Getting to the bottom of my idle problem

[vasama]

Forget about the shims. Talked to the local dealer and they're not that bad. 8 bucks a piece and I can swap them if I don't get the right size.

I would still appreciate, though, if someone could enlighten me on this idea that tight shim clearance would cause the intake valves not to close completely, therefore creating a somewhat constant supply of air/fuel, contributing big time to the hanging idle problem...? Yes? No?

Thanks again

[craigs449]

Forget about the shims. Talked to the local dealer and they're not that bad. 8 bucks a piece and I can swap them if I don't get the right size.

I would still appreciate, though, if someone could enlighten me on this idea that tight shim clearance would cause the intake valves not to close completely, therefore creating a somewhat constant supply of air/fuel, contributing big time to the hanging idle problem...? Yes? No?

Thanks again

Valves tighten over time due to them seating further into the head (we are talking tiny increments here).  What you are referring to is the valves not opening quite enough (or long enough duration) to allow the proper air/fuel into the combustion chamber. If your valves were hanging open, there would be no sealed combustion chamber, and therefore you would have no running bike.  The biggest sign of valves out of adjustment is hard cold starting.  As for the hanging idle, valves are most likely not the issue......hanging/high idle is indictaive of a lean condition that could be due to partially clogged jets/petcock, or cracked/loose manifold (Think, too much air, not enough fuel).

[vasama]

Creeping ever sooo slowly towards completion...

Motor is up. Last night I connected the battery and did an electric systems check. It is a go!
Still have a little piece of plastic to finish painting, and I believe I'll be starting the bike before this week is over. That's when I'll post pics.

On the meantime, I have this little nugget left over. I forgot where it goes. Can someone please help me? What is this, and where does it go? (it looks like a bushing or spacer. It has no threads). It is about 1 inch tall, a bit under half inch outside diameter on the narrow side, and about 1 1/8 diameter on the large base.

Thanks as always...

[bombsquad83]

Looks like part number 5 on this fiche.  That is the front wheel spacer.

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/FRONT_WHEEL/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/34/Year/1993/ModelID/7106/Model/GS500E/GroupID/307538/Group/FRONT_WHEEL

[vasama]

Can't be from the front wheel. I never took it apart, plus tne internal diameter of this part is only 8.5 mm... it has to be something else...

[bombsquad83]

Found it!  Part number 6.  It's for the exhaust mount.

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/MUFFLER/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/34/Year/1993/ModelID/7106/Model/GS500E/GroupID/307541/Group/MUFFLER

[vasama]

That sure looks like it. I'll check tonight when I get home. Thanks so much!

[Kijona]

At some point this bike will run...right? 

Seriously, though, I'm glad you're getting it worked out. Hopefully you won't be plagued by any more carb problems. 

Good luck!

[vasama]

Yes it will run. In fact, the bike is assembled but for the plastics and seat. Waiting on the small plastic on the back to dry its clear coat. I'll be cranking the bike, maybe tonight. I'm really nervous about it. I obviously want the high idle problem to go away. Essentially, what I did for that was to de-rust the tank, cook the carbs, add a real, and tight, cap on the left vacuum port, checked and fixed valve clearances, and added an in-line fuel filter.

I tell you, if this thing comes back to life with the high idle, I'm gonna go bananas. Oh, by the way, through this process I also found that my air filter, of all things, was really, really overdue to be changed. Does a clogged air filter (air starvation) cause a high idle?

Mauricio

[SS Adrenaline]

Yes it will run. In fact, the bike is assembled but for the plastics and seat. Waiting on the small plastic on the back to dry its clear coat. I'll be cranking the bike, maybe tonight. I'm really nervous about it. I obviously want the high idle problem to go away. Essentially, what I did for that was to de-rust the tank, cook the carbs, add a real, and tight, cap on the left vacuum port, checked and fixed valve clearances, and added an in-line fuel filter.

I tell you, if this thing comes back to life with the high idle, I'm gonna go bananas. Oh, by the way, through this process I also found that my air filter, of all things, was really, really overdue to be changed. Does a clogged air filter (air starvation) cause a high idle?

Mauricio

I would think not.  Less air intake should richen up the mixture and cause the idle to decrease.  I may be wrong on this though.

[Kijona]

Yes it will run. In fact, the bike is assembled but for the plastics and seat. Waiting on the small plastic on the back to dry its clear coat. I'll be cranking the bike, maybe tonight. I'm really nervous about it. I obviously want the high idle problem to go away. Essentially, what I did for that was to de-rust the tank, cook the carbs, add a real, and tight, cap on the left vacuum port, checked and fixed valve clearances, and added an in-line fuel filter.

I tell you, if this thing comes back to life with the high idle, I'm gonna go bananas. Oh, by the way, through this process I also found that my air filter, of all things, was really, really overdue to be changed. Does a clogged air filter (air starvation) cause a high idle?

Mauricio

I was just playing with you.

Valve clearances fixed is a good start. Air filter being clogged will kill gas mileage and make it harder for the bike to idle properly - more restriction on idle means the motor is having to work harder with its given vacuum to suck fuel and air in. Under higher RPM loads, the motor will just suck in more fuel, essentially causing the mixture to become more and more rich. Eventually, if it gets bad enough, you might foul your plugs. Only if it's really, really bad, though.

To answer your question...no. A clogged air filter will only cause the bike to struggle to idle.

Where are you located Vasama? If all else fails, I have a whole mess of carb parts (thanks to Adidasguy) and I could rebuild your carbs for you and go over them. I'd only charge you shipping.

[vasama]

Kijona's reply to a recent post got me thinking about the infamous "vacuum" o-ring. I always thought that the one in my carbs was kind of small for the space it occupies. Another thing that I wonder is its function in my particular type of carbs, since there's nothing coming/going through the center of the o-ring. Oh, well, I can live without understanding that one.

Anyways, I thougt, what if my high idle was caused by an inappropriate o-ring? It would make sense, since I couldn't find any vacuum leaks using the WD-40 method. So I went to Harbor Freight, which happens to be three blocks from my house, and got the kit.

This first pic shows the old o-ring sitting in the carb:



This is the new one. About the same diameter, but clearly thicker:



Here they are, side by side. The thin one is the old one, and the thick one is the one I put there.



I'm starting the bike tomorrow. I couldn't tonight, because I decided to paint the exhaust as well, and the paint still feels fresh. I know there's a procedure to cure it, but, still, I decided to wait until the morning. Tank is up with fresh fuel, battery is full of charge, all electrical systems are go. I'm excited and a bit anxious about tomorrow...

[Kijona]

You bought nitrile or gas-resistant o-rings, right? You don't want those buggers melting inside your carb, believe me.

Otherwise, yes, that can cause a problem. A vacuum leak there would be very hard to get at to diagnose.

Please let us know!

[Rubicon]

Hey Vasama how'd it go?! I read the whole thread and now i'm eager to hear!

[vasama]

Yes, the o-rings were Nitrile, but on with more important news....;

SHE LIVES!!! SHE LIVES!!!

Cheers, everybody that helped one way or another!!



It might be early to celebrate, but, I started it (on the very first try, too). It idled right while on choke. It maintained appropriate idle as I slid the choke off. I rode it. Smooth idling. A bit high, but not because of internal issues, but simply a throttle screw adjustment thing. I was able to set it to just under 2K RPM's. Rode for about 1/2 hour. No change with idling. All is good. Final pictures will be taken tomorrow with good lighting. Oh, I'll also ride it a bit longer tomorrow to confirm that the carbs are fine. For now, I'm happy.

Tomorrow, pics and the conclusion to this thread.

[Kijona]

Yes, the o-rings were Nitrile, but on with more important news....;

SHE LIVES!!! SHE LIVES!!!

Cheers, everybody that helped one way or another!!



It might be early to celebrate, but, I started it (on the very first try, too). It idled right while on choke. It maintained appropriate idle as I slid the choke off. I rode it. Smooth idling. A bit high, but not because of internal issues, but simply a throttle screw adjustment thing. I was able to set it to just under 2K RPM's. Rode for about 1/2 hour. No change with idling. All is good. Final pictures will be taken tomorrow with good lighting. Oh, I'll also ride it a bit longer tomorrow to confirm that the carbs are fine. For now, I'm happy.

Tomorrow, pics and the conclusion to this thread.

I'm very glad to hear that it's working now dude. It's been a long, arduous journey for you but I think we can tentatively say that you are out of the woods!  

Now you just have to decide what you want to do to it next.

[vasama]

So, here's my last post in this thread (unless more questions arise...)

The bike is running really nice! The idling is awesome! I'm no longer embarrassed by high idle when stopping at lights.

The specific things I did to solve this problem were:

1. De-rusted the tank (painful bb's+vinegar, but at the end, it was a radiator shop that did it for me)
2. Cleaned all fuel lines.
3. Added an in-line fuel filter.
4. Soaked the carbs (fully dismantled) in Pinesol for a couple of days.
5. Boiled the carbs. Twice.
6. Cleared water (from the boiling) from the carbs with WD40.
7. Blew compressed air through all carb holes.
8. While the engine was down (because I decided to powder coat the frame) I checked and fixed valve clearances. Mine were awfully tight, both intake and exhaust.
9. Replaced the "vacuum" o-rings at the top of the carbs for thicker ones (Nitrile, from Harbor Freight).

In the end, I suspect it was always down to those small o-rings. Too bad I didn't trouble shoot step by step, but I have a hunch that it was those little buggers that were the wrong size.

It seems like the Pinesol didn't damage the carbs. However, I'm not sure about the benefit of that step. I think that just the boiling water was more than enough for a deep cleaning.

I'm posting more pics of my process in the projects section. I'll just post this one here showing the finished bike.

One last time, thanks to all that took time to give me advise along the way.

Mauricio

[Kijona]

Wow, nice looking bike man!

[codajastal]

awesome bike