Bogs and Dies with throttle

[Tombstones81]

Since I didnt get some help since I updated my project thread, i'll post here in hopes of getting some insight before I wake up from working all night.

1994 bike
1989 engine.

Checked the Wiki and seen no changes in the carbs for my 94s im using on the 89 engine.

Idles and Chokes 100% fine.
But when I open the throttle, it will rev up a bit then bog and die.
Opening the throttle normally or faster, it bogs and dies quickly.
If I open it up slowly, rpms will raise and then bog and die.

if I let off the throttle before it dies, it returns to normal idle.

Fuel lines are fine. (watched fuel flow through them for a bit)
gas tank cap was open and didnt help.
spark plugs are not wet and look perfectly fine.

I figure a few possibilities.
1. getting the carbs on the engine side boots was VERY hard!
So it might be partially blocked.
got 2 extra sets of booties, so I will be swapping them out with the almost brand new pair I bought last year.

2. carbs need a cleaning (doubtful!) or when I had them upside down putting the cables on, the floats got stuck.

3. throttle cable adjustment.

4. the semi loose exhaust valves.
wanted looser then .04 so I went with the next size down I had which took the one which was the loosest to .013 or .13 whatever it is.
I forget what the other one was, but not as loose.
read that shouldnt be a problem.
and I will check the valves last.


anyone think of anything else im missing?

thanks

(edit)
and I didnt check the float level.
I've done that ALOT already before this engine and have no reason to suspect anything is off unless the floats got stuck when I had the carbs upside down attaching cables.
those I will check, but im 100% certain the float lvl if the internals are fine is all ok.
i'll check anyways but I forgot to when I got done with workin on it yesterday

[The Buddha]

Blocked pilot - dude turning them upside down lets gravity send the dirt @ the bottom of the float bowl into the top ... you have classic signs of blocked pilot, but stuck floats - well you smell gas ? If so yea tap the float with a screwdriver handle.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Tombstones81]

thanks.
didnt smell gas at all.
sorry I forgot to mention that even tho I made extra observation if there was any.

I'll just take them off since im changing the boots anyways and give them a quick cleaning.

at this point, something like this is nothin in comparison to what I've had to do so far.
so I dont mind.

kk off to bed now, hopefully that works out.

just incase it doesnt, anymore suggestions are appreciated.

actually wait..
wouldnt a blocked "Pilot" jet affect idle and choke?
ur the expert but I assume it sounds more like the main jets.

doesnt matter tho as im going to clean them all.

oh yeah, no backfiring either.

(edit)
always forget something .... ><
and I wouldnt of turned them upside down if they were ran enough to get Really dirty.
I havnt ran the bike enough to "Think" enough crap would get in to cause any issues.
if thought there was, I wouldnt have.

but still might have been enough crap in the tank to cause it

just saying, I didnt do that carelessly. (flip em)

[steezin_and_wheezin]

I'm no expert on engine diagnosis, but this sounds similar to when i first started my parts bike. Any heavy throttle would bog and kill the engine. I changed the plugs/coils and was able to get it revving fine. Ran well enough to ride around the neighborhood a few times with no problems. Before the swap i could pull my left wire and it would kill the engine. I did have lots of popping/backfires though

Have you tried pulling each wire off while idling to see if its firing on both cylinders properly?

[craigs449]

Check float level......too low and it would cause this issue, starving for fuel when you crack the throttle. 

You said gas is flowing, but you did not specify if you saw it flowing from the tank to the petcock, or from the petcock to the carbs? 

[dynasty17]

my 05 just started doing this also. just rebuilt the engine. replaced crankshaft and bearings, piston rod, gaskets, etc. so much for getting a cheap used one huh? anyhow i been riding it about 500 miles, following the manual for running in. the only thing i have changed recently was the tension on the throttle, it was a bit sloppy and loose. well now it is bogging down when i try running it without choke. it idles fine, right around 1.2k rpm. i tried readjusting the throttle back where it was before but that didn't correct it. also i noticed that before this happened, the tachometer was real jumpy above 4 to 5k  rpms. any suggestions on what to try?

[Kijona]

my 05 just started doing this also. just rebuilt the engine. replaced crankshaft and bearings, piston rod, gaskets, etc. so much for getting a cheap used one huh? anyhow i been riding it about 500 miles, following the manual for running in. the only thing i have changed recently was the tension on the throttle, it was a bit sloppy and loose. well now it is bogging down when i try running it without choke. it idles fine, right around 1.2k rpm. i tried readjusting the throttle back where it was before but that didn't correct it. also i noticed that before this happened, the tachometer was real jumpy above 4 to 5k  rpms. any suggestions on what to try?

Jumpy tachometer and now it won't run? Sounds like an electrical issue to me. You might've had a short somewhere relating to ignition. I doubt the throttle cable has anything to do with it, honestly.

[Tombstones81]

found the problem but yet to see if its corrected.

the left side top cover of the carbs got partially cracked in a small area.
since I do not have another one.
I put some liquid cement on it to seal it.
Now I am waiting for it to fully dry in the sun and then see if that clears up all issues.

since obviously it was an air leak.

(edit)
and no I do not plan to leave it like that.
I plan to buy another one as soon as I got the $$. (most likely next Fri)
or sooner if the salvage yard will part with one this weekend.

[dynasty17]

my 05 just started doing this also. just rebuilt the engine. replaced crankshaft and bearings, piston rod, gaskets, etc. so much for getting a cheap used one huh? anyhow i been riding it about 500 miles, following the manual for running in. the only thing i have changed recently was the tension on the throttle, it was a bit sloppy and loose. well now it is bogging down when i try running it without choke. it idles fine, right around 1.2k rpm. i tried readjusting the throttle back where it was before but that didn't correct it. also i noticed that before this happened, the tachometer was real jumpy above 4 to 5k  rpms. any suggestions on what to try?

Jumpy tachometer and now it won't run? Sounds like an electrical issue to me. You might've had a short somewhere relating to ignition. I doubt the throttle cable has anything to do with it, honestly.

oh it runs, just very poorly  in low RPMs. no problems if kept above 3k.  not sure what it could be honestly. i was thinking a fuel/air ratio problem.

[Kijona]

my 05 just started doing this also. just rebuilt the engine. replaced crankshaft and bearings, piston rod, gaskets, etc. so much for getting a cheap used one huh? anyhow i been riding it about 500 miles, following the manual for running in. the only thing i have changed recently was the tension on the throttle, it was a bit sloppy and loose. well now it is bogging down when i try running it without choke. it idles fine, right around 1.2k rpm. i tried readjusting the throttle back where it was before but that didn't correct it. also i noticed that before this happened, the tachometer was real jumpy above 4 to 5k  rpms. any suggestions on what to try?

Jumpy tachometer and now it won't run? Sounds like an electrical issue to me. You might've had a short somewhere relating to ignition. I doubt the throttle cable has anything to do with it, honestly.

oh it runs, just very poorly  in low RPMs. no problems if kept above 3k.  not sure what it could be honestly. i was thinking a fuel/air ratio problem.

Since the tachometer on the newer bikes is electronic...jumpiness would indicate an electrical problem. That is, unless the motor seems to jumping with the tachometer.

[dynasty17]

yeah I'll have to check that out. any idea on the bogging out when i throttle? I'm pretty new to motorcycles so all I've checked so far were the plugs and throttle cable. working on finding time to check out the carb.  can't it just fix itself?

[Kijona]

yeah I'll have to check that out. any idea on the bogging out when i throttle? I'm pretty new to motorcycles so all I've checked so far were the plugs and throttle cable. working on finding time to check out the carb.  can't it just fix itself?

Heh, no they rarely fix themselves.

Sorry, I should've been more clear. The bogging and stuff could be caused by an issue with the ignition system and the jumpy tachometer could be an indication of that problem.

[Big Rich]

Dynasty, please start another thread for your bike - it gets kind of confusing.

Tomb- Are your needles adjusted at all? If it's seems to be a constant problem, then it sounds to me like a fuel starvation problem. Clogged carb vents, tank vents, etc. But if it's only when you get on the throttle quickly, then it could be your needles are too high.

I'm curious if it's too much gas or not enough........

[Tombstones81]

Well I fully cleaned the carbs.
Put them back on and went around the block.
acted fine but when I really opened it up, it bogged down.

one culprit tho, the one cam shaft half moon thingy was partially loose. (my fault)

took the cover off and rechecked the valves.
one intake was tight and other was loose.
adjusted it all and put it back together.

now it doesnt wanna start... hahaha

gotta take it apart again tomorrow... Oye! come on!

(edit)
as far as I know, the needles are stock.
and the float lvl is perfect.

I honestly dont think its a carb problem at this point now.
except maybe a throttle cable adjustment again.

the carbs ran perfectly fine in the other engine with no alterations since then.
and now they are even cleaner, even tho they were clean to begin with and the floats were fine when I took the covers off.

pretty sure right now its something with the valves.
im going to go over them Very thoroughly tomorrow morning as it was getting dark out and after I redid the intake valves, I simply put it back together and tried to start it.. which it wouldnt.
it would start to if I held the start button in but wouldnt stay going.
giving it gas or choke didnt help and with those it wouldnt do anything at all but crank.

and I changed the engine side booties, so thats no longer an issue.

time to get ready for work tho.
we'll see how it goes tomorrow

[Tombstones81]

and here we go again!

going to just redo the valve clearance all back to what they were when I first checked them (.04)
Well the ones above .08 anyways.

I just hope the valves arent bent as they were in the head cbr sent me when it wouldnt start like this is doing now.

but, I just dont know anymore....
Getting so dang fed up.

So much hard work (more then I've ever done before) with absolutely No fruit to bear. (to hell with the knowledge at this point!)
Its not like im doing all this for a selfish or materialistic reason.
Doing it because I like to work and ride, it makes me happy.

So all that hard work pays off, I gotta say... its a Total Load of Garbage! haha

yes sry my positive attitude has left the building right now. haha

and now to head out to work on it.
but my luck it will start raining soon hahaha

[Manaenrc]

I don't think this is a mechanical issue. Sounds more electrical to me. Take the left side cover  off and check the connections around the ignitor. make sure all the connections are clean and shiny.of there is any dull corrosion at all take CO contact cleaner and a brush to them then finish the job with some dielectric grease (tune up grease). One thing I noticed when I first got my bike is the connections were never treated from the factory with anything to keep them from corroding. And as I found out the ignition is very sensitive to oxidation. This will cause all sorts of weird running issues. .04 difference in valve settings Will not stop an engine from running, may not run well but it will run.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

[cbrfxr67]

Manaenrc,......Goats?  Starretts?  I can't rememember which is which,...either way,...noooooo-ooooooh!

[piresito]

and here we go again!

going to just redo the valve clearance all back to what they were when I first checked them (.04)
Well the ones above .08 anyways.

I just hope the valves arent bent as they were in the head cbr sent me when it wouldnt start like this is doing now.

but, I just dont know anymore....
Getting so dang fed up.

So much hard work (more then I've ever done before) with absolutely No fruit to bear. (to hell with the knowledge at this point!)
Its not like im doing all this for a selfish or materialistic reason.
Doing it because I like to work and ride, it makes me happy.

So all that hard work pays off, I gotta say... its a Total Load of Garbage! haha

yes sry my positive attitude has left the building right now. haha

and now to head out to work on it.
but my luck it will start raining soon hahaha

Just to check, are you talking about milimeters, right?

[Tombstones81]

yes mm.

and JUST got done redoing the valve clearances again.

left exhaust was too loose, .13mm even tho that might be good, I still took it down to .07mm.
right one was tight and took it to .07mm.

right intake is at .06 or .07mm
and the left is at .08mm (best I can get it, any other shim I have makes it either WAY too loose, or too tight)


and one other thing.
cranked it a bit again before I started monkeying with it.
same deal.
but also that I forgot to mention.
when I took the carbs off, exhaust smoke was coming out of the intake side.

intake valves are sealing properly.
and I am hoping that was only because of the valve clearance was off.

didnt check the exhaust valves by looking down the front pipes as I didnt take the exhaust off yet Again yet!

if it doesnt wanna start when it stops raining, I will do that next.

Just pray nothing is wrong with the exhaust valves, I've had Enough of playing with the top end of these engines!
I should have just left them all at .04mm when I initially checked them! hahaha

should be a quick passing storm.
so i'll be going out to see if that did it as soon as it passes.

also, if the exhaust valves are fine if I have to look down the front of the engine.
then I am not touching the top end Again!

timing is right, valve clearance is right, and intake valves are ok.

if it doesnt pan out now and the exhaust valves are fine, then I will start looking elsewhere.
but the carbs are not an issue either now.

(edit)
and goats?
if that is simply a parts swap, then I am not worried in the slightest.
as my other engine im certain is in fine running condition.. minus the dang leaks!
so I can take whatever off of that Wench!

(edit)
storm is gone as quick as it started.
I dont play games with any storm with lightning!!
Scared crapless of it!

short version: 15 yrs old fishing and preparing to drink with buddies.
starts to drizzle, we figure to wait it out under a tarp.
Starts to REALLY storm!
Giant bolt of lightning Smashes into the water no more then 10 yards away from us.
didnt say a word, just got up and RANNNN!
was one of the nastiest storms of that summer too.

kk pants back on and out I go again.

[Tombstones81]

No luck.....
SOME RUNNING ENGINE!
It started a few times, went around the block ONCE and now what?.....

top ends got a ticking noise now.

got 2 videos incoming.

i am DONE troubleshooting myself.
I am going to video everything and ask for help.
otherwise, F the POS bike!
as im seriously about to go OFF!

kk copied to the computer and going to upload them now and post them as soon as they are done.

but WARNING!
I am using "some" vulgar language but not as much as I do off camera.

(edit)
oh yeah.
exhaust valves look perfectly fine.

while that uploads (going to take like 30 mins ><) im going to go out and do a compression test.

only 60 PSI on both sides with the exhaust totally off.
not sure if that matters as I forgot I had it off when I went out...

(edit)
heres the 2nd one after I took it out to my car as the battery was getting low.
http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b165/Chronno1201/?action=view&current=100_0066.mp4

ok, thats it.
if suggestions or whatever dont pinpoint a problem and it doesnt get fixed VERY SOON!
I AM taking up a previous offer of around $2000 if it was serious.
and just going to give him every single piece I have for this wretched thing!

then just go buy something that Works and not touch a thing on it.

heres the first video.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3568366689041

if nobody can make sense of it, then its probably going to be sold if that offer was serious.