Farkling unbelievable spark plugs!

[jdoorn14]

My thought is that these wont last as long as the old style ones. They obviously have some way of making that occur, and I suspect it may give up sometime long before the regular ones do.

If you read far enough in the gixxer forum thread that sledge linked, you'll see that someone who purports to be from Brisk UK says that under normal conditions, they should be changed out after 15k miles max whereas you could expect iridium plugs to be good for 20k+ miles under the same conditions.

Trade off: Easier starting, better throttle response, higher cost, slightly shorter life expectancy VS. normal starting, normal throttle response, much lower cost, slightly better life expectancy.    It still comes back to what is most important to you...your bike's performance or your wallet?

[jdoorn14]

Suzuki will be buying thousands and thousands of sparkplugs at a time, manufacturers want to sell them thousands and thousands at a time, because it is a far more cost efficient way of doing it for both parties.....economies of scale etc.

I agree in part. But the cost to Suzuki of the Brisk plugs will likely never be a negligible increase over the standard plugs.

Average price of a normal NGK sparkplug for the GS500 ~ $3 - cost to seller is most likely around $1.50 depending on quantity purchased.
Average price of iridium plugs for GS500 ~ $8 - cost to seller is most likely around $4, again depending on quantity purchased.
Price of Brisk performance plug for GS500 ~ $18 - cost to seller is most likely around $9, again depending on quantity purchased.

Suzuki wants to get every cent of profit out of their bikes possible. This is their responsibility to their shareholders, along with keeping costs down. (What manufacturer doesn't have these objectives?) Let's say that Suzuki gets extremely good pricing on the normal NGK plugs and can source them for around $0.90/plug. Let's also say that Suzuki can get the same 60% discount off cost for the Brisk plugs. This brings the cost to $5.40/plug. (Sorry, but Brisk isn't going to lose money on these plugs, no matter what quantity is purchased.) For something that will have a negligible performance increase (i.e., most people wouldn't notice), why would Suzuki buy the more expensive parts? If Suzuki pumps out 10k GS500s, by using the Brisk plugs, they would increase the costs of producing the bike by at least $90,000. Saving $90k over a production run by purchasing a part with marginally weaker performance = someone gets a raise.

But economies of scale say that Brisk should be able to make the product cheaper by producing more of them. While this is true in the long run, but if production goes from 1000/day to 10,000 day, the cost of making them increases in the short run (need more materials, equipment, storage space & labor). Just because Brisk now has a lower total cost, doesn't mean they are required to pass the whole savings on to their customers.

At least that's how I see it.

[ohgood]

if 5% increase in fuel economy was true, ford would buy them, or just get a Chinese knockoff, and let the market mangle them.

15k miles on s bike is nothing, though , I'm suspecting its not that long a duration, and another reason why ford doesn't care. 100000 mile plug changes are the norm, no car manufacturer would put that plug in. two strikes.

the third?  $17 each.

which relegates the plug to niche/race markets , as you see here.

the way I see it, my bike has a choke for cold mornings, and if it starts without it.....its too rich or already warm.

I also didn't see a dyno graph. did I miss it?

[Phil B]

Interesting. the youtube video, has "related" videos that include an NGK multi-spark plug.
Wonder how they compare?
A commentator on the NGK video, claims,
"There are a lot of companies that make it seem like having more than one ground allows you to ignite the mixtures better and faster, when in reality you are significantly hurting your combustion efficiency at a cost of being able to run a plug longer...."


Also wondering what their different categories of plugs from brisk mean.
LGS, GS, ZC ?

[adidasguy]

#5186

I have seen other high performance plugs. I stumbled on the Brisk and am very happy with them. More videos will follow next week. I remember hearing about ring-fire plugs and how they were supposed to last longer due to no electrode to burn through. That probably was in the early days of them.

I don't want to make you feel that Brisk is the only and best premium plug. It is what I found and am happy with them. The Brisk site tells you how they encode the letters. One letter: S or C means silver or copper inside. They have a chart of the difference in conductivity over iridium or nickel.

As for NKG: Any company will find reasons why their product is better than the competition.

As for why better plugs are not in cars if they give better performance or mileage: same reason they don't have the best oil, best battery,best tires or anything else. people are cheap. They want low cost (hence cheap and crappy airline service with no luggage or meals - people are cheap.) People who do want the best will pay later for it and upgrade their vehicle.  Just because a car company doesn't use a premium product in their cheap car is no reason to say it is not a better product.

Some people want a Fender or Gibson guitar. Some people want a cheap Chinese one because they can't tell he difference or don't want to spend the extra for a minor improvement in sound.

I'm enjoying watching the discussion and seeing some people get their panties all twisted up their crack.

[rapfohl09]

I just looked through this thread and am willing to give it a shot. I could definitely dig some better, chokeless starts.

Can I hear straight from adidasguy, what plugs did you grab off amazon?

[adidasguy]

#5187

Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00861N4OE/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M2C_SC_3p_dp_1

Same as on ebay - same company Magnum Tuning (I think Coda was bragging that he can search flea-bhey as he found the same thing from the same company for the  same price  )

I rode Suzi yesterday - iridium plugs. Giving lots of throttle up a hill I notice the typical performance: louder, takes a while to accelerate (sluggish) then it speeds up. I recall the same test with Phenix - but when hitting throttle it does take off right away. None of the sluggishness and the louder sound for a while until speeding up as with iridium plugs. More responsive is what I find most pleasing.

I agree with the literature:
* Higher horsepower upto 3%
* Higher torque up to 3%
* Better acceleration up to 15% <--- ABSOLUTELY!
* Reduced flat spots or delay time when you mash down on the throttle <--- YES!
* Increased MPG by up to 10% <--- Jury still out on the 10% but definitely 5%. More fill ups will tell.

MORE CAME IN TODAY! 

[Funderb]

I can definitely see that having the in-series multi spark ignition would improve the flame front and propagation.

But do we know that the load on the coils is the same? It seems it must be higher with this design, from simply looking at the description.
How will the coils hold up? These plugs appear to be similar to the massive electrode types, which definitely increases coil load.
These coils are sitting directly above the engine cooking, and that certainly isn't nice to them, on a very hot day in stop and go traffic, will these plugs cause the coils to fail?


just a couple questions I thought might be important, I'm definitely interested in a plug that smooths out the ever lopey idle of my bike for sure,
let us know how these plugs do in the long run, adidas, I'll be watchin!

[codajastal]

(I think Coda was bragging that he can search flea-bhey as he found the same thing from the same company for the  same price  )

Bite me 
When are you gonna send me my dampers!!!!!!
Or do I have to send the plane ticket first

[msforever]

Do those come pre-gaped or we have to gap them before use

[adidasguy]

Do those come pre-gaped or we have to gap them before use

I'm not sure if you're serious or funning me. 

There's nothing to gap.

[Badot]

I'm not quite sure if this is a serious question or not, but...

could we just cut the little J-hook off a standard spark plug? It looks about the same.

Or maybe it's one of those dealies that it uses more combustion space in the chamber and slightly raises the compression ratio?

I was honestly less skeptical about it before I saw the picture.

[adidasguy]

#5191

I'm not here to be a spark plug engineer. If it was as simple as cutting off the metal tab, I think someone would have done that 100 years ago.

I'm relating my experience with these plugs. I am impressed with them. They exceed my expectations.

That's all. Just relating what I found in hopes it may benefit someone else wanting a cheap, easy performance upgrade on their GS500.

I suppose you could cut the tab off and see what happens.

[CrownSeven]

Just got my set today and installed them this afternoon. 

My bike is rejetted, stock air box, and a Jardine exhaust. 

I never had any issues starting it when cold thanks to the rejet (no choke required anymore), so starting the bike with the new plugs is the same as it was before.

It does seem to run quieter though.

It also seems to accelerate smoother.  Under hard acceleration I used to get a stutter once in a while in the higher rpm's - that is now gone.

Would I buy them again? Yes I would, so far I'm pretty happy with them.  Its not a HUGE change for my bike, but a noticeable one, and one that I like. 

Thanks for the tip Adidas!   

[adidasguy]

#5192

Great! 
Glad they are working for you.

Acceleration is where I noticed the biggest improvement. Phenix is stock jets and air box. He really performed well last Saturday on a 160 mile ride with lots of fast twisties.

While starting is better - I agree that having better acceleration is really nice.

Monitor your mileage and see if you get any improvement. I did get better mileage. A few tanks will really tell.

I put them in Junior tonight and took him around the block. Much better. I do need to do some adjustments on him as the left carb seems very rich.

I will make before and after videos of Suzi. She has been running kind of crappy since the last time the dealer serviced her (she was under warranty and had a service contract). I'll do plugs first to see the difference before doing valves and carb syncing. It should be an interesting video. She is a 2009 and Phenix has a 2006 engine. I really notice how Phenix has so much pep when mashing on the throttle but Suzi just kind of lumbers along then speeds up. I hope she will accelerate like Phenix after changing the plugs. Valves & stuff will happen after the plugs as I want to see how the plugs improve poor performance in Suzi.

[bucket_chemist]

I really notice how Phenix has so much pep when mashing on the throttle but Suzi just kind of lumbers along then speeds up. I hope she will accelerate like Phenix after changing the plugs. Valves & stuff will happen after the plugs as I want to see how the plugs improve poor performance in Suzi.

I've got an '07 and I notice the same reluctance as you've got with Suzi. I had always just chalked it up to that being the way the bike was, but I am very curious to hear if you see an improvement on this with the new plugs. If you do, I might have to take the plunge as well!

[bigfatcat]

I'm not quite sure if this is a serious question or not, but...

could we just cut the little J-hook off a standard spark plug? It looks about the same.

Or maybe it's one of those dealies that it uses more combustion space in the chamber and slightly raises the compression ratio?

I was honestly less skeptical about it before I saw the picture.

An old hot rodder trick is to file away the 'j-hook' a bit so as to open up the center electrode - seemed to make a noticeable difference in the old cars I had. But you wouldn't want to do away with the ground electrode entirely - the plug pr'olly would not fire, at least consistently.

[Formori]

Having tried that old trick of filing down the cathode of the spark plug (supposed to increase airflow around the actual spark gap) and having snapped off one of those, then trying it in my engine (old 6-cylinder dodge) it doesn't fire at all.

Those plugs aren't designed for the increased voltage necessary for the much larger arcing that the Brisk plugs have, but with that in mind, I don't think there would be a significantly higher loading effect on the coils since the overall change in voltage (say, 1cm is 10KV, so go from ~3mm gap to ~1cm gap, voltage goes from 3kv to 10kv) has negligible change in current draw from the distributor (stator in bikes?).

I'd be interested to see some real world firing tho.

[mimikeni]

Addidasguy,
Your Amazon video review is Oscar material.  You are my new video idol!

[Funderb]

I don't think there would be a significantly higher loading effect on the coils since the overall change in voltage (say, 1cm is 10KV, so go from ~3mm gap to ~1cm gap, voltage goes from 3kv to 10kv) has negligible change in current draw from the distributor (stator in bikes?).

That makes plenty of sense, I was just wondering, having seen videos and things involving coil overheat and failure due to massive electrode plug usage that overloads the coil.


if you read the product specs:

On the surface of the spark plug insulator (between the center electrode and spark plug shell (ground) is a conductive titanium oxide compound in the shape of rings, bonded by a special patented process. Because these rings are conductive, the rings act as a "short cut" for the spark discharge on the way to ground.

Spark "travels" from the center electrode to the edge of the first conductive ring, uses the ring as a conductor, jumps out from the other edge of the first ring intot he edge of the second conductive ring, uses it as a conductor, and then the spark discharge "jumps out" into the spark plug shell (ground) to complete the secondary ignition circuit.

So, they've basically extended the ceramic insulator, and given the current a leap-frog path back to ground.

its perty interestin i think.