Mineral Oil?

[Pelikan]

Kay, so I figured since everyone says go cheap I'd go like bargain basement clearance rack with the oil.  Got Bel*Ray EXL 10W40.  When the stuff got here it says MINERAL oil, although I'm not seeing anything about friction modifiers or any of that.  Says suitable for 4-stroke air/liquid cooled and wet clutch.

I've poked around a little bit and it doesn't seem like mineral oil is necessarily a problem, and I think the EXL might be petroleum based?  Any thoughts on this one?  I mean I'm pretty much stuck with this stuff now...don't wanna just toss it if I can get away with using it, and all the reviews of this particular brand/product seem good.

[twocool]

Kay, so I figured since everyone says go cheap I'd go like bargain basement clearance rack with the oil.  Got Bel*Ray EXL 10W40.  When the stuff got here it says MINERAL oil, although I'm not seeing anything about friction modifiers or any of that.  Says suitable for 4-stroke air/liquid cooled and wet clutch.

I've poked around a little bit and it doesn't seem like mineral oil is necessarily a problem, and I think the EXL might be petroleum based?  Any thoughts on this one?  I mean I'm pretty much stuck with this stuff now...don't wanna just toss it if I can get away with using it, and all the reviews of this particular brand/product seem good.

Dude!  Petroleum IS a mineral.  Same stuff!  Mineral oil = petroleum oil.

10w40 normally does NOT have friction modifiers.  Look for the label on the bottle.  There is a little round insignia.  If it says "energy conserving" is has friction modifiers, and don't use.  But most likely it does not... so ok to use.

Sometimes we say "mineral oil" and mean "straight mineal oil" meaning not multi viscosity, and not detergent.  Actually i think the term is "dispersant".  The idea of dispersant is to suspend the little particles of crap in the oil, so it gets filtered, and it comes out with t he oil during oil change...the crap does not build up on the internal engine parts...

So straight mineral oil is often used for engine break in....it allows the metal parts to "wear" a bit and break in. 

After break in you can go to an oil which is ashless, dispersant, and multi viscosity....

Cookie

[twocool]

Kay, so I figured since everyone says go cheap I'd go like bargain basement clearance rack with the oil.  Got Bel*Ray EXL 10W40.  When the stuff got here it says MINERAL oil, although I'm not seeing anything about friction modifiers or any of that.  Says suitable for 4-stroke air/liquid cooled and wet clutch.

I've poked around a little bit and it doesn't seem like mineral oil is necessarily a problem, and I think the EXL might be petroleum based?  Any thoughts on this one?  I mean I'm pretty much stuck with this stuff now...don't wanna just toss it if I can get away with using it, and all the reviews of this particular brand/product seem good.

http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-exl-mineral-4t-engine-oil

If this is the crap you got it is EXACTLY what you should be using.  Meets all motorcycle specs etc.

Bel Ray is good brand name....

Can cost like $8 quart, so if you got discount you did good...

In this context Bel Ray call it "mineral" as opposed to "synthetic"

Cookie

[Pelikan]

Hey man that's the stuff.  I literally looked for the cheapest 10W40 when I ordered some misc parts and this was it on clearance.  Got it for $20 and change for 4 quarts.

[dam]

According to the linked web page it meets all the specs. Your good as gold

[burning1]

I prefer the term conventional oil. Mineral oil is generally used to describe something completely unsuitable for motorcycle use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil

[slipperymongoose]

Bel ray is an excellent brand your into a winner there. I use there no fling chain lube and it's brilliant. But yeah I'm some time honored words use what you like it will either work or not work.

[ohgood]

it's a suzuki. soooozoooooki. it doesn't care if it's walmart brand, or $24/quart super synthetic bullshit. it will not run faster, stronger, cooler, or longer by putting the high dollar stuff in it.


so long as it does not have friction modifiers in it, it won't effect the clutch. even if it does, you can drain it and add the right stuff, and it will stop slipping in  short order. there will be little to no damage. the gs clutch will last a lifetime of abuse.

the only difference i have noticed in oil is the 5w30 stuff shifts smoother. 5w30 is NOT THE OIL TO USE in the gs, especially in summer time. dump in whatever 20w50 you find, cheap, and ride. you'll need a 1/2 a quart per 500 mile day of high-speed (interstate) riding. yes, this is normal. check it when you get gas each time and don't starve it, it will run forever.

end

[burning1]

it's a suzuki. soooozoooooki. it doesn't care if it's walmart brand, or $24/quart super synthetic bullshit. it will not run faster, stronger, cooler, or longer by putting the high dollar stuff in it.

Actually, it kind of does. The GS500 tends to consume oil. A good low volatility synthetic like the Amsoil will last longer before you get dangerously low. It'll also help protect the crank bearings, which seem to be a weak point of this engine.

I have UOA from my other bike showing what an incredible difference exists between the good synthetics and the conventional oils. I ran one fill of group II oil in that bike, and the numbers were never the same. I went from "sure, run your oil another 3000 miles" to "holy shaZam!, your engine is about to explode. You should probably pull it apart" in one fill.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325443

With that said, more than anything with the GS, it's important to check the oil level regularly. IMO, most of the dead engines were allowed to run low at some point.

[ohgood]

it's a suzuki. soooozoooooki. it doesn't care if it's walmart brand, or $24/quart super synthetic bullshit. it will not run faster, stronger, cooler, or longer by putting the high dollar stuff in it.

The GS500 tends to consume oil.

IMO, most of the dead engines were allowed to run low at some point.

Those two points I completely agree with. Interesting comments from the guys on the hayabusa forums about wasting money on oil analysis. This one is my favorite:


" What a waste of money.

As long as it can wheelie over 100mph who cares what the oil analysis is. "


I suppose we could all pay an extra $30 every 1000 miles to check if another $60 oil change was due or not.... or just change it every 2-3000 and a new filter every other change after all, in 10000 miles of riding and testing, you coulda put another gs engine (from ebay) on the shelf.

Hold the phone, I think I smell my tires dry rotting. Better go ask a tire distributor if a new set is in order.

[slipperymongoose]

Speaking of analysis I would do it maybe once a year just to see how the engine is wearing, you would probably do it twice or three times.

[burning1]

I suppose we could all pay an extra $30 every 1000 miles to check if another $60 oil change was due or not.... or just change it every 2-3000 and a new filter every other change after all, in 10000 miles of riding and testing, you coulda put another gs engine (from ebay) on the shelf.

I'm not getting UOA so I know whether or not it's time to change the oil. I get UOA because I want to understand what's going on inside my engine, and I want to understand how the oil affects the engine. I'm tired of seeing people spout off about oil when they really don't have any data to support their opinions. If you're passionate about the subject, you really should be doing analysis.

...because the data is there: oil quality makes a difference. And hell, I don't need UOA to notice that the burn rate of a Group II or Group V oil is twice that of a good group IV synthetic.

Also, my time is valuable. If UOA costs $30 and permits me to double my interval, not only do I come out ahead on cash, I also come out ahead on knowledge.

[ivany]

I suppose we could all pay an extra $30 every 1000 miles to check if another $60 oil change was due or not.... or just change it every 2-3000 and a new filter every other change after all, in 10000 miles of riding and testing, you coulda put another gs engine (from ebay) on the shelf.

I'm not getting UOA so I know whether or not it's time to change the oil. I get UOA because I want to understand what's going on inside my engine, and I want to understand how the oil affects the engine. I'm tired of seeing people spout off about oil when they really don't have any data to support their opinions. If you're passionate about the subject, you really should be doing analysis.

...because the data is there: oil quality makes a difference. And hell, I don't need UOA to notice that the burn rate of a Group II or Group V oil is twice that of a good group IV synthetic.

Also, my time is valuable. If UOA costs $30 and permits me to double my interval, not only do I come out ahead on cash, I also come out ahead on knowledge.

I remember reading that thread a while back! Is your 1300 still OK? The UOA looked...frightening. I think I'd crap my pants if I got one back like that

I do have a hard time believing that it was the dino oil that "ruined" the engine. Perhaps design/manufacturing flaw, combined with the dino oil?

I personally run whatever xW40 is cheapest and not energy conserving in my GS. The engine is from 40 years ago, so any oil available today should be better than what it was designed for. For track use a better oil is probably a good idea though.

I want to do a UOA on my GS, just for shits and giggles. I haven't seen any posted, have you done a UOA on yours yet?

[burning1]

I don't know what to suggest other than the oil. My riding habits didn't change, and the engine went from being in great shape, to showing alarming UOA after running the Rotella stuff.

The clutch on the bike is giving me problems, so I'm thinking that's where the high aluminum numbers are coming from.

Engine it's self seems to be okay - compression numbers are excellent, and wasn't seeing any surprising wear when I checked the valve lash - everything was in spec, and the bearing surfaces on the cam and head looked fine.

Unfortunately, there's not too much I can do about it. Pulling the engine on that bike is a massive undertaking, and I'm not willing to do it based on UOA numbers alone.

[ivany]

I don't know what to suggest other than the oil. My riding habits didn't change, and the engine went from being in great shape, to showing alarming UOA after running the Rotella stuff.

The clutch on the bike is giving me problems, so I'm thinking that's where the high aluminum numbers are coming from.

Engine it's self seems to be okay - compression numbers are excellent, and wasn't seeing any surprising wear when I checked the valve lash - everything was in spec, and the bearing surfaces on the cam and head looked fine.

Unfortunately, there's not too much I can do about it. Pulling the engine on that bike is a massive undertaking, and I'm not willing to do it based on UOA numbers alone.

Yeah, clutch causing aluminum is possible - I think the clutch plates are made of that right?

In general bike UOAs seem "messier" than car ones. Probably has to do with the transmission and clutch using the same oil. If the compression numbers are good I can't see why I'd worry about it.

[burning1]

Will have to pull the clutch apart to confirm, but I believe the plates are steel. Not sure if there's aluminum in the fiber plates though. It's possible I'm experiencing clutch basket wear, which would suck because a basket replacement will cost me ~$1400 at OEM prices. :|