K&L Float Needle Valves Failed

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I rebuilt my carbs almost 2 years ago with a K&L carb rebuild kit. it worked great up until yesterday when i tried to take the bike out of storage.

the carbs and the air filter just flooded with gas. i suspected the needle valves and took the carbs out for inspection. the o-rings and gaskets looked fine but the rubber tip on the needle was done for.

the tip was crushed and dented into the shape of the seat. it wasn't huge problem since i had a couple spares but 2 yrs seems to be a pretty short life for those.

anybody else have trouble with the k&l parts?

[bombsquad83]

Yes.  My K&L float needles were not the proper size and never worked.

[Legnd]

Great, I have 2 K&L rebuild kits coming... Thankfully I need them more for the o rings than the needles... Hopefully.

[bombsquad83]

If I had to do it over again, I would find a different source for the o-rings for cheaper.  Then I would order OEM float bowl gaskets and needle valve sets.

[The Buddha]

OK I might as well pitch in here - not that I have personally used K&N stuff so I'd keep it general.
A lot of the new generation rubber parts are made in china. If you bought parts from many of the large volume guys like K&N, and that one from canada and the famous Mikesxs for xs650 parts with which I have first hand experience, their rubber crap is really substandard.

It looks great and well, when you're missing the part period they seem to be the answer, however the grommets - heck not even 2 years and they dont even get gasoline on em, and they disintegrate. Now I've also had metal parts from mikesxs turn out to be out of spec, like an ignition/charging rotor not trigger the ignition cos its an 8th too short - WTF an 1/8" is a mile when dealing with metal engine parts ...

Plastic parts from china again mikesxs is my source seems to be of excellent quality, the caveat there is that they need to be cleaned with a razor blade cos they have a ton of moulding flash, especially on the inside where the terminals go, cos plastic between spade male/female connectors, well it acts like a condom and prevents electricity from going through.

I wonder if the suzuki parts are chinese or they make em in japan like they used to. Well I know the mikuni jets are made in japan, the earthquake/tsunami/nuclear disaster seems to have put a huge kink in the jets I am trying to find.

Cool.
Buddha.

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yeh they are crap. i'll still use the orings and such but i'm going to order oem needle valves from now on.

[adidasguy]

Let's remember that just because one person has a problem, it does not mean everyone has a problem. If that were the case, we would be hearing a lot about it.

Failure of rubber parts can be crappy rubber or crap on the gas.

Ever pay attention to the vacuum petcock problems? Seems a couple people have a problem and now everyone reading it runs in fear like Chicken Little. The truth is that few of us have had problems. When there are problems, usually it is age - like a 20 year old petcock. Sure the rubber might wear out in 20 years.

Needles no longer fit? Could be a build up of crap. Needle points are now smashed? Bike was sitting for a long time. That and other problems with rubber or delicate moving parts sitting in year old gas would not surprise me.

So let's not all rush to the belief that K&L is bad or anything is bad because of one or two people with problems after a bike sat in storage for a long time. Maybe the bike was not properly prepared for storage?

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fwiw my bike was properly stored. stabil in the gas, carbs drained, engine run until empty, tires raised etc etc.

i installed those K&L parts less than two years ago. the petcock always stays on the ON position to relieve the needle valves of excess pressure when not in use. plus it only stayed in storage for 4 months.

i know it doesn't happen all the time but both needle valves in the carbs were installed at the same time and failed together.

[bombsquad83]

In no way am I saying that these parts won't work for anyone else.  I'm just sharing my experience that they were slightly different size than the parts that were in my bike before (most likely OEM, but I don't know that either), and they did not work.  That's all.  Just something to look out for so they don't end up with problems out of nowhere with new parts.

Off topic since you brought it up...for the record, my petcock did go bad, and it was 20 years old.  I agree, that's not really a surprise.  The fact that I chose to replace it with a cheaper, non-vacuum actuated petcock to give myself more control over fuel flow is simply my choice.  I think most of the problems with petcocks on this board are simply age.  Remember that many of us here have 15-20 year old bikes!

[adidasguy]

Well put.

Seems in this country people hear one thing and freak out. I think it is due to the news media . It is no longer news but sensational stories and ratings. An insignificant event can be turned into a major news story if there is nothing else to report. So many things have gone that way. I remember Ephedrine. Some sports guy had died and was taking it and other drugs. The blame has to go somewhere. Stories upped the statistics and mislead people by saying "there were 100 deaths in 10 years LINKED to ephedrine". Note the 100? You consider that serious! A HUGE number you can understand. But 10 years? Less than 1 per month. (When you hear a statistic you ignore the time period because that involved mental math.) Death? No. Only "linked" meaning they may have died of a heart attach and because they had ephedrine (a common asthma medication) it goes on the record as "linked".

Flu? A couple die from some strange train and we all freak out. 30,000 die every year from the common flu. Interesting, one year when there was a shortage of flu vaccine the death rate did not go up. Friends that insist on getting a flu shot are always getting sick. Those that don't rarely get the flu or a cold.

Shark death? 5 last year. WOW! Gotta stay out of the ocean. However, the US leads the world in deaths from falling out of bed. Something like 32 last year. OMG! STAY OUT OF BED!

GS500 has crappy petcocks! Must replace them!  Must put on something different!

It is documented and well known the front fork springs are as good as a spring in a ball point pen. But the rear shock?

Many have said it is fine. Sometimes it seems like a fad to have to replace it. We read postings of a person who just got a GS500 and before riding it, wants to change the rear shock - even before the front springs - because they read others do it. Then they proclaim how they love the KAT or other shock. OK, you love it. People read that and think the rear shock is bad because you like your KAT shock. That is an incomplete story. No mention of how he liked the stock rear shock because he never rode with it! No comparison and no mention of rider weight or style of riding. I liked the post where a new rider said the rear was fine - all he had to do was change the setting to stiffer for his weight.

Its Monday. Had to rant a little to start off the week and wake people up.

[The Buddha]

Blah bla bla ... Dude, I have parts I yanked out of katana carbs 6-7 years ago and the bloody kat's were atleast 10 years old then ... Lets make it 1993 or so and they are still alive and useable.

The chinese rubber is crappy. Not particular reference to K&L Orings though.

Gas is worse however you dont see older cars and trucks sitting by the side of the road with a torrent of gasoline pouring out of em do you ... OK good. That eliminates gas as the reason. Gas has got worse in the quantity of additives, not exactly with the range of chemicals. As in if you had 5% something and 1% something else, now you have 10% and 2% and not a few new chemicals ... not neccesarily to kill anything that would stand up to the previous soup.

Now get this, my xs grommets weren't even in gas, they are side cover and other frame grommets. No wonder people are building bobbers out of those, I think they're just tired of putting new grommets every 2 years.

Cool.
Buddha.