Gun Owners?

[yamahonkawazuki]

Point I guess is you just have to systematically learn every cartridge and eventually it'll all make sense.

yeah it's kind of dumb how their is different names for the same round, esp. 9mm b/c like you said it's a universal round used all around the world. Perhaps this is due to dozens of manufacturers making the exact same product? I don't know, I'm just speculating.

Another thing, especially with rifle shooting and obscure pistol rounds, always pick up and save the empty brass cartridges. I myself do not re-load, but I know a few people who do. The range charges you to be there, don't let them make even more money off you by collecting and selling your brass. Of course this doesn't apply if your shooting cheap steel cased ammo (steel  cannot be reloaded).

You know, I was thinking. Perhaps it's an attempt to differentiate. You know, to keep idiots from buying the wrong cartridge. 5.56 NATO looks a lot different. If it was .223 NATO, someone could possibly mistake it for .223 REM.

i HAVE seen people insist the .223 nato and rem. were the same. hated to argue with customers. but id rather do it tactfully and let them know the differences. and to not let them get the wrong ammunition

[Kijona]

As far as I am aware, the only difference between 223 and 556 is case pressure

Some cases are equal in thickness between 223 and 556

Some cases use hard primers for 223 and soft ones for 556

You'll know you have true 556 ammo because there will be a NATO stamp on the rim of the casing Looks like this:




That being said it is NOT RECOMMENDED to fire 556 in a gun chambered for 223 (especially bolt actions, even modern ones)

With THAT being said, I have a friend that fires nothing but milsurp 556 out of his Ruger MINI-14 from the 70's and has yet to have a problem (the gun is clearly marked "223")

tried to chamber a 5.56 in a .223 it was VERY tight. otoh, a .223 in a 5.56 felt pretty much normal. a tad sloppy but bullet was chambered

You might've had a high grain 5.56 and a low grain .223 (like 62gr vs 55). I noticed the OAL of 5.56 bullets with heavier bullets tends to be higher.

[yamahonkawazuki]

the slight differences in pressure between the 5.56 and the .223 both can shoot both, however should NEVER shoot a 5.56 in a .223 but vice versa is ok.

[Janx101]

just a thought on this .223 vs 5.56 thing... i've never bothered to measure the cases etc .. but... i would tend to think the difference is not in the actual ammunition dimensions... but the rifles themselves..

the .223 'sport hunter' (bolt action?) would normally tend to be fairly precise and tighter in the chamber to ensure optimum accuracy etc .. while the more milspec 5.56nato ar15's  or similar (i would suspect) have looser tolerances in the chamber/guides/lands/barrel etc to ensure '1st time every time' operation? ... Military use being in much harsher conditions and areas mostly... not saying the milspec weapons are 'loose and crappy' .. just that they may have a less tight fit than a sport/hunter weapon.. and following on from this ...

military ammo (as most things military) .. has to be 'bigger bang' than normal.. so while the dimensions of the actual case/s should really be pretty much identical the powder/propellant may be a slightly higher charge ...
also with looser tolerances theoretically letting a slight amount of gas/bang escape the velocity with a 'given' charge of powder would be less?... so a little more powder keeps the velocity high/er ..

i have mainly used handloads in all my rifles in the past... and while some of the loads were 'standard' because thats what gave me the best/tightest group in that particular rifle.... some of them have been just below OR right on MAX loads , also because the group of shots was the tightest for a particular rifle.. and from also using ex-mil ammo in the same rifles... i guarantee my handloads in several situations were a lot higher than milspec ammo... 300-500 feet per second faster to start with .. and in a few handloads so hot that the primer was almost completely flattened and starting to gasleak around its primer edge.. so i backed those ones down a little..

sure the 5.56 Nato stuff is not recommended in a lot of .223 .. i kinda think though that it might be 'save our asses' by the rifle manufacturer safety department rather than 'Dangerous in Extreme' differences...

just my thoughtscape for the day 

[yamahonkawazuki]

what ive read is the .223 can be shot in a 5.56 w/o issues pretty much. ( talking about gas pressures here) but a 5.56 seems to have a higher gas pressure and can cause problems if done too often in a .223

[Kijona]

The difference is in the gun itself. The 5.56 chamber is significantly longer. There's twice as much leade (distance to the lands of the rifling) in a 5.56 as there is in a .223.

[Janx101]

The difference is in the gun itself. The 5.56 chamber is significantly longer. There's twice as much leade (distance to the lands of the rifling) in a 5.56 as there is in a .223.

mmm yeah, ok cool....  .. so longer to allow for 'ease of maneuvering/chambering' ??

when you guys are talking 5.56 .. are you talking exclusively assault/semi auto style weapons though? .. it has been a long while since i looked at anything in the rifle world... do they normally sell 5.56 bolt/lever/pump actions at all? ... the semi-auto's will always have that longer lead area so i believe to allow for range of case/bullet OAL discrepancies as well as the rapid fire aspect where some leeway lets it all slide in and lock easier... 

[Kiwingenuity]

i think you meant .223, .308 is a 7.62mm

Yeah - my brain has been a bit frazzled the past two weeks.. 7.62 x 51 - not that I own a .223 or its NATO buddy.. A lot of guys at the club here seem to use .223 ammo quite a bit in 5.56 - but most of them are using mini 14s or ARs. Generally they seem to be more happy that lead is headed in the general direction of the target..

The .308 and 7.62 x 51 has the same confusion since technically they are different case wise - but generally you don't seem to have any issues using either or since the gas pressures are lower for the 7.62 NATO round compared to the .308.

The only reason the 7.62 x 51 is sized an eensy bit smaller than .308 is for the reason Janx mentions - less issues with semi / full auto and poor weather or environment causing issues with feeding.

I use a Ruger M77 MKII in .308 and frequently have used R1M1 7.62 ammo with absolutely no issues.  Only real issue is the projectile weight with 7.62 which seems lighter on average than most medium game factory loads in .308.

Haven't seen any civilian 5.56 issue gadgets here - .223 is very popular for medium game including Deer.

[slipperymongoose]

Loaded up some Swedish 6.5x55 120 grain Remington softcore

[Janx101]

Loaded up some Swedish 6.5x55 120 grain Remington softcore

oh?.... cool! ... what powder and how much? ...

i used to use Nosler 120 ballistic tip with 48.5 gn of Mulwex 2209 ... THWAP!!! 

[slipperymongoose]

35 grains of 2206 with a cci primer

[Janx101]

35 grains of 2206 with a cci primer

... Holy smokes... That's a pretty quick powder for the 6.5 bro ... It will still work ok and possibly quite well... but with a case that's less full you can get a less consistent burn and variable pressures ... In extreme cases (like if the powder mostly packed itself forward towards the neck) you can get a hang fire ..

How far up the shell did the powder go? ..

Try it out for sure but be wary ... Normally I used 2209 ... But also would not go under 2208 ..

Weigh every charge? .. Or just weigh the measures till the thrower gave 35 mostly?

Not tryin to boss you about... I really dunno how much you have loaded previously.... If its a setup you have used with success in the past then coolio .... But 2206 ... Normally I think of that for maybe a .223 or even like .22 hornet or smaller calibre again (but more power) .. The .17 rem ...

Generally the larger the bore the slower the powder.... Mostly best to keep your powder charge up near the shoulder of the shell...


Just sayin... 

[slipperymongoose]

It's a load that was developed for me when I began shooting. Case is about 2/3 full or even a bit less. It groups quite nicely and at range quite good. It was my very first time loading on my own I weighed every 3rd charge to check and I was +\- .1 of a grain. I will have to develop a new load cause 2206 is no longer made but I was advised when it runs out to switch to 2208.

[Janx101]

Good grouping is a bonus... 2/3 up case isn't too bad .. The 6.5 is of course a slightly tapered case.. But yeah personally I wouldn't go much lower than that for fullness ..

My old man taught me to load and I ended up being pedantic about it like he was and weighed every load.... What powder thrower you using? ... Be aware as the hopper is less than 1/3 full the charges can SOMETIMES start to lighten up .. But with a small grain like the '06 that chance is minimised...

2208 will be much better in the long run ... The primer brand doesn't matter so much ... So long as you keep the pockets clean and the seated depth consistent... What brass you using? .. How much crimp on the seating? .. What depth on the seating? ....

Just being nosy eh!! ... I loved my 6.5 ... It was never the fastest or the strongest lad on the block ... But it never ever failed me... 

Oh and don't forget to have a shallow tray of graphite powder .. Maybe 1mm of graphite... Just bump the neck rim into the graphite every 3rd or 4th neck sizer pull .. Takes a lot of stress off the die ..

Oh and I think you might have mentioned it before... But what brand of lady are you slinging them out of? 


Edit... With the 2206 at 35 grains... Your recoil should be lighter... But sharper... That's a farken fast burn! ... And your 'report' probably be fairly 'crack' .. When you get to 2208 (without looking it up I would think the 41-43 gn range) .. Probably slightly more recoil overall but not as sharp ... And more of a boom/not so much crack 

[slipperymongoose]

Using an old Hornady thrower it's doing the job nicely, not crimping the case I never have they are sitting in there nice n tight. As for loading the hopper up I filled it near full and finished it with it half full. Had my cases lubed up on my rcbs lube pad and used imperial neck lube through the full size die. Seating 74.75mm, I had a reloaded round I measured and I bought a box of Winchester super x and they were slightly around 74.85 so I'm seating at about 74.80mm. It's Been a while since I let a 6.5 off. ATM my metal work is being re blued and headspace check and general inspection. My baby is 107 this year lol.

[Kijona]

The difference is in the gun itself. The 5.56 chamber is significantly longer. There's twice as much leade (distance to the lands of the rifling) in a 5.56 as there is in a .223.

mmm yeah, ok cool....  .. so longer to allow for 'ease of maneuvering/chambering' ??

when you guys are talking 5.56 .. are you talking exclusively assault/semi auto style weapons though? .. it has been a long while since i looked at anything in the rifle world... do they normally sell 5.56 bolt/lever/pump actions at all? ... the semi-auto's will always have that longer lead area so i believe to allow for range of case/bullet OAL discrepancies as well as the rapid fire aspect where some leeway lets it all slide in and lock easier... 

Never seen a lever action in .223 most likely due to the fact that lever actions are fed from a tube magazine and...pointy bullets + tube magazine + sudden shock to the rifle (even during recoil) = KA-BOOM!!!!

I have seen bolt actions in 5.56 and .223 though the large majority of bolt actions I've seen were in .223 NOT 5.56.

Only ever seen one pump action in 5.56 and I believe it was made by Remington. Took AR-15 magazines, if I recall correctly.

The large majority of firearms chambered for .223/5.56 are going to be semi-automatic. You have the AR-style, Ruger Mini-14, the AK-47's chambered in 5.56, and a whole host of other rifles.

[Kijona]

I found it. It's this:

[yamahonkawazuki]

ill be damned! i want one. not seen one on shelves here ever

[Kiwingenuity]

Thats a very interesting gadget.. haven't seen anything like that here either... now I want one.

[Zmerica19]

remington 870 express 20 gauge, mossberg 500 12 guage and a winchester 22