on a side note I always try to run 98ron fuel, yes I may pay a whole 2 dollars or so extra then filling up with regular but I find my bike runs better and smoother so I use it. Trial and error my friend, but it's nice to have more trial and less error lol. 

[angelocardoc]

 aussiegs is right

Spend the extra $10 use good oil
Spend the extra $2 use premium gas
and avoid the overheating issues

[Dr.McNinja]

aussiegs is right

Spend the extra $10 use good oil
Spend the extra $2 use premium gas
and avoid the overheating issues

I can understand the oil. I do it as I indicated in my previous post. But fuel is a different beast. The manual recommends 87 octane for a reason. The GS500 engine doesn't produce high enough compression to cause pre-ignition like in a higher compression engine. There is no difference between any of the qualities except for their AKI (at least here in America).

I'd like to see some real evidence that high octane gas results in lower overall engine heat production. I'm calling BS on this one.

[angelocardoc]

It's not the octane that gives more power or causes less or more heat

If you have an overheating problem...it has nothing to do with the fuel octane

It's ethanol that's the problem. 

Ethanol has less BTU's than gas.  (Less omph!)

87 octane fuel would be fine...but here in Ont. it has 10% ethanol added.

I think in the states it also is added.  Canada always follows what the U.S. does.

I believe it was the Bush administration that mandated the supplement of ethanol in our fuel.

Govt. did this to decrease our dependency on foreign oil.   What a mess that turned out to be!!

[slipperymongoose]

aussiegs is right

Spend the extra $10 use good oil
Spend the extra $2 use premium gas
and avoid the overheating issues

I don't think you would run into overheating issues, the way people look after their bikes on this forum you would be hard pressed to find a poorly maintained bike in this place. But yeah find the good stuff n stick with it.

[gsJack]

Gas knock?  Spark knock?  Pre-ignition?...............................................If you use thicker oil (like 15W-40 as opposed to 10W-40) less heat dissipation will occur, thus aggravating the heat issue........................................(Disclosure...I am by no means an expert)

By the same token 15W-50 as opposed to 15W-40 will reduce heat dissipation aggravating the heat issue or to put it in simple english, my 97 and 02 GSs ran cooler on the 15W-40 oils than the 97 did on the 15W-50 oil as I said.

Should be a non-issue on the newer F models with the TPS and engine speed feedback from the electronic tach to the module retarding spark under high load conditions.  Also the F models have an oil cooler not previously used on pre F model GSs.

The ethanol you make a point of also was not in the picture back around 01-02 when I switched from the 15W-50 to the 15W-40 oils, it was just plain old gasoline of various octane ratings and it was commonly held that a car, bike, or whatever ran the best on the lowest octane that would not cause gas knock.  I still find it to be true on my older GSs and believe the 15W-40 Rotella JASO-MA rated oil to be the best oil currently available for my bikes. 

[mister]

I believe it was the Bush administration that mandated the supplement of ethanol in our fuel.

Here we go again... blame Bush...

Gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol has been in increasing use in the United States since the late 1970s. More...

If something is Mandated by a pollie, understand it is NOT the pollie mandating it. They are just a Puppet. A convenient person to Blame so those who truly make the decisions remain hidden and blameless.

Michael

[angelocardoc]

Looks like I hit a raw nerve there. 


I stand corrected 

[burning1]

Not a big fan of the 43rd president myself, but I think political pot-shots really don't belong on a motorcycling forum unless we're in a political thread. Politics of Ethanol are much more complex than simply being an issue of executive privilege or current administration, so it comes off as ill informed and vindictive.

Not really trying to gun at you specifically... It's just a message I like to get out there. It's easy to forget that despite our common interests, there's a very wide range of political beliefs in the moto community.

[Dr.McNinja]

Gas knock?  Spark knock?  Pre-ignition?

Wikipedia offers a good explanation.  Here    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

If your carbs are set too lean you'll get great fuel economy but run hot, causing "spark knock". 

Air to fuel ratio

15.4:1 = good fuel economy, run hot, high Nox emissions

12.6:1 = high power, cooler combustion temps, high HC emissions, carbon deposits.

If you use thicker oil (like 15W-40 as opposed to 10W-40) less heat dissipation will occur, thus aggravating the heat issue.

Wrong heat range of your spark plugs will also aggravate the heat issue.

Insufficient valve lash.

Auto-ignition of engine oil droplets (using poor quality oil)

Lugging the engine. (my GS runs best in the 4,000-6,000 RPM range)

Depending where you live, gas is different, cheap gas is just that!  Cheap.

Here in Ontario Canada...

Regular gas is 87 octane and 10% ethanol.

Mid-grade gas is 89 octane and approx. 5% ethanol.

Premium gas is 91 or 94 octane and has no ethanol.

I am certain that 87 octane makes my GS500F less powerful. 

My GS and my car both run better (more power) on 91-94 octane

So...

If your experiencing "gas knock"?  This is a condition of a hot engine.

How about engine set up?

Quality of fluids?


(Disclosure...I am by no means an expert)

Run your bike on a dyno with 87 and 91 octane. Make sure to drain the tank and the carbs each time.

You'll find your bike produces the same power either way.