Installed exhaust/pods/etc today. Things I learned

[Dr.McNinja]

So I installed my exhaust and everything today. Here's what I learned:


I know it's taboo, but Dynojet jet kits are nearly 1000x better than the buddha jet kit in my opinion. It's possible that the dynojet jets are better because I'm located in the same climate they produce them in, but I also had it verified with a guy who has all the electronics to work with carbs and he agreed that the main/mids in the buddha jet kit are much too large to be used with any sort of response gain. They will work, but the fuel smell was rediculous and it was obvious they were far too large. I'm by no means knocking buddha, but it instantly became apparent to me why their kits are expensive. The responsiveness of my bike was INCREDIBLE with the dynojet kit vs the buddha kit. YMMV however.

So what're the numbers? I was given a 147.5 in the buddha kit. The perfect number was the Dynojet equivalent of 132. I ended up going with whatever mid-main they supplied in the dynojet stage 1 kit as well (the buddha one might've worked as well, didn't test it), and the idle jet from the dynojet stage 1 kit. The bike doesn't have any lean spots, and the throttle is crisp and smooth throughout the power band. The mixture screws weren't played with at all.


My suggestions:

- Get a professional with carb equipment to AT LEAST rejet the carbs for you. Truthfully, the thousands of dollars of equipment takes the "black art" out of rejetting and turns it into a science. It took less than an hour to configure the jets for the perfect condition (not too lean or too rich) and use the new adjustable stuff to fine tune everything to perfection. I paid less than 70 dollars all together to have my carbs tuned.

- Take advantage of fuel filters. I didn't run one and my carbs were ALL kinds of screwed up from the ethanol and other debris. They cleaned them when they tuned them, so that added to the 70 dollar price tag. They did a very good job at it.

- Install a new air filter setup (I have pods + breather hose filter) with it

- Cut the catalytic converter off. It's a waste of time to have on your bike, and it makes the exhaust sound better. In other words, if you're installing a Yoshi TRS the cat is within that 70mm they tell you to keep. California is the only place they might care and I believe they have some sort of grandfather clause for out-of-state bikes being registered.

- Take off the silencer on the new exhaust.

[knowles]

I have the dynojet kit also with the jardine exhaust, and kn lunch box i think its called. Bike runs awesome, even made it sound different after the jet. I did run it for a little bit without the jet kit. Runs great. Now just have to fix the clutch.

[ghostrider_23]

WOW thanks for the info Dr.McNinja

I hope the Buddha will chime in to respond  (not battle) but explain things.

Good info

[fraze11]

Thanks for the write up, some great info!  Since joining this forum I've found that jetting is one of the most controversial and debated topics.  Before I jetted I had read all the various threads (on this board and others) about improved throttle response, smoothness and so on, the countless threads that Dynojets are no good and Factory Pro kits are better (almost like a Ford/Chevy debate) ... Truthfully, it was almost like a bad movie review, because the build up to jetting was immense for me only to experience a "ho hum" once done.  I've ran my bike in three configs; bone stock, Yoshi Can (no jet), Yoshi can/buddha jets/k&n drop in.  Like yourself, I too had my jetting done professionally and I have to admit, I really dont feel *that* much of a difference.  Hell, I've even read threads where guys have said they did pipes etc didn't jet and it ran BETTER. I dont know if its what jets, who does it, how its done, where you live, climate/temp, riding style...who knows.  For what its worth, thats my experiences on the subject

[Dr.McNinja]

Thanks for the write up, some great info!  Since joining this forum I've found that jetting is one of the most controversial and debated topics.  Before I jetted I had read all the various threads (on this board and others) about improved throttle response, smoothness and so on, the countless threads that Dynojets are no good and Factory Pro kits are better (almost like a Ford/Chevy debate) ... Truthfully, it was almost like a bad movie review, because the build up to jetting was immense for me only to experience a "ho hum" once done.  I've ran my bike in three configs; bone stock, Yoshi Can (no jet), Yoshi can/buddha jets/k&n drop in.  Like yourself, I too had my jetting done professionally and I have to admit, I really dont feel *that* much of a difference.  Hell, I've even read threads where guys have said they did pipes etc didn't jet and it ran BETTER. I dont know if its what jets, who does it, how its done, where you live, climate/temp, riding style...who knows.  For what its worth, thats my experiences on the subject

Mine definitely wasn't my ass-dyno reading. My carbs were gunked up real bad from the PO leaving bad fuel in them, and then me running the liquid they pass off as 87 octane in my bike. To top it off a bone stock GS500 is VERY lean. The dynojet kit took the lean condition out (and thereby fixed a hanging idle problem I had) and the exhaust/air filter combo improved it's breathing. The result wasn't massive HP gains or anything. The throttle is more responsive and the bike feels like it wants to run. It takes less than 20 seconds to start it in Winter (a few seconds of choke is all I need now) and I don't get that "cold bog" you get with a bone stock GS500 in winter. The sound was a bonus, the real gains are that I stripped majority of the EPA crap off the bike and the had the bike properly configured for the climate/weather. I'd imagine that I also improved my engine health over time, since lean conditions while good on EPA ratings are terrible for your engine.

[fraze11]

Now that is something I DID notice...the faster warm ups.  For me, thats the most noticable improvement. 

[ghostrider_23]

Would you guys say that you didn't really need to rejet after adding the exhaust???

I just put a Scorpion exhaust on my bike, it is a brand new bike with (left over 09) only 1400 miles on it and it runs like a top. I don't really want to start messing with something if I don't need to.

What would your input be?

[Dizzledan]

I have an 89' GS500, so the carbs only have a Main jet and a Pilot jet, while newer carbs have a mid jet to help with gas distribution; so perhaps my experience was magnified because of that circumstance. I have a Vance and Hines SS full, and a K&N lunchbox filter. The bike came stock jet setup with the vance and hines, and it ran super lean. After the upgrades and jetting, it pulls from 2-8k RPM very strong, whereas before it kind of just gave a "whatever" when I twisted the throttle. Given the age of my bike, and the maintenance I've done to it, so many different factors could have affected the performance, but at the very least, I feel jetting gave me some mechanical experience.

[mister]

Would you guys say that you didn't really need to rejet after adding the exhaust???

I just put a Scorpion exhaust on my bike, it is a brand new bike with (left over 09) only 1400 miles on it and it runs like a top. I don't really want to start messing with something if I don't need to.

What would your input be?

Contrary to all "must rejet" talk, Twisted did not and had no problems. Even pulled his plugs and photographed them as proof.


Michael

[Dr.McNinja]

Would you guys say that you didn't really need to rejet after adding the exhaust???

I just put a Scorpion exhaust on my bike, it is a brand new bike with (left over 09) only 1400 miles on it and it runs like a top. I don't really want to start messing with something if I don't need to.

What would your input be?

Contrary to all "must rejet" talk, Twisted did not and had no problems. Even pulled his plugs and photographed them as proof.


Michael

I have no idea why you'd want to leave your bike stock jetted even without all of the stuff that would require it. Suzuki did a great job at making sure you couldn't do anything but commute with this bike. Rejetting it makes it much more fun to ride and it actually feels like a real bike.   More power to you though. I just find no sense in leaving ANYTHING factory spec. Especially this bike. It's like the GS500 was put together in the dark.

[Suzuki Stevo]

GS500F's need jetting right off the showroom floor, its because of Emissions and you can thank the EPA for it in America. It's not a secret, it has never been a secret and if you think you can add a pipe and K&N without rejetting your just kidding yourself. I have been rejetting bone stock bikes for over 30 years, and I don't do it because I like the smell of gas.

Bikes from other country's...I don't have a clue if they are lean, rich or constipated, I am only talking about bikes shipped into the USA

[Dr.McNinja]

GS500F's need jetting right off the showroom floor, its because of Emissions and you can thank the EPA for it in America. It's not a secret, it has never been a secret and if you think you can add a pipe and K&N without rejetting your just kidding yourself. I have been rejetting bone stock bikes for over 30 years, and I don't do it because I like the smell of gas.

Bikes from other country's...I don't have a clue if they are lean, rich or constipated, I am only talking about bikes shipped into the USA

This x1000000


It's the bane of all bikes in America. They're all made to be really lean off the lot so that they can pass EPA emissions standards in the strictest state (California) they sell the bike in. The major problem is that for carbed bikes that means taking apart your fresh off-the-lot motorcycle to rejet it, chopping off the catalytic converter, installing better fuel/air flow system (rejetting + better filter), and blocking off the PAIR plates. It's a pretty expensive endeavor just to get your bike to how it should be.

[fraze11]

Would you guys say that you didn't really need to rejet after adding the exhaust???

I just put a Scorpion exhaust on my bike, it is a brand new bike with (left over 09) only 1400 miles on it and it runs like a top. I don't really want to start messing with something if I don't need to.

What would your input be?

You said you only added a can.  On my 09 I ran for almost 2 months with a Yoshi can (everything else stock) while I waited for my jet kit to ship from Bhudda.  Bike ran absolutely perfect, plugs were perfect, no issues at all.  Yes, its incredibly well known that this bike (most bikes) are lean from factory for emissions and jetting is recommeded ... All I'm saying is I didn't (as may others haven't) and everything was fine ... but that could be the can I used.  Do it, ride it and see how it is.  Again, can only.  Once you start doing hi-flo filters and intake mods in conjunction with an exhaust you definaltely NEED to jet, but everyone already knows that.

[ohgood]

Would you guys say that you didn't really need to rejet after adding the exhaust???

I just put a Scorpion exhaust on my bike, it is a brand new bike with (left over 09) only 1400 miles on it and it runs like a top. I don't really want to start messing with something if I don't need to.

What would your input be?

Contrary to all "must rejet" talk, Twisted did not and had no problems. Even pulled his plugs and photographed them as proof.


Michael

I have no idea why you'd want to leave your bike stock jetted even without all of the stuff that would require it. Suzuki did a great job at making sure you couldn't do anything but commute with this bike. Rejetting it makes it much more fun to ride and it actually feels like a real bike.   More power to you though. I just find no sense in leaving ANYTHING factory spec. Especially this bike. It's like the GS500 was put together in the dark.

depending on the country of origin, it may have been.

on the subject of the pro's that jetted and tuned your gs.... how did they 'tune' it ? what is your fuel/air ratio pre/post ?

also, you mentioned more power- how was that measured ? dyne ? gotta chart for pre/post 'tune' ?

[The Buddha]

DrMcninja - you put in dyno and co2 analyser on the bike and got dj dialed in ... the reason the 132 works on the dj is 2 reasons - 1 they have funky numbers - you cannot buy a 132 on the street, its 132.5 ... and they calibrate them differently and 2. the needle is an obstruction in the main, it being thinner in case of DJ is one more reason for the difference.

Its hardly fair to put in that much work on 1 and compare it to one that you haven't.

Then - there is no catalytic converter on a GS. There is a mid pipe with a perforated inner and packing around ... but no cat.
You cut that mid pipe out you wont have a place to fit the muffler without a mid pipe made for it.

I got my jetting tuned on a 89-00 for being literally the richest you can without stumbling and sputtering in the hottest dryest days you are likely to encounter. Max power is a couple sizes leaner. The 04+ formula was a sorta extension of that.

Cool.
Buddha.

[bombshelter13]

I got my jetting tuned on a 89-00 for being literally the richest you can without stumbling and sputtering in the hottest dryest days you are likely to encounter. Max power is a couple sizes leaner. The 04+ formula was a sorta extension of that.

Buddha, are you saying that your jet kits are tuned for HOT weather? If this is the case, do you have one that's tuned for cold weather? I bought your 'standard' kit for a stock 2007, and have been getting a bit of stalling lately at stoplights. Temperatures where I ride have been between -1 and 10 degrees celsius or so, would a different jetting work better in weather this cold?

Possible that this isn't the cause, as there is another issue right now - the mechanic who installed my jets for me neglected to drill/turn the air mixture screws, so maybe that's the cause of the occasional stalling.

[ghostrider_23]

Damn it, just when I think I am ready to got through with this rejetting I start reading these threads about how rejetting has messed up the bike and now it doesn't run right.

[mister]

Damn it, just when I think I am ready to got through with this rejetting I start reading these threads about how rejetting has messed up the bike and now it doesn't run right.

My totally stock 09 does not, nor has it ever, missed a beat.

I am sure there are people who's jetting caused no problems. But, by far, those who rejet seem to have ongoing problems keeping their bikes running smoothly, for little gain from the rejetting. That's my observation.

Michael

[The Buddha]

I got my jetting tuned on a 89-00 for being literally the richest you can without stumbling and sputtering in the hottest dryest days you are likely to encounter. Max power is a couple sizes leaner. The 04+ formula was a sorta extension of that.

Buddha, are you saying that your jet kits are tuned for HOT weather? If this is the case, do you have one that's tuned for cold weather? I bought your 'standard' kit for a stock 2007, and have been getting a bit of stalling lately at stoplights. Temperatures where I ride have been between -1 and 10 degrees celsius or so, would a different jetting work better in weather this cold?

Possible that this isn't the cause, as there is another issue right now - the mechanic who installed my jets for me neglected to drill/turn the air mixture screws, so maybe that's the cause of the occasional stalling.

OK a rich mix will act up in hot weather. I have mine to be the richest it can be so it is likeliest to act up in hot weather. Cold needs richer mix, I jetted my bike in the dead of canada's winter. I dont think it needs to be any richer.

You have a stock 07 with the right kit - 20 pilots, 132.5 mains and 1 washer - and I guess the stock turns on mix screw ...

How did it run in summer - if its acting up when it got colder you're lean - possibly look for air getting in or an exhaust leak etc.

I would possibly remove the washer under the needle if you are rich in that 1/2 way open range.

Yea air screws should be opened up to 3 though, you can be lean and that is the biggest reason for stalling.

Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

Damn it, just when I think I am ready to got through with this rejetting I start reading these threads about how rejetting has messed up the bike and now it doesn't run right.

I thought you were goign to jet over the weekend - you have my number - call me as you need to when jetting but this comming weekend - I am out on thanksgiving, other days are good.
Cool.
Srinath.