clipons and wiki musings

[Phil B]

I did a little tweaking of http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Handlebars, after i came across a video of a very custom gs500.

Odd thing is, he has (among other things) added vortex clipons, below the triple clamp, not above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKL22BPrp1I at 1:10seconds in, for a semi-decent view.

Wonder how well that worked.
Wonder if the BIKE actually worked, since there's no vids of it in motion?

[Watevaman]

 Not sure if it's just me, but I can't watch the video. Says it's a malformed video ID, did you copy the whole URL?

[Phil B]

sorry, edited to fix

[tt_four]

I used to have clipons mounted under the top triples. mine weren't vortex, I think the were from an 89 cbr600, can't remember for sure though. Thy worked fine. Had to reroute a few cables but that was about it. Ooh, some new $15 headlight brackets from ebay.

It handled great, the handling was completely solid on the highway and on backroads. Felt more like a sportbike in terms of stability and using your bodyweight to move the bike around, as opposed to the upright handlebars where you just throw the GS around like a bmx bike. You could feel it in your back after a while, but on the plus side the wind barely bugged me on the highway anymore. There was a huge difference in how much windblast I felt at 70mph between the two different handlebars. I know you'd think you could just lean forward slightly with the stock bars and get the same affect, but it doesn't work the same.

[Phil B]

aha so there's the headlight thing.


Could you give more details please?

eg: was it E or F model, and what *exactly* did you need to do for headlight?

[Dr.McNinja]

What I personally hate is that people LOVE the idea of clip-ons on this bike (and I did at one time too) but no one seems to realize that the bars, pegs, and rake are incredibly important to overall rider comfort and motorcycle handling.

The reason you can throw a RR around so easily is because of the rake.  Clip-ons complement this and pegs force more of your weight onto the handlebars so it requires less strength to throw left or right because most of you is already on the handlebars to begin with.

If the person who made this actually designed it correctly by changing the fork rake, throwing clip-ons under it, and altering the peg position (which wouldn't be out of his league by his mechanical demonstration in this video) I have tons of respect for him. However, why not just buy a RR then? Secondly, why throw a 2000+ dollar turbo on a bike that is sub-10000 USD off the lot? The horsepower gains couldn't of been good enough to beat an RR that has an engine tuned for the application...

[Phil B]

What I personally hate is that people LOVE the idea of clip-ons on this bike (and I did at one time too) but no one seems to realize that the bars, pegs, and rake are incredibly important to overall rider comfort and motorcycle handling.

The reason you can throw a RR around so easily is because of the rake.
...

I personally can "throw around" my gs500 pretty durn fast at 40mph as-is.
I think the #1 issue is really "size of rider vs size of bike".
Being 5'6", the gs fits me *really well*.
The fact that I've lowered the handlebars a little, helps a bit too, I'm sure. But there's nothing "wrong" with the rake/fork of the gs500 for that sort of thing.

Could it be slightly better?  I'm sure. But putting clip ons to add that little extra fun factor, sounds like a great idea to me.
If I had two bikes, i would *definitely* put clipons on my gs500.  But as it is, it's also a commute vehicle, so I compromise.

[tt_four]

forgot to add this before. Mine was a 91 e model so it was already naked. These are the kind of headlight brackets I used. They say they only go up to 36mm forks, and the GS has 37mm. Couldn't find any for the right size forks, but they're easy to bend to the right shape, and I replaced the bolts with longer ones, no problems.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chopper-Bobber-Chrome-Side-Mount-Headlight-Bracket-/160741122012?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item256ceadfdc#ht_2479wt_1163



Dr Mcninja, some people just like the riding position. It's not for the handling, I never really hear people complaining about the gs handing, some people just want the sportbike riding position. I don't think it's too much more complicated than that.

[Phil B]

Thanks for the reply, tt.
So, 'E' models have an issue with headlight bracket. But what about 'F'  ?

[tt_four]

The F model wouldn't have the same issue. The E model has brackets that run the full length of the fork from the top triple clamp to the bottom triple clamp, and would be in the way if you tried to fit the clipons under there. Your options are to replace them entirely, or cut out a chunk the height of the handlebar clamp, and have them rewelded. The F model has an entirely different headlight mounting.

Are you making your F a naked bike, or are you looking to put the clipons under the top triple on your F model? The issue you'd run into is the handlebar hitting your fairing if you left it on because there isn't enough room. Your hands would be too low to clear it.

[Phil B]

Hmm. Thanks for that clarification.

What about the longstanding wiki claim, however, that "Clip ons from the 1989 GS500 can be fitted without modification onto any year GS500." ?

(edit)
Aha... I finally dug up specifics, and a nice picture, to boot.  they work. wiki updated.
Courtesy of an ancient picture from addidasguy

[Phil B]

I noticed that the 89 "clipons" are actualy about the same position as other "low" replacement bars.
Can anyone tell us which tends to have more vibes? the suzuki clipons, or the suburban machinery full bars?

[adidasguy]

FYI:  OEM bar end weights are 10.4 oz.  The OEM clip-on bars are each 12.6 oz. with most mass at the hand-end due to the steel slug for the bar end screw.
So that's 23oz on each side and most of the mass is at the bar end. If you have lighter bars of aluminum or aluminum bar ends (which are only decorative), you'll get vibration.

I have 89's on one bike and the European ones on 2 others. Never feel anything.

Light weight bars "to save weight" will give more vibration. Like someone said somewhere on the board: "If you want to shave off a pound or two of weight, take a big dump before you go riding."

[tt_four]

Ooh, forgot to mention vibrations. If you put clipon bars under the top triples, so they're mounted straight to the fork tubes, you'll get a good bit of vibrations through the bars. It's a considerable difference from the normal handlebars, or even 89 clipons or suburban machinery bars. The stock handlebar mounts have rubber bushings under them and it damps out pretty much all the vibrations that will otherwise shoot straight through the handlebars. If you keep moving it's not too bad, but if you're just cruising, your hands can start to go a little numb.

[Phil B]

Ooh, forgot to mention vibrations. If you put clipon bars under the top triples, so they're mounted straight to the fork tubes, you'll get a good bit of vibrations through the bars. It's a considerable difference from the normal handlebars, or even 89 clipons or suburban machinery bars.

waitwhat?  89 clipons still are "mounted straight to the fork tubes" (or are they?)
So how are they different?

[adidasguy]

The 89's and the Euro's are mounted to the top plate. The top plate is bolted to the top triple with 2 bolts in rubber cushions. There are 4 additional small cubes of rubber between the top plate and the top triple to dampen vibrations.
The forks do not touch the top plate.

[Phil B]

Thanks for the details. but.. Umm.. could you get a closer shot, please?
The pic makes it look like there is no "clip"ing on at all... it looks more like a custom top plate with holes for the handlebar pegs?
Or is that what it really is?

(and btw, could you give a link to "the Euros", so I can add that to the wiki as well please?)

[Dizzledan]

Thanks for the details. but.. Umm.. could you get a closer shot, please?
The pic makes it look like there is no "clip"ing on at all... it looks more like a custom top plate with holes for the handlebar pegs?
Or is that what it really is?

Those are the stock 89 clip-ons. What TT was talking about earlier was using aftermarket clipons like the tomaselli or woodcrafts that clip to the forks.

Adidasguy, I've seen on one of your bikes you have risers for the 89 plate clipons? Where'd your source those?

[adidasguy]

The "clip-on" OEM bars come in 3 varieties. There is one type produced only in 1989. This was sold world wide for the GS500 as an option. There are 2 other types which were sold in Europe and Canada from 1990-2000. These we refer to as the Euro Type 1 and Type 2. Technically, the European parts catalog has the 1989 bars as figure 41. The "Type 1" are figure 41A and the "Type 2" are figure 41B. We use the numbers because only recently did I acquire a European German parts catalog that identified the parts and had the part numbers.

All 3 types will fit on the 1989-2000 tanks. The 89's are the lowest and will be the front or right most set in the photographs. The type-1 will be in the middle. While it looks dark, it is because that set is painted for one of my bikes to match the color of the gauge holder on the newer bikes. The back one or left one is the type-2. All were silver. All bars were black. The top plates are the same (although later ones had a different mold with less material on the under side).

NOTE: These do not interfere with the fairings on the "F" models.

The 89's and the Euro's are mounted to the top plate. The top plate is bolted to the top triple with 2 bolts in rubber cushions. There are 4 additional small cubes of rubber between the top plate and the top triple to dampen vibrations.
The forks do not touch the top plate.

If you are changing from standard bars to the clip-ons, you will need to change the top plate. The top plates are directly interchangeable. That is, while different, they bolt on the same. Remove your standard bars (4 bolts on the handlebar holders). Remove the instrument bracket (2 bolts). Then remove the top plate by removing the 2 bolts hidden under the handle bars. THESE ARE ON TIGHT!. While you can use the same bolts to mount the clip-on top plate, there are chrome plated bolts with shallower heads for the clip-ons. You can order this from any Suzuki parts house or a parts-whore on GStwins.com. Finish it off with a little chrome plastic cap on the allen heads of the bolts. Use the ones you took off of the 4 bolts that held your standard bars or get new ones.

Reverse the process if going from clip-ons to standard bars.

In the process of going either way, move your controls from one set of bars to the other. Also insure you have compatible bar ends. Clip-ons use a screw (Remember the screw hole does bottom out!). Some standard bars use a screw and some use an expanding rubber bushing to hold the bar ends on. Insure the index hole is in the correct place for the left and right controls. You may have to drill index holes where you find the controls most to your liking.

NOTE: Pay careful attention to the brake switch contacts. They are in danger of pressing on the clip and shorting out. You may suddenly find all power goes out when you press the front brake. The switch contacts are shorting to the clip. Replace the fuse, bend the contacts a little or rotate the controls. You nay chose to file a notch in the back side of the clip to make more space for the brake switch contacts. It is OK to do that. It will not show as it is hidden by the master cylinder. Do not confuse the spare fuse with the one that is in use.

Note: When you swap top plates, do not forget the four small rubber bumpers that go between the top plate and the top of the triple. These help dampen vibrations.

The same clip-on top plate will work for all three types of clips.

BARS
All bars are steel with a heavy steel slug in the end for the bar end screw. The screw hole bottoms out! If you screw in bar ends and the screw seems stuck, take it out and get a shorter screw. Try to screw in further and you will break off the screw.

The 1989 bars can be identified with one notch. They are 10" long and weigh approx. 12.6oz. The European bars have 2 notches, are approx. 10.5" long and weigh slightly more due to the extra length. I have seen quite a variation in bar length. Probably due to the factory that cut them. The European bars can be used on 89 clips. The 89 bars can be used on the European clips by filing the 2nd notch.

Left and right bars differ in the location of the index hole for the controls. Bars can switch sides by drilling a new index hole in the appropriate location.

The middle is a 1989 bar with one notch. On the right is a 1990-2000 European bar. The left shows the bar end slug with the screw hole - which bottoms out! It does not go all the way through!


CLIPS
All of the clips attach to the top plate with 2 screws. All attach the same and in that regards, they are interchangeable. All of the screws have not been put in these examples.
On the right is the 1989 clip. It is the shortest of all three. It is easily identified by the 2 screws that hold the bar are on the back side. The European ones have the screws on the front side (which you will see in later photographs).
NOTE: There is a left and a right for each type of clip. Left and right clips are not interchangeable. The bars, as mentioned, are interchangeable with the drilling of the index hole (for left or right) and addition of a 2nd notch when using 89's in the European clips.


Height
The 1989's are the lowest. The Type-1 are middle and the Type-2 are the highest and have the most downward angle. The 1989's would give you the most aggressive riding position.

In Europe, the Type-1's are often referred to as "shorties" or "short clips" and the type-2 are "Talls". This is important to know if buying some on ebay. It can be hard to identify them in a photograph. Due to the different screw position, the 1989's are easy to identify.

The following photos have Type 2 on the left or rear, Type 1 in the middle and 1989's on the right or front. Note the different heights and bar angles.






Fitting on 2001+ Bikes
Because of the close angles of these bars, they do not all fit on the larger 2001+ tanks. You can see the Type-1's have the least angle (middle set). These WILL fit. However, they are extremely close on the right side and if not carefully positioned, can hit the tank. At the least, you can pinch a thumb on a full right turn. There is adequate space on the left. I do not suggest trying the type-2's. Note the extreme angle (top set). These are virtually impossible to fit on the newer 2001+ tanks.



The Euro Type-1. They fit the larger tank - but are close to the tank. Pay careful attention to the brake switch contacts. They are in danger of pressing on the clip and shorting out. You may suddenly find all power goes out when you press the front brake. The switch contacts are shorting to the clip. Replace the fuse, bend the contacts a little or rotate the controls. You nay chose to file a notch in the back side of the clip to make more space for the brake switch contacts. It is OK to do that. It will not show as it is hidden by the master cylinder.


Because of the angles, the 1989's will not fit. They can fit if you bend the bars (which is hard to do) about 10 degrees out. They can fit if you shim the clip with a washer under the outer holding screw only as shown here. You may chose to shim the Type-1's to get a little more clearance on a 2001+ tank. You do not need to shim any of them for the smaller 1989-2000 tanks. All 3 types fit just fine.




The 1989's on the larger tank with one washer shim as shown. They fit. Close - but it is a fit - without having to bend the bars.


PARTS CATALOG
For your reference, here are the pages from the German Suzuki GS500 parts catalog for 1993-1995.
NOTE: In reading the parts catalog notes, the 1989's were 1989 only (model K). The Type-1 (fig. 41 A) are 1990-1993 (models L, M, N and P). The Type-2 (Fig 41 B) started in 1994 with model R.






Here are what brand new old stock clip-ons look like. I was lucky and found a set stashed away somewhere in the world.



...and here they are mounted on my 1992 GS500...


I happened upon some new old stock bars. The 1990-2000 bars are still available in Europe if you google the part numbers.

[codajastal]

WOW thanks for the invaluable info on this. Now I know mine are genuine 1989 clipons and I can change the heights by replacing the model type without any trouble for a more upright riding position. Without your info I would be lost.
adidasguy you are a legend