My GS500F to E .. "project" (plus repairs)

[Phil B]

Phew. Done for the night, but not done with the project.
Here's a piccy for ya.

Sad things:
1. Huh, looks like one side of my handlebars is bent down. Guess I need to fix that 

2. FRAME DAMAGE.
My turning lock for my forks... is still off.  it turns more (too far) to the right, than to the left
The thing that messed up the alignment of the subframe for the cowl..must have twisted that whole.. erm.. whaddyamacallit.. to the right


GOOD news is.. electrics check out (indicators and lamp)
And, I didnt "waste" my efforts.The right fork tube really was still bent. So I definitely improved it.
Plus my fork oil was dirty black. So that was a good thing to fix
And wheel guard(mud flap whatever) went on waaay easier than it came off.

I think only thing left to do tomorrow morning, is put on the wheel, and then, God willing, I will be able to ride (safely? pray) into work tomorrow, for bike-to-work day. If I pull this off, it will be really really wierd riding without windshield for the first time.

I tested sliding the wheel axle thingie through. It went through really clean. So, yay new fork braces and parallel forks!



(aheh.. the passphrase for this tinypic upload was, "easy as cake".  uhhh..yeahNO )

[Phil B]

Weeelll...
the speedometer "drive" sticks out a little.
But I think thats normal?


the spacer sticks out a little on the other side too. But when I compared how it looked on the OLD fork, with the spacer flush on the inside.. it seemed to be sticking out about the same amount?


So the only thing that bothers me now, is this:
I seem to be standing directly "in front" of where the fork tubes are. and the fender is pointing at me.

But the wheel is off to the side. and may or may not be pointing at an angle to the side slightly.



But there's no wobble when I spin the front wheel (even though the brakes rub. but they did that to start with)

Soooo.. . I guess I'll head off to work, and keep at @40mph, see how it goes.

[adidasguy]

Don't base anything on the fender. You fender was bent and cracked. The fender can be repositioned - the bolt holes have a little room for movement (You line up the fender with the wheel - not the other way around.)
Look at the forks from the side. They should be in-line.
You can shove that spacer back in. It should be flush on each side of the fork.
Speedo side looks OK.

[Phil B]

You can shove that spacer back in. It should be flush on each side of the fork.

Err.. you might want to check that against a "new" rightside fork.
The spacer is wider than that section of the fork

[Phil B]

I tested sliding the wheel axle thingie through. It went through really clean. So, yay new fork braces and parallel forks!

Well.. at ONE time, it slid clean through.
But when I tried it later, it did not.
When i was PUTTING ON THE WHEEL.
The bolt didnt line up.
Silly me, I decided, "eh, just push the fork forward, get the bolt through,and everything will sort itself out".
WRONG.  Forcing it was a bad, bad mistake.


It turns out that, after reassembly, the wheel really IS "pointing to the right".
And that's because.... (bad explanation/guess here...)
I had to pull the bottom of the rightside fork "forward" to get the wheel axle through. It was improperly behind its place. turns out that's because the TOP part, is improperly forward. 

This means, while the fork tubes seem to be left/right parallel, they are not forward/back parallel.

Annoying thing is, as I mentioned way earlier, it was beautifully clean and lined up  when I tried it without the wheel on the axle. I thought it was the weight of the wheel messing things up.
Guess not.
Hmmm.. I think "clean" was before I put on fork brace.
But.. but.. i TRIED loosening the screws on the fork brace. it didnt help.
WAITAMINIT.. @#$@ fender was not on when I tried it either.
Is that it?
Or do I erally have to somehow find a way to loosen the top centerbolt thingie?

What the heck IS that anyways, a metric 22 or something? !

uuugghh... this is not looking good

[adidasguy]

As long as flush inside you're OK.
I'll compare new and old forks and the spacers when I get home.

Thinking about it, that spacer would allow the fork to be where it wants to be. If it were fixed like the left side, any variation in the distance between the forks would not be accommodated. That is, the spacer being able to be moved in and out allows for a variation of the distance between the forks, so you can tighten the axle and not put stress on a fork. You tighten down everything else and last you would tighten the bolt around that spacer.

So loosen the spacer bolt. Pry a screwdriver in the gap at the bottom of the fork so the spacer can freely move. Let things settle in where they want to be. Then where ever that spacer ends up, tighten things down.

[adidasguy]

OK. The forks will be parallel to each other - perfectly in line when viewed from the side. One can not be "in front" of the other unless they are not parallel.

Do not use the handle bars or the fender as your guide for aligning everything. The bars are bent. The fender is twisted.
Base it on the triple in relation to the bike. Basically, if the forks are parallel and in-line then the forks and the triple are fine.

You tighten up the fender and fork brace when the forks are where they should be. You position the fender to look good. The fender is not a guide to how the wheel should go on.

The handlebars will be correct if the triples and forks are in-line. Bent bars should not be used as a guide to how the forks go. You will only need to loosen the top plate and steering stem if the upper and lower triple are not aligned with each other. If the forks are in-line and parallel, then the triples are fine.

[Phil B]

Thinking about it, that spacer would allow the fork to be where it wants to be. If it were fixed like the left side, any variation in the distance between the forks would not be accommodated. That is, the spacer being able to be moved in and out allows for a variation of the distance between the forks, so you can tighten the axle and not put stress on a fork. You tighten down everything else and last you would tighten the bolt around that spacer.

And that indeed is the instructions in the manual. Tighten that last.
Wondered why that was. now I know

but I dont have left-right problems. I have forward/backproblems.
Could still use suggestions on best way to loosen and properly align that junk.

Erm....
When I have the axle through the wheel, and just the left fork... the top thingie (top plate?) and the wheel direction, seem to be in line.
There's just the "small problem" that the right fork aint lined up, at that point.

If I adjusted the top steering bolt, so I can rotate the top plate a bit... it seems like that is then going to take the left side OUT of alignment, to fix the right side?
Makes me think like the actual bottom tripple clamp (or would it be the top) has maybe gotten bent towards the main frame? 
ie: Just like the stupid cowl subframe bracket got bent "to the right", maybe the clamp thingie got bent "to the right" as well? In which case, I'm toast?
Anything I can observe, to confirm or deny this nasty possibility?


(Trying to avoid going out to the tool store, Yet Again, and buying Yet Another tool [22mm socket] if it's going to be useless anyway)

[adidasguy]

I have plenty of triples if you want a replacement. They have good bearings so you won't need to attempt that (worst bearings to try to replace - so I just use a replacement).

The lower of a used triple is handy to have around for holding forks while you work on them.

[Phil B]

I have plenty of triples if you want a replacement. They have good bearings so you won't need to attempt that (worst bearings to try to replace - so I just use a replacement).

The lower of a used triple is handy to have around for holding forks while you work on them.

I dunno. would be nice to have a more definitive method of determining, "yes, this is IT, this is what you need to replace and then it's all good".
I dont wanna waste shipping costs, and time, if it isnt the triple clamp. or if I can usefully adjust the one I have.

btw, here's some pics zoomed in of forkie issues.
First, a leading edge "hey yup they arent aligned" comparison pic.
You can just barely see the edge of the right tube, aka "behind" one, to the left of the foreground one.


and now a "Hmm. yeah axle alighnment would be a good thing" pic.


Side comment: I was cheating previously, and just keeping the bike "on the center stand", but a little bit of weight on the front.
This meant that the left side fork was compressed a little when I was trying things, I guess.
I managed to raise it up so wheel  is truly off the ground. Helped a little.. but not enough, as the pic above shows

[adidasguy]

This comes to mind: could the left fork be bent? The right one was, and perhaps the left one has a slight bend? That would be a bend so slight you couldn't easily be detected. Seeing maybe a half inch difference in the bottom ends, that isn't much to look for. Definitely not anything obvious.

I can't think of a reliable way to check short of pulling it out. That bend would be hard to measure on the bike with so many parts in the way.

If you took it out and placed it on a table, watch it as you rotate the tube. It should stay the same distance off the table. If it goes up and down as you rotate it, then it's bent.

PS: by that I mean hold the bottom fixed. Rotate the upper tube. if bent, you will see the top end go up, down, left and right.

If bent, it is very slight. It could be bent in any direction. as you did have the fork removed, it is unlikely you put the fork back in exactly the same. Few people could since there are no markings on the top tube. It doesn't make any difference if it is straight. If bent, the bottom of the fork could end up going in any direction.

I would re-check the one I sent in the unlikely event it had a bend that went undetected by me or the shop I got it from.

If one of them has any kind of bend, I'll send you one and I'd put a lower triple in just to insure your triple is straight. It never hurts to be sure.

[Phil B]

I think we have an official diagnosis now.

I didnt bother to check the one you sent me. I did, however, check my existing left-side one.
Looks clean.

When it came time to reinsert, with all the clamps loose... it slides up nice and smooth.

On the RIGHT side, however:
once I got it out of the top clamp, it slid okay inside the bottom one. But when I got it up to the top again... it was off the target.
If one side is on-target, and one side is off... seems to indicate a permenant issue. But, lets double check, to eliminate wierdness with top stuff...

I put them both in "just the bottom clamp", evened up the length, and compared.

yup. still not parallel.
So, seems like the bottom "triple" has somehow been twisted.


This is depressing.
Even if I did replace that thing, ... the frame is still dinged up, to the point where the turn lock is messed up, as I mentioned.
Additionally, the tank looks a mess, with its really bad dents. and the footpeg, and... and...

If things were at "pre-season" prices, I'd definitely just buy a "new" one instead.

On the one hand, I feel like I've gained some knowlege out of all this, so it's not a TOTAL loss.
But still... really frustrating

Anyone know of a "good condition" gs500 (year 2000 or newer), $2000 or under, within 500 miles of los angeles? 

[bombsquad83]

I really don't mean to be mean at all, but the constant quoting of things that don't need it is getting distracting.

[adidasguy]

I'll send you a lower triple if that will help. I have plenty of them. Say the work and I'll send it out tomorrow.


I suppose if the fork and frame were bent, it is possible the triple was also damaged.

[Phil B]

I'll send you a lower triple if that will help. I have plenty of them. Say the work and I'll send it out tomorrow.

I suppose if the fork and frame were bent, it is possible the triple was also damaged.

Well, I guess it depends on how fiddly it is to install the thing. No weird tools required?
No, "this should be done by a proper shop or else the bike wont be [balanced/....?] properly" ?

[adidasguy]

Not hard. Take off steering stem bolt. Then take off triple top nut (like the ones on a bicycle). While it requires a special tool, I gently used large pliers. You may need to take off the top plate (2 bolts) to get easy access to the stem nut.

Then the triple drops out. Slide new one up. Put on top bearing, dust cap then the stem nut. Tighten snug - turn things to be sure it is not too tight. More problems from being too tight (hard to steer0 than too lose (noisy steering stem). Since the weight is down on the lower triple, if the top is lose it is not a serious issue.

Stick the forks through the lower and turn the top so they line up. Now finish tightening everything down.
remember: steering nut should not be too tight.

The top chrome bolt will be tight.

[Phil B]

Not hard. Take off steering stem bolt. Then take off triple top nut (like the ones on a bicycle). While it requires a special tool, I gently used large pliers. You may need to take off the top plate (2 bolts) to get easy access to the stem nut.

Urrrr.. how large?
I dont particularly have "large pliers".
I have a bunch of small needlenose ones, many nails and screws of assorted sizes (randomly on a shelf ) assorted pipe wrenches and adjustable wrenches, and possibly other random stuff.
Oddly, I didnt see any mention of a special tool (or much mention of the nut, even) in the haynes manual.

[adidasguy]

There is a steering stem bolt wrench. Same as used on bicycles. You can use a hammer and a screw driver, wrench, strong needle nose pliers (yes - go ahead guys and yell at me for this hillbilly method. But when in a pinch, make do without buying special tools for one time use.)

You can take things apart while the new one is on its way. Take photos each step and pay attention to the order things go. It isn't really that difficult. Just take your time and study the parts as you work on them.

And I know people will yell - but the bearings on what I am sending are good. You can get by with just swapping them out since the bearings will be in excellent condition. Oh, have good waterproof bearing grease (not the black stuff, I think it is green or red). I can fill a cup with some if  you want.

OK - got an excellent one. Use your existing top bearing. There will be a 35mm film can with grease.

[Phil B]

Is that what the haynes refers to as,
"unscrew the adjuster nut using a suitable C-spanner"?

Funny.. pictures of a "c-spanner", remind me a whole lot, of the suspension adjuster tool in the gs500 toolkit.
Which I have.

coincidink?

[adidasguy]

Actually, different size. But similar tool.