Gun Owners?

[Kiwingenuity]

nice grouping on the target. if you want to see it shrink more and are adventurous, drop the trigger group out of your gun and hone the sear a bit to smooth it out.

Definitely agree with this - new firearms (unless you pay ridiculous money) are never polished properly - helped a mate polish up a .308 BAR recently - made a huge difference to A) semi auto actually working (feeding properly) and B) much tighter groups with a smoother trigger.

[Badot]

I would suggest lead pellets for accuracy. In my experience they tend to form a better seal, have a more consistent velocity, and are more stable in flight (probably something with velocity discrepancy vs rifling rate).

And in case you haven't figured it out yet, like any low velocity long barreled weapon, your and the gun's motions right after the trigger pull are very important for accuracy. Letting it and you take the 'recoil' the same way every time will help dramatically.

[Kijona]

You need to try a range of pellets for maximum accuracy. Just like any other gun, twist rate in the rifle has a huge impact.

Case and point, the Savage 93R17 prefers 20gr bullets.15gr and 17gr bullets tend to over-stabilize and keyhole or worse.

[Janx101]

or to put it another way .. what this bloke says!! http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifling_twist_rate.htm

ok he's talking about mostly high velocities and centrefire rifles... but it still holds for any projectile out of a rifled barrel

[adidasguy]

The better air guns are rifled, though I don't think they always say the amount.
The 850 is rifled. SOme day I'll run some test to see which pellets give the best accuracy. Along with that I'd like to know the speed and impact force. More toys to buy?

Should I buy a lead sled? if so, suggestions? Make one? I only want to fire a magazine of 8 or 10 of the same pellet and see the spread. They try another pellet.

No raccoons yet. Not even any birds in the area. Weird! I don't shoot at birds - just my target (A steel 22 bullet trap - works great for pellets).

Amazing stress reliever.

For checking approximate speed and/or penetration, would a thick stack of cardboards work? I have lots of old corrugated cardboard that can be stacked up. Fire into it and see how many sheets it goes through before stopping.

[Kijona]

The better air guns are rifled, though I don't think they always say the amount.
The 850 is rifled. SOme day I'll run some test to see which pellets give the best accuracy. Along with that I'd like to know the speed and impact force. More toys to buy?

Should I buy a lead sled? if so, suggestions? Make one? I only want to fire a magazine of 8 or 10 of the same pellet and see the spread. They try another pellet.

No raccoons yet. Not even any birds in the area. Weird! I don't shoot at birds - just my target (A steel 22 bullet trap - works great for pellets).

Amazing stress reliever.

For checking approximate speed and/or penetration, would a thick stack of cardboards work? I have lots of old corrugated cardboard that can be stacked up. Fire into it and see how many sheets it goes through before stopping.

A good rest/clamp is one of the best investments you can make in the world of firearms and particularly rifles that you plan to have scopes on. It makes things so much easier.

[Janx101]

cardboard .. yeah its a pretty rough guide though... the fluctuations in penetration depending on how many voids/ribs the pellet passes through till it stops.... and a flat tip target pellet will vary from a pointed 'hunting' pellet... or those ball bearing tipped ones you mentioned will be different again...

as for speed... given a 'full' charge each time... there wont be TOO much variation in the speed of the pellets.. they are only varying in initial weight by a couple of gn's .. .... i know its different.. but for example ..

i used to have a .220 swift .. happened that the best accuracy was from a 52gn speer hollowpoint at a chronographed 4023 fps ... which is f*&%kin quick! ... pretty close to a max load.. well half a grain of powder away... i also loaded 50gn  hornady spitzers with same charge of powder and 55gn sierra blitzking with same charge of powder ... not really recommended to heavy up bullet weight with the upper end of speed but i knew i had a safety buffer from a reloading manual..

anyway .. the 50gn-ers gave me 4045 fps ... and the 55gn ers gave me 3998 fps .. (all the fps figures are the averaged speeds over 10 shots BUT with the weighed handloads i was using the variance between each shot of same bullet weight was less than 3 fps iirc)

thats right at the other end of the speed scale for your purposes... and again iirc the faster you go the bigger the variance with different weights...

i used one of these http://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Chrony-F-1-Chronograph-green/dp/B001BR3364 .. in an earlier incarnation ... really simple... really tough ... probably one of the best for the 'occasional tester' .. you can spend a hell of a lot more for a bit more accuracy .. but these ARE good...

the lead sled.... hmmm wouldnt necessarily buy one.. though they do look good... probably the simplest form of that is just a couple of leather or maybe denim 'bags' about house brick size mebbe one a bit larger/taller and one a bit flatter/smaller ... fill them with lead shot .. oh hang on... in the pics of the leadsleds from the big companies... you see the bag/weight that they put in the bottom section usually?.... one or a couple of them .. or if you want more than bags.. rustle around in a place that might have some old lab equipment stands... nice sturdy 'tripod' feet of heavy steel/iron... some 4" C section steel... bit of welding and grinding and painting... bingo homemade sled.. or lash out and get the full monty!!

what i have always done is .... get your table... get your seat .. get your bags .. forestock nestles into front bag .. the heel of the butt nestles into the rear bag ... and away you go... bush style benchrest ... all you really want to do is stabilise the overall stock while you are checking groups.. minimise the muscle movement effect that most people input as they simply squeeze the trigger..

it being you Addy .. i suppose you could go out and get the fancy gear  ... but simplicity will suffice!

and i remember seeing  in this thread ... honing the sears on the trigger/mechanism.. yes its good!... but be very slow and precise as you do it... its a fine line between smoothing and causing a slip fault..

on most standard rifles the trigger pull will be around 6-8 lbs .. with some neat work you can drop that to 3 or 4 ... a mate of mine that shoots 1000yds target competitions has his down to 2 lbs... that being the lower limit allowed for that comp... ANOTHER mate was so impressed with the light weight that he decided to hone/lighten his trigger too which he muffed up  ... in his .375 H&H Magnum ... which eventually resulted in the damn thing firing as he closed the bolt quickly while we were on a walk to look for feral pigs... lucky he had it at port arms and the 250gn bullet went whistling off into about 25,000 acres of bush/farmland that we knew was lacking people .. working it out later it could have landed about 4-5 miles away .. yes that an extreme case ... and a big bullet... but even a little airgun pellet could tag someone or something if a triggerjob was overdone... so approach carefully!  ... sidenote again... some competition air pistols and rifles have trigger weights in the 1.1 lbs range... that is so light... you can just 'tippy touch' the trigger and ping away it goes... 

whats that you say??... enough of my blather?! .. lol... ok then 

[adidasguy]

Another way to measure speed would be to record it.
In Vegas Video or Sound Forge measure the time from the gun fire to the plink of it hitting the target. Do some math. Should be pretty close. My camera will record slow motion. 1/6 speed as I recall. Should be able to catch a pellet passing in front of a graph paper.

Not as simple as the device that directly reads the speed but it is free.

[Janx101]

1/6th speed?... with 1000fps?.... nah! ... nup!... doubt it...  .... think you'd need something on the order of 1/100? minimum?

awesome idea though!! .

[adidasguy]

1/6th speed?... with 1000fps?.... nah! ... nup!... doubt it...  .... think you'd need something on the order of 1/100? minimum?

awesome idea though!! .

Maybe not catch on video, though a slow 600 fps pellet woudl be interesting to try. I can still catch the sound and accurately measure the time between firing and hitting.

[Janx101]

this is true..

... another thought... you mentioned recently that you went to a range.... i bet they nearly have to have a chronograph there somewhere?... either company one or a member of the range?...

[adidasguy]

I just ordered a magnetic stick on laser to align the scope. When I do that, it will be fun to take to the range and really check for range and accuracy.

Got in some 12" splatter targets.

I think the air gun can go 25 yards with no problem. 50 yards probably will depend on what pellets it likes best. I honestly doubt an air gun can go 100 yards.

Has anyone had luck with an air gun at 100 yards? I'm talking about a .177 and a .22 rated at over 1000 fps. High velocity pellets can up that supposedly by 25% but then it is a lighter pellet so maybe distance will fall off.

Do any of you have suggestions for the best pellets? I have a small assortment. I haven't done any bench trials for accuracy or penetration yet. It has been too nice so I have been riding more. Thumper got a nice workout today!

[slipperymongoose]

Well after a 4 month wait imam finally a licensed firearm owner once more

[Janx101]

 

[oldmech]

you where talking about being able to check your velocity of the pellets you where shooting. check out this site. they work great. if you call them you can get refurded unit cheaper..if they have any.

http://www.shootingchrony.com/

as far as shooting and air pellet 100 yards..yea you could probably do it. but it is such a light weight that a fly fart would nock it off course.

[yamahonkawazuki]

nice grouping on the target. if you want to see it shrink more and are adventurous, drop the trigger group out of your gun and hone the sear a bit to smooth it out.

Definitely agree with this - new firearms (unless you pay ridiculous money) are never polished properly - helped a mate polish up a .308 BAR recently - made a huge difference to A) semi auto actually working (feeding properly) and B) much tighter groups with a smoother trigger.

yup i do this on all of my weapons. polish the ramps, the triggers etc. jsut remember you cal always take material off. but cannot add it back on if you take too much.

[Janx101]

back in the olden days when we were allowed semi auto's over here.... and speaking of making things smooth and slippy

20 years ago a mate had a mini 14 ruger rancher  iirc ... at the time we also had an IPSC competition time unit which could count/time number of shots fired ..

he had modified his mechanism to hold and spray (full auto) ... so we ran a 20shot clip through it... took 2.7 seconds .. again iirc ..

we sprayed all the moving bits with teflon spray ... 2.05 seconds iirc

we were somewhat impressed, but like the mythbusters we wanted more....

another mate worked at a industrial type lab ... and had the equipment to bond a very fine layer of teflon onto the disassembled moving parts... (took a few weeks to get it all back together) ...

20 shot clip .. 1.73 seconds .. at which point he decided it was getting expensive for ammo... 

he also later had a suppressor fitted to it .. he was a bit of a knob head ... and occasionally would drag the whole thing out into his suburban backyard ... and let a clip loose into his lawn ...  .. and gloat that the neighbours didnt even know it...

till he forgot where his water/power lines were that led to his man cave/shed .. and blew them both out... only about 4" under the grass ... cos he did them himself...

i dont go visit him any more .. not for about 17 years ... he put all his fences up to 7 feet ... has cctv surrounding his property .. you had to ring his house phone in a certain sequence/number of rings/number of calls .. before you turned up... and were only allowed to be in the front foyer room or around side of house to shed...

he kinda was a prepper .. but without all the wilderness and supplies... 

[yamahonkawazuki]

he get raped by mythical drop bears?

[Janx101]

Nah.... He just went weird.... After his overall public persona deteriorated beyond my level of feeling comfortable... And that's usually a fair bit... I asked around a few other common mates.... They said he been going downhill for long time... And there had been help offered/suggested ... But always refused....

He wasn't a nutjob ... Just went very... Hmmm .. Closed in? ..... Far as I know he has never gone postal ... And doesn't have all those toys anymore.... His family had to leave though.... Eventually they just couldn't handle the ever changing rules..... Never any physical or active verbal abuse afaik either... He went virtually Hermit in the burbs ... Despite my initial concern and subsequent inquiry it's just better to stay away .... Still see him on the street every now and then.. And will nod/wave and say hi, but any approach sends him all agitated and hurtling back to the car and home....

If it was the Simpsons I'd put him as the love child of Crazy Cat Lady and Grandpa ...

Left alone he is content.

[yamahonkawazuki]

The better air guns are rifled, though I don't think they always say the amount.
The 850 is rifled. SOme day I'll run some test to see which pellets give the best accuracy. Along with that I'd like to know the speed and impact force. More toys to buy?

Should I buy a lead sled? if so, suggestions? Make one? I only want to fire a magazine of 8 or 10 of the same pellet and see the spread. They try another pellet.

No raccoons yet. Not even any birds in the area. Weird! I don't shoot at birds - just my target (A steel 22 bullet trap - works great for pellets).

Amazing stress reliever.

For checking approximate speed and/or penetration, would a thick stack of cardboards work? I have lots of old corrugated cardboard that can be stacked up. Fire into it and see how many sheets it goes through before stopping.

watermelons or squash or melons of any kind. similar sans bone to hte human body. shoot it with a 9mm or whatnot, youll see how hte projectile would act on human body. upon entry, and if not hitting a bone, youd see the exit spread. ( or you can insert rebar into watermelon then shoot it. ( simulates bones ribs etc