Question about HVAC - my house not a bike.

[The Buddha]

K, I have a leaky R22 system. I am not liking the idea of 5g on a system cos there is 2 and its 10G.
I'm getting maybe 1lb a month in 1 and 1/4lb a month in the other one.
Is R22a better, safer, and can run @ lower pressure - so I can replace 22 with 22a and be fine filling it every year or so till maybe 2018 or so till R410a systems and R410A get common and well perfected.
I'm thinking lower pressure = less leak so am hoping to leak less, as well as have the smell of r22 (pine) help me find where it is leaking from. Anyone know ?

Cool.
Buddha.

[yamahonkawazuki]

leaks eventually get worse buddha. my truck was like this. as was my old cop car. i could get r12 without a license around here. but used to be 3 weeks to empty. then it went from that to a week. then went from that to 2 days. when i decided to not bother with it. you cal also get a dye to put into it also. hell if you were closer id loan you shops leak detector. find an HVAC guy you can borrow one from. i ran my ac year round in the truck. ( dry heat in winter)

[moosehead28]

i believe our 22a is along the same line as our rs24,m while it does work, most times not very well, I have notice that the system oil does not carry well in these "drop in" replacements, these system are designed to pump the oil through out the system and return it back to the compressor, if your gas is not carrying your oil back then it is not lubrication the compressor 

The only gas i would use is 407c, but it requires a system oil change, which in a residential unit, is difficult.

I suggest you shut the system down and take a jug of soap and water and leak check the entire unit, check all welded joints and the u bends on the end of the coils, also if there are any flare nuts(most common leak).   once you locate the leak, it needs to be repaired which can be easy( pump down the system) or hard having to remove total charge to repair

Do not put dye in the systemall it does is make a friggen mess

[yamahonkawazuki]

i believe our 22a is along the same line as our rs24,m while it does work, most times not very well, I have notice that the system oil does not carry well in these "drop in" replacements, these system are designed to pump the oil through out the system and return it back to the compressor, if your gas is not carrying your oil back then it is not lubrication the compressor 

The only gas i would use is 407c, but it requires a system oil change, which in a residential unit, is difficult.

I suggest you shut the system down and take a jug of soap and water and leak check the entire unit, check all welded joints and the u bends on the end of the coils, also if there are any flare nuts(most common leak).   once you locate the leak, it needs to be repaired which can be easy( pump down the system) or hard having to remove total charge to repair

Do not put dye in the systemall it does is make a friggen mess

aye yeah it did. ( teh dye) it sprayed all over the engine compartment of my nissan frontier. lol

[The Buddha]

The guy said it was a coil that was leaking. Its in the upstairs unit in the attic I believe.
So I get it opened up when it get cold and I can live without ac ... I suppose it will last 3-4 months, and a bigger leak = easier to find.
I'll check it, thanks guys, dammit, I get better advise here than I do from dedicated house repair sites. I swear the idea of doing somethign yourself in these days means you hand over the sheite to the repair man yourself with your 2 little hands. Anyway apprecitate the advise muchly and watch out for many more misadventures on this issue in the comming months.
Cool.
Buddha.

[gs500e]

The guy said it was a coil that was leaking. Its in the upstairs unit in the attic I believe.
So I get it opened up when it get cold and I can live without ac ... I suppose it will last 3-4 months, and a bigger leak = easier to find.
I'll check it, thanks guys, dammit, I get better advise here than I do from dedicated house repair sites. I swear the idea of doing somethign yourself in these days means you hand over the sheite to the repair man yourself with your 2 little hands. Anyway apprecitate the advise muchly and watch out for many more misadventures on this issue in the comming months.
Cool.
Buddha.

I just hope your coil does not freeze (due to escaped r22 == lower pressures == lower temperatures == block of ice) and then thaw and ruin your ceiling.
That would suck!


*i'm not a residential tech, but commercial... but here goes my opinion*
Should most certainly be able to replace just the coil, rather than the entire system.

If they guy 'wants' to replace your system, and doesn't 'want' to replace just the coil... find another tech/company to deal with.  (unless there are also other problems also... like fan motor noisy, and squirrel cage wobbly and noisy, and lines freezing up after filters, and etc etc)

$10k...  ummmm.  Ya gotta know some body who knows some body eh....

Also, it IS possible to repair a leak in an indoor coil 99% of the time (you can fix a leak in a radiator can't you?.... then there ya go(don't use solder though, won't hold the pressures, gotta use brazing rod).  Worst comes to worst you would have to bypass one refrigerant pass, and lose like 10% cooling ability.  Not a FUN job, nor a fun job, nor the 100% correct fix, but can be done.  If there are multiple leaks... fuggagetabouteeeeet.  (i'm not saying fix it yourself... it IS an involved process, and a disaster if not done right.)

ONE pound a month?  Wowsers... mine don't even hold a pound of refrigerant... you sure he isn't billing you for one pound minimum and only putting in 6 ounces?  Or does the buddah live in a mansion?  You got a Centravac and an absorber too?

Please don't use 'r22a' (as in some ridiculous mixed up blend bought off the internet). 
R22 can still be purchased... sure it is expensive now, but as you just found out, so is a new system (which you will NEED if you go r22a).  Get the leak fixed.  Spend $20 and take a test, get your refrigerant license, and buy 30lb jug of r22 and tell the tech to use that, instead of billing you for it.

I would not use 407c.  (think of the 'c' as standing for: a bad refrigerant for practical non-industrial purposes)  It is a non-azeotropic tertiary blend that fractionates waaaay to easily.  Get a pinhole... and you are looking at replacing all the refrigerant.... +++++plus++++ the oil (maybe replace oil twice if not fast enough).  I would not put 407c in my worst enemies a/c unit.  (can ya tell i don't like 407c?)  (i know there is some debate on the fractionation requiring replacing all the refrigerant..... but there are also debates on the acceptable rate of call-backs.)

R410a is a good enough refrigerant (hey there is an 'a' in it.... not a 'c'!!!!).  Sure it runs at higher pressures.  That just means that all the joints and tubing, and every other part of the system is rated for a higher pressure (supposedly).  (and hey... 410a gets leak checked at a higher pressure... so if, by your theory... higher pressures == bigger leaks, then by the square of the sum of the hypoteneuse the answer == easier to find leaks with r410a)

Smell of r22 (pine) to locate leak?  Sweeeeet.....   Soap bubbles work wonders.  Refrigerant detectors can be had fairly cheap on ebay (the cheaper the higher pressures usually needed to detect a leak, and usually more false negatives.... then again the expensive ones can suck too).






Drink lots of r718.

[The Buddha]

Holee cow.
OK The Upstairs is ~1600 sqft HLA, Downstairs is 1200 sqft HLA. Is that a McMansion - well its a huge cardboard box.
Separate units for both, and the Upstairs one is bigger than the downstairs one.
Its lost 4 lb in the upstairs one and 2 lb in the downstairs one as per the guy, however I dont know how they can tell the amount of weight it has lost, maybe its lost 4 psi and 2 psi ?

The fan and cage were replaced in the downstairs one in feb. I will get a new tech so we can replace the coil, heck I better ask around there is bound to be someone I know ... afterall I even know an eye doctor I am a mechanic for.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

OK r22a is bloody cheap, and the system leaks, so I am going to try it.
What could happen, r22a will kill the whole system ? I suspect the guy that put in refrigerant last year put in r22a.
Cool.
Buddha.

[SAFE-T]

I work in the plumbing field, and holy cow are some of the guys I meet clueless...

[The Buddha]

OK I have some extra intelligence on this. Apparently a leak = we do not put in 22a. There I have been set right. That guy has a lower combustion temperature than almost any other refrigerant. Cant have leaks.
So Then comes the good part.
R22a from envirosave is heavily used by the dude I spoke to. He is in short - impressed. He said it will work great as long as we put in the right pressure (lower than the R22 pressure BTW) and its not mixed with r22. So 22a and a proper fix of the leak is in store. If that works I would then do the downstairs cos it has a slow leak ... very slow.

Cool.
Buddha.

[yamahonkawazuki]

OK I have some extra intelligence on this. Apparently a leak = we do not put in 22a. There I have been set right. That guy has a lower combustion temperature than almost any other refrigerant. Cant have leaks.
So Then comes the good part.
R22a from envirosave is heavily used by the dude I spoke to. He is in short - impressed. He said it will work great as long as we put in the right pressure (lower than the R22 pressure BTW) and its not mixed with r22. So 22a and a proper fix of the leak is in store. If that works I would then do the downstairs cos it has a slow leak ... very slow.

Cool.
Buddha.

most utilities will finance heating ant cooling if it comes down to it. fairly cheaply too. i know youre not a guy to go into debt as much as possible. if you can get the leak fixed youre golden. most pawnshops sell r22 leak detectors fairly inexpensively or they can be rented i think
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=r22+leak+detectors&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=929&wrapid=tlif133740661609510&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13925263300673303148&sa=X&ei=lzS3T--wOYXe9ATRo5jACg&ved=0CMMBEPMCMAM#

[The Buddha]

Oooo thanks I was gonna put it in water or something ... and put air pressure ...
OK I guess I am using some correct tool.
Now you're gonna tell me I cant put POR15 and plug up the leak ... come on I do that on everything ...
Cool.
Buddha.

[yamahonkawazuki]

LMAO  the buddha humor lol gotta love it 

[The Buddha]

OK apparently they test it for leaks and weld it right there in the unit, they dont take it out.
The leak tester UV thing needs you to fill it with the dye.
The testing is done with 125psi notrogen and they spray soapwater to find the leak.
The AC tech's both of them dont have any experience with r22a and ... well i am gonna get one of em to fill to the spec pressure in my system.
I am going to put the r22a and check if it does the trick. I'll leak test it and weld it after ... I wanna try r22a that's the basic idea.
Cool.
Buddha.